oldace Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 No you are top of the pile! dust yourself down and be positive god you would send me to drink you have given me a excuse to have a few at the Abbey tonight. Sounds like a plan, enjoy your evening Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 MJJ and Iversen should not of even been in a qualifier in the first place. So people keep saying about the old system being unfair this one now is even more so a closed shop In the space of one post you have told us that for some unfathomable reason MJJ and Iversen shouldn't have even had to try and qualify last season (its been shown already that you and indeed nobody else would have suggested they should have had a wildcard for 2012)... and then proceeded to complain its a closed shop.... This is the problem Sidney, its difficult to debate with you, because we don't know what your actual point is sometimes as so much is contradictory. No you are top of the pile! dust yourself down and be positive god you would send me to drink you have given me a excuse to have a few at the Abbey tonight. Noooo, this isn't fair. What an awful system you are operating, I wasn't given a fair chance to qualify. It was much better in the old days when I had the chance to be the No 1 Mug. Bring back GRW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 In the space of one post you have told us that for some unfathomable reason MJJ and Iversen shouldn't have even had to try and qualify last season (its been shown already that you and indeed nobody else would have suggested they should have had a wildcard for 2012)... and then proceeded to complain its a closed shop.... This is the problem Sidney, its difficult to debate with you, because we don't know what your actual point is sometimes as so much is contradictory. Noooo, this isn't fair. What an awful system you are operating, I wasn't given a fair chance to qualify. It was much better in the old days when I had the chance to be the No 1 Mug. Bring back GRW! To be honest I can't keep up with Sidney's ever changing opinions. I think at the moment he is "anti" qualifying rounds but that opinion was a few minutes ago so it could have changed back. Even his usual allies seem to have deserted him now, obviously they have seen the iceberg and got out fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eye Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 No you are top of the pile! What was the qualifying process and did we all get a chance? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 What was the qualifying process and did we all get a chance? No, couldn't do qualifying because Sidney is dead against it, well today he is anyway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Funny thing BWitcher is that i don't class talking to you as a debate!either i agree or i am shot down.My point is very simple really,you don't need to twist it?I don't think the qualifying system now is as good and fair as you make out what is wrong with only 8 automatically qualifying and maybe 7 places up for grabs is that a reasonable suggestion.And if say Iversen had missed out would you of said that would of been a massive injustice? To be honest I can't keep up with Sidney's ever changing opinions. I think at the moment he is "anti" qualifying rounds but that opinion was a few minutes ago so it could have changed back. Even his usual allies seem to have deserted him now, obviously they have seen the iceberg and got out fast. To be honest they have both got more sense than me because they can see that they would be losing a battle.Not because they are wrong because what,s the point when you post remember it is not just about being ALWAYS right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 So to clarify your point Sidney.. You don't believe the current system, which ensures as much as possible that the worlds best riders are in the GP, is fair... And your justification for it is.. "What if one of the worlds best riders were to miss out".. Again, it doesn't make sense. The system you are proposing would stand a bigger chance of less talented riders taking up GP slots. Do you seriously want to see Ales Dryml in a GP series?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 If only you knew what you were talking about this could be an interesting debate. Sadly with yourself and Ian just making up what is clearly nonsense it really would be futile to get into an exchange with yourself That plus the fact I don't want GRW to come along and make me look like a mug again!!!!! I'm still here Oldace. I don't consider my views on the GP Qualification System to be "nonsense". I don't agree with your arguments but I do not say they are "nonsense". I have just demonstrated how ELEVEN of the Riders in the GPs are pre-selected. The Top Eight ARE selected for the following year whether you like it or not. My sole argument is that ALL Riders should go through Qualifying Meetings and not be there as a RIGHT. Wild Cards - they are only selected to keep the hosting Country/Track happy. Finally the Nationality Card. Tai Woffinden gets his place because he is BRITISH - some Qualification Method that. From the start he has made in New Zealand it looks like he is worth his place - but that does not make the way he was selected RIGHT. Whilst I don't agree with you over this - I WILL listen to your arguments and I WILL try to understand where you are coming from. What I will NOT do is accuse you of talking nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I'm still here Oldace. I don't consider my views on the GP Qualification System to be "nonsense". I don't agree with your arguments but I do not say they are "nonsense". I have just demonstrated how ELEVEN of the Riders in the GPs are pre-selected. The Top Eight ARE selected for the following year whether you like it or not. I understand your views Ian, but.. it IS nonsense when you say the top eight are selected. That's the same as saying the top 11 in the old Inter Continental final were selected. The top 8 have met the qualification criteria for the following years GP. Whether you agree with that method (which you don't) is up for debate, but your interpretation of it is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I understand your views Ian, but.. it IS nonsense when you say the top eight are selected. That's the same as saying the top 11 in the old Inter Continental final were selected. The top 8 have met the qualification criteria for the following years GP. Whether you agree with that method (which you don't) is up for debate, but your interpretation of it is wrong. They have GIVEN the following year's Top Eight places to the Previous years Top Eight finishers. That doesn't seem like Qualifying to me BW. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 They gave 11 places in the World Final to the top 11 of the Inter-Continental Final. It is no different. They haven't just stumbled into a top 8 position, they've earned it over a 12 round series competing against the Worlds best riders... thus 'qualifying'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 They gave 11 places in the World Final to the top 11 of the Inter-Continental Final. It is no different. They haven't just stumbled into a top 8 position, they've earned it over a 12 round series competing against the Worlds best riders... thus 'qualifying'. The Top Eight from one year by being given the Eight Places in the following year are keeping out (possibly) someone who may have Qualified through Qualifying Rounds. I CAN see where you are coming from, but using the previous Season's Top Eight is wrong because I work in the Current Season. Last Season is past and gone - finished. A NEW GP Series SHOULD mean NEW Qualifying Rounds for ALL GP places. That way - NEW Season = NEW GP Year. If Gollob, Pedersen et al miss out, then I am sorry, but that is TOUGH. Speedway is a Sport. Sport is about Winning and Losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Correct it is. So apply your own argument to your own theory. The GP is the echelon of the sport and as much as possible it needs to contain the very best the sport has to offer.. not some random group of riders who are fortunate enough to negotiate qualifiers. It also may have escaped your attention, but we have just held a GP, exactly when would the qualifying take place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 That sort of things happens all the time.Just look at the World Cup,European Championships,Champions League etc.All teams have qualified from the previous year/season etc.The team that qualified might be quite different from the team that actually competes,but does that devalue the competition or winners?Not as far as i have heard even if at least in club competitions there might actually be a better team in Europe that season that didn't qualify because of a poor season previously.....nothing can be absolutely perfect,but these competitions and the Speedway GPs are as near to it as possible under the time constraints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Correct it is. So apply your own argument to your own theory. The GP is the echelon of the sport and as much as possible it needs to contain the very best the sport has to offer.. not some random group of riders who are fortunate enough to negotiate qualifiers. It also may have escaped your attention, but we have just held a GP, exactly when would the qualifying take place? I have my views and you have yours BW - it seems 'ne'er the twain shall meet'. I do respect your opinion - I just don't agree with you. I wouldn't like to fall out over it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 We won't fall out Ian, and I know exactly what you mean... but the system you would prefer to use simply isn't possible. As I said, the first GP is at the start of the season, qualification has to be from the previous year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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