BWitcher Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 top eight are picked? there i was thinking their qualification was based on performance over 12 meetings, more meetings than any rider going through the old qualifying route had to ride in. Not to mention in a higher calibre field.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 So are the Top Eight (Picked) Wild Cards (Picked) Nationality Fiddle (Picked) Eleven Riders PICKED so far - any advance on that? :mad: Yes. An old world final had 16 PICKED using your criteria. 11 picked on the strength of finishing in the top 8 - 11 of a series of fairly mediocre meetings and five picked on the strength of a few more even easier meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 You hate the qualifying route? You must have hated the World Final for years then! No because it was like the FA Cup everyone had a chance! a place for the little underdog to have his day unlike now different day different era i suppose.But the way it is now has the sport prospered not really still mainly poor facilities but can't take away the GPs is a ok product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 No because it was like the FA Cup everyone had a chance! a place for the little underdog to have his day unlike now different day different era i suppose.But the way it is now has the sport prospered not really still mainly poor facilities but can't take away the GPs is a ok product. Who doesn't have a chance these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Who doesn't have a chance these days? He keeps mentioning Mike Lee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) He keeps mentioning Mike Lee... Who doesn't have a chance these days? You know they don't! so get real before the 2 semi finals they had qualifiers so anyone within reason had a chance.Its different now we all know that to me it's a different competition it's like chalk and cheese the romance has gone.Wouldnt be so bad if Cardiff generated the same gate as Wembley not a hope them getting anywhere near the gates they got. Edited March 27, 2013 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 So just to confirm then, you think that the riders in the British semi final, going to the British final and then the first round of the GP qualifiers and so on means riders miss out? The Aussies do the same while the Poles and Danes have national GP qualifiers too. So again, who doesn't get a chance? Because to me it's pretty obvious everyone does. But unlike the good old days of 5 eastern block riders guaranteed a place despite not being good enough everyone gets the same chance these days, regardless of where you're from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 So just to confirm then, you think that the riders in the British semi final, going to the British final and then the first round of the GP qualifiers and so on means riders miss out? The Aussies do the same while the Poles and Danes have national GP qualifiers too. So again, who doesn't get a chance? Because to me it's pretty obvious everyone does. But unlike the good old days of 5 eastern block riders guaranteed a place despite not being good enough everyone gets the same chance these days, regardless of where you're from. What about the riders before the semi,s now are they all getting a chance then? if so i didn't realise that!!.Speedway did try a masters and i would of liked both a one off as well but that was unrealistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 What about the riders before the semi,s now are they all getting a chance then? if so i didn't realise that!!.Speedway did try a masters and i would of liked both a one off as well but that was unrealistic Be realistic, we're talking PL reserves with 2 semis, they're not going to make the GPs anyway. But let's assume they had 4 quarter finals, that's 64 riders and we're down to NL second strings but then what about NL reserves? What about midland league riders? What about me? There has to be a limit tbf. I can't speak for all nations but the main ones have some sort of GP qualifier. Now I accept for some rider GP qualification can start 2 years in advance and that's not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmuffe Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 There were a few problems with the old 13 heat format. 1 - Reserves only had 3 programmed rides (and they could be replaced in one of those back then)....second half ride ...with no second half then min 3 ride rule brought in i think(wasnt it?) 2 - Reserves often got false averages as they had heat 2 then just two more heats, often against an opposing reserve. Therefore a home reserve could get 3 1 1 from his 3 rides which is a 6.67 average and all he has beaten is the visiting reserves. I would check your 15 heat format if i were you ---doesnt that happen now.? 3 - 15 heats are better than 13 ,,,,,if its close. On the plus side, the last two races were often a heat leader and a solid second string and not just one heat with 4 top riders in Although the second half Rider of the Night heats were fun when I watched as a child, I preffered the junior meetings over six heats more after the meeting. Always remember in the 80's it was ften heard by the Wolves fans singing "Weve only come for the Juniors" after watching the main team get thrashed but the juniors would win most meetings. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Be realistic, we're talking PL reserves with 2 semis, they're not going to make the GPs anyway. But let's assume they had 4 quarter finals, that's 64 riders and we're down to NL second strings but then what about NL reserves? What about midland league riders? What about me? There has to be a limit tbf. I can't speak for all nations but the main ones have some sort of GP qualifier. Now I accept for some rider GP qualification can start 2 years in advance and that's not ideal. Ok now it wouldn't be viable that's one of the reason,s why it was scrapped but wouldn't it be great for some of the young uns to ride and learn against there elder statesmen.Did last year young Ritchie W miss out? average to low ( maybe he was in u 21s)? when he was on fire!who is to say he wouldn't of done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Ok now it wouldn't be viable that's one of the reason,s why it was scrapped but wouldn't it be great for some of the young uns to ride and learn against there elder statesmen.Did last year young Ritchie W miss out? average to low ( maybe he was in u 21s)? when he was on fire!who is to say he wouldn't of done well. As I said, some do lose out due to it going back to the year befores average for the GP series the next year (so 2 years). He did well last year but in reality, qualifying for the u21s was an achievement, he stood very little chance of getting past the GB final. As I said, there has to be a cut off and IMO its not really bad where it is and there will always be someone missing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 end of the day what is worse. someone rated say number20 out of England riders not getting a chance in the qualifiers? or a genuine world title contender missing out on a final because of injury or engine trouble at the wrong time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 We all know its got nothing to do with the systems/qualifiers/playoffs/world finals/tac rides/tac subs... if its different to what it used to be.. some people will complain. They forget the World Final was beginning to reach its sell by date and was no longer being staged at Wembley and attracting 80,000 crowds.. it was being staged at Pocking.. and getting 15,000. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 end of the day what is worse. someone rated say number20 out of England riders not getting a chance in the qualifiers? or a genuine world title contender missing out on a final because of injury or engine trouble at the wrong time? Well Sidney has argued for both. MJJ missing out because of an engine failure or two is now why is so dead against a qualifying process. It must never have happened in the past because up until this week he was decrying the (so called) lack of qualifiers. His opinion has turned full circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Well Sidney has argued for both. MJJ missing out because of an engine failure or two is now why is so dead against a qualifying process. It must never have happened in the past because up until this week he was decrying the (so called) lack of qualifiers. His opinion has turned full circle. MJJ and Iversen should not of even been in a qualifier in the first place,just as brutal as the one off system it isn't any better.If Iversen had missed out what a travesty that would of been and MJJ certainly had done anough through out the season.Thats the argument if they,re say was only 8 spots taken maybe another 1 for a wildcard leaving 7 fresh spots that would be fine so for me this system is no fairer than the old system worse if anything.If say the riders placed 9-16 had to ride a qualifier against the next best that would be fine.So people keep saying about the old system being unfair this one now is even more so a closed shop is Iversen a example he rode his balls off all year was outstanding yet might not of qualified.The old system was far from perfect but at least everyone was in the same boat,now the qualifying system is far from perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) MJJ and Iversen should not of even been in a qualifier in the first place,just as brutal as the one off system it isn't any better.If Iversen had missed out what a travesty that would of been and MJJ certainly had done anough through out the season.Thats the argument if they,re say was only 8 spots taken maybe another 1 for a wildcard leaving 7 fresh spots that would be fine so for me this system is no fairer than the old system worse if anything.If say the riders placed 9-16 had to ride a qualifier against the next best that would be fine.So people keep saying about the old system being unfair this one now is even more so a closed shop is Iversen a example he rode his balls off all year was outstanding yet might not of qualified.The old system was far from perfect but at least everyone was in the same boat,now the qualifying system is far from perfect. If only you knew what you were talking about this could be an interesting debate. Sadly with yourself and Ian just making up what is clearly nonsense it really would be futile to get into an exchange with yourself That plus the fact I don't want GRW to come along and make me look like a mug again!!!!! Edited March 28, 2013 by Oldace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 (edited) If only you knew what you were talking about this could be an interesting debate. Sadly with yourself and Ian just making up what is clearly nonsense it really would be futile to get into an exchange with yourself That plus the fact I don't want GRW to come along and make me look like a mug again!!!!! You are the biggest mug ever!Mr know it all what a miserable sod you are are you ever positive? GR and TWK can debate and they both respect others opinions unlike yourself the shame for you is that it's your way or no way i feel sorry for you really!! Edited March 28, 2013 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 You are the biggest mug ever!Mr know it all what a miserable sod you are are you ever positive? GR and TWK can debate and they both respect others opinions unlike yourself the shame for you is that it's your way or no way i feel sorry for you really!! I thought that was Bwitcher, have I got to the top with that one post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 I thought that was Bwitcher, have I got to the top with that one post No you are top of the pile! dust yourself down and be positive god you would send me to drink you have given me a excuse to have a few at the Abbey tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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