Conkers in Gravy Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Let me get this straight, the answer to the question "Which is better 13 or 15 heats?" is Chris Morton. . . or maybe Chris Harris. This thread is how I imagine the BSPA winter conferences must be like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Let me get this straight, the answer to the question "Which is better 13 or 15 heats?" is Chris Morton. . . or maybe Chris Harris. This thread is how I imagine the BSPA winter conferences must be like. 13 is better but we can't have it, there aren't enough riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Firsty, I personally have never claimed that standard of speedway was higher in the 80s than now , nor would I- i don't think any such claim can be justifiably made. Hyde Rd I would class as a "fair" track - most good riders rode it well, poor riders would be found out. Harris I agree would have ridden it well. utter bollocks, we have been here before and it is nothing of the sort I agree with this however I think that what Parsloes says on this particular point is spot on!! .....................and I do wish you hadn't mentioned the word 'Qualification' BW. It set me thinking (again)............................................................................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Let me get this straight, the answer to the question "Which is better 13 or 15 heats?" is Chris Morton. . . or maybe Chris Harris. This thread is how I imagine the BSPA winter conferences must be like. I bet you're fun down the pub It gets to 11pm, "Oi, mate, we can't discuss your holiday, the discussion at 7.30 was the football". Conversation and discussions move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Riders for (ex) like Crump,Autrey,Louis,Ashby,Wilson,E.Boocock for all there ability when looking back had average world final records. Tiger had a very good WF record: 4th. in his first; 3rd. in his second: unprecedented at the time for an English rider.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Tiger had a very good WF record: 4th. in his first; 3rd. in his second: unprecedented at the time for an English rider.. Not quite. His first WF was a5th then 4th then 3rd. Unprecedented ? Depends how you look at it. I would suggest Tommy Price 13th then 1st and Peter Craven 15th then 1st set the standard by reason of taking the top prize at the second attempt. Of course, if you extend "English" to become "British " then we get to include Freddie Williams, winner at his first attempt followed by 7th, second and 1st again. The more you juggle it the more you are stuck with the fact that you cannot compare era's. Just accept great riders for what they were. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conkers in Gravy Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I bet you're fun down the pub It gets to 11pm, "Oi, mate, we can't discuss your holiday, the discussion at 7.30 was the football". Conversation and discussions move on Excuse me for a bit of gentle p***-taking. Having returned to the subject after a few days, I was just amused at how far we'd moved on. As several people have said, it's virtually impossible to compare riders from different eras with different machinery, different tracks and different pressures, but I know one thing for certain, I'd pay good money to watch a Harris v Morton showdown on a well-prepared Hyde Road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Tiger had a very good WF record: 4th. in his first; 3rd. in his second: unprecedented at the time for an English rider.. Could of been better if a GP Format would of had a few more opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Excuse me for a bit of gentle p***-taking. Having returned to the subject after a few days, I was just amused at how far we'd moved on. As several people have said, it's virtually impossible to compare riders from different eras with different machinery, different tracks and different pressures, but I know one thing for certain, I'd pay good money to watch a Harris v Morton showdown on a well-prepared Hyde Road. There would have been only one winner in that Contest - and it wouldn't be Chris Harris. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Thats all well and good mate but on this one your view is that 2 + 2 = 5. Bwitcher is simply pointing out that it is 4, its not his opinion, he isn't trying to brainwash anyone, he is merely stating a fact. As for him having got round to agreeing with GRW, he has maintained all through this thread, and others, that the Elite League isn't as strong nowadays, its just that GRW was out of his depth in the debate and went on the schoolkid approach of trying to turn things around It is not FACT get that out of your thoughts,is it set in stone your opinion NO .As for GR out of his depth that is laughable,he to me has talked sense and he isn't one of these in the no it all brigades. As for you Oldace give BWitcher a ring and you will be fine have you not got your own opinion! out of his depth he made you and BWitcher look like mugs. Edited March 20, 2013 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 It is not FACT get that out of your thoughts,is it set in stone your opinion NO .As for GR out of his depth that is laughable,he to me has talked sense and he isn't one of these in the no it all brigades. As for you Oldace give BWitcher a ring and you will be fine have you not got your own opinion! out of his depth he made you and BWitcher look like mugs. Has the point that is being made got lost on you Sidney? Maybe one day it will click and you will feel such a fool. Until that day you will have to suffice with everyone else thinking your'e a fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) It is not FACT get that out of your thoughts,is it set in stone your opinion NO .As for GR out of his depth that is laughable,he to me has talked sense and he isn't one of these in the no it all brigades. As for you Oldace give BWitcher a ring and you will be fine have you not got your own opinion! out of his depth he made you and BWitcher look like mugs. He actually made the entire community of speedway fans look like mugs, none of us knew the true history of the sport and the reason clubs closed and heat formats were changed. Whilst clubs like Long Eaton, Bradford, Wimbledon, Canterbury, Cradley etc all closed due to houses being built, stadiums being sold etc.. the REAL truth was being concealed.. Until now, GRW has spilled the beans.. there weren't enough riders! Desperately the BSPA tried to take action to save more tracks by increasing the heats to 15 as it became clear there weren't enough quality riders to support a 13 heat format.. but alas it was too late.. and now we're down to just 10 teams.... Meanwhile he made us look like mugs with his explanation that Malcolm Simmons was better than Scott Nicholls because he won the World Pairs.. yep, a competition scrapped when Scott Nicholls was 15.. and a World Cup. May as well argue Darren Ferguson was a better footballer than Steven Gerrard because he won a league title one speedway fan argued.. What a mug he was! He also exposed what could potentially have been a race fixing scandal we never knew about.. the year the 15 heat format was brought in, all the top riders averages fell.. but GRW in his all knowing wisdom told us the old 13 heat format was harder.. so how did this happen? Easier format.. all the top guys averages fall... they can only be have been throwing races.. God Bless GRW for bringing this scandal to the attention of the world! Edited March 20, 2013 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Has the point that is being made got lost on you Sidney? Maybe one day it will click and you will feel such a fool. Until that day you will have to suffice with everyone else thinking your'e a fool No bigger one than you my friend, when i think of you the big Stevie Wonder hit comes to mind!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I just called to say i love you? what's your number sid so we can reciprocate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Not quite. His first WF was a5th then 4th then 3rd. Unprecedented ? Depends how you look at it. I would suggest Tommy Price 13th then 1st and Peter Craven 15th then 1st set the standard by reason of taking the top prize at the second attempt. Of course, if you extend "English" to become "British " then we get to include Freddie Williams, winner at his first attempt followed by 7th, second and 1st again. The more you juggle it the more you are stuck with the fact that you cannot compare era's. Just accept great riders for what they were. You are VERY annoying... You simply choose to ignore the words "at the time"... When Tiger finished on the rostrum in '75 he was the first Englishman to do since Peter Craven won the title in '62. Understand the point now..?! No-one minds debating (that's the point of the BSF after all..) but your attitude in arrogantly dissing those with different views and then deliberately misquoting really is extremely tiresome.. IF you have a point, try arguing it without twisting what others have posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 You are VERY annoying... You simply choose to ignore the words "at the time"... "unprecedented at the time" doesn't mean unprecedented in the 13 years leading up to it but in all of history up to that point. You've elaborated now and have a fair point but your first post was technically incorrect so it seems harsh to call someone annoying for reading your post the way most people would have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 In fact "at the time" is surely tautological when used to follow "unprecedented"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 In fact "at the time" is surely tautological when used to follow "unprecedented"? Utter garbage. 'Unprecedented at the time' means exactly what I (who wrote it!) meant it to bloody mean!! At the time, for well over a decade, they'd been not a bloody sniff of an English rider finishing on the rostrum. Louis did it and it was unprecedented at that time. That is, for a Speedway 'generation', no-one else had done it... Lads, I've a degree in English and am a writer - don't try and argue semantics with me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Lads, I've a degree in English - don't try and argue semantics with me... so do i parsloes. are we going to have to get out a measuring tape to see who has the biggest to settle this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 so do i parsloes. are we going to have to get out a measuring tape to see who has the biggest to settle this? Not really. I know what I meant and it was, in truth, fairly obvious... The problem is, you lot hunt in packs being supercilious, disparaging and arrogant and in some cases (to sidney mainly) plain rude, so you WANT to mis-read things and pick at the scab of each argument. Frankly, IF you have the worthwhile arguments you claim, you'd just engage in debate like the rest of us - in a normal way, exchanging views and thoughts... But then I suppose that wouldn't, in truth, be the BSF if that happened...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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