uk_martin Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The bikes have to be of a minimum all-up weight don't they? So what's the point ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The bikes have to be of a minimum all-up weight don't they? So what's the point ??? Lighter moving engine parts require less force to move them and will basically go faster. Nothing to stop someone adding weights to the underside of the bike. It's still the wrong thing to be doing for a sport which is struggling financially. I wonder what is happening with the rev limiter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The bikes have to be of a minimum all-up weight don't they? So what's the point ??? The parts where titanium is useful and mighty expensive are inside the engine and .only those who have little idea of it's uses are suggesting that its being used because it looks good . no one sees a titanium con rod , valve , or cam follower . but lighter parts inside the engine can help it to rev more . and allow for slightly longer valve openings . so increased fresh charge can flow though the engine and increase BHP . its not used as an overall wight saving device just so that specific engine parts are less open to mechanical weight forces . Lighter moving engine parts require less force to move them and will basically go faster. Nothing to stop someone adding weights to the underside of the bike. It's still the wrong thing to be doing for a sport which is struggling financially. I wonder what is happening with the rev limiter? exactly . what i said earlier . allow titanium to increase revs , then add a rev limiter to reduce the revs . win win if you are a supplier of either Titanium "Engine" parts or rev limiter , lose lose if you are a rider paying for this crap . to achieve nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dean - If the titanium didn't make any real difference it is still a level playing field, other than a few riders spending money for no reason. You've started that nobody wants it. So why doesn't nobody buy it? Surely the fraction of time made up in a race with titanium parts could also be made up by not over-locking or drifting a touch wide and leaving the door open on the inside of that's the faster line at the time? How much weight is saved with titanium parts? Enough to make it worth the expense rather than a rider losing a couple of pounds or finding another way to shed a few grammes? As I stated originally I don't have any technical knowledge so any question posed is genuine. I just can't see how it can make enough difference in a sport where so much time can be gained or lost with the right line in one corner and the wrong or a mistake in the next. That said I can understand an argument that GP riders don't make too many mistakes on super slick smooth tracks but even so... Trees - It'll take more than that to catch the rockets Ward and Holder ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Potter 2 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Cos they have to beat Ward!! Put sugar in his tank when he’s not looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The parts where titanium is useful and mighty expensive are inside the engine and .only those who have little idea of it's uses are suggesting that its being used because it looks good . no one sees a titanium con rod , valve , or cam follower . but lighter parts inside the engine can help it to rev more . and allow for slightly longer valve openings . so increased fresh charge can flow though the engine and increase BHP . its not used as an overall wight saving device just so that specific engine parts are less open to mechanical weight forces . exactly . what i said earlier . allow titanium to increase revs , then add a rev limiter to reduce the revs . win win if you are a supplier of either Titanium "Engine" parts or rev limiter , lose lose if you are a rider paying for this crap . to achieve nothing ..............apart from the Paying Public paying MORE for their Speedway. The Costs are always passed on - Rider to Promoter, Promoter to Supporters - and they wonder why Crowds are dropping. :rolleyes: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dean - If the titanium didn't make any real difference it is still a level playing field, other than a few riders spending money for no reason. You've started that nobody wants it. So why doesn't nobody buy it? Surely the fraction of time made up in a race with titanium parts could also be made up by not over-locking or drifting a touch wide and leaving the door open on the inside of that's the faster line at the time? How much weight is saved with titanium parts? Enough to make it worth the expense rather than a rider losing a couple of pounds or finding another way to shed a few grammes? As I stated originally I don't have any technical knowledge so any question posed is genuine. I just can't see how it can make enough difference in a sport where so much time can be gained or lost with the right line in one corner and the wrong or a mistake in the next. That said I can understand an argument that GP riders don't make too many mistakes on super slick smooth tracks but even so... yes what you are saying is correct in theory , but with speedway being mostly in the head ,riders will look for any advantage whatsoever and buy whatever the latest trick bit is ,if it works or not dosent matter , if chris holder came out in next years gp with a rubber glove over his front mudgaurd and says its a new design and wins the gp every rider will believe this is fact and buy one ,a few years ago they came out with adjustable headstocks on the frames ,half the riders hate them ,half dont even know how to use them but they all got them because a few riders like them , this placebo effect is not just in speedway its in all motorsport , they will see the guys at the top have got titanium and straight away they believe they are at a disadvantage ,its already in their head that they are beat ,and when that happen you wont beat them and thats why everyone will want it ,it dosent matter if it actually better performance or not ,its just believing that you are on the same level i am told the rev limiter will not be in till next season 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Moto gp and superbike are making parts that are standard eg ECU's and moto 2 even has standard engines that I believe are serviced by a central tuner and then given back by lottery. Look where that has got the sport, but speedway just can't see it! :'( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 yes what you are saying is correct in theory , but with speedway being mostly in the head ,riders will look for any advantage whatsoever and buy whatever the latest trick bit is ,if it works or not dosent matter , if chris holder came out in next years gp with a rubber glove over his front mudgaurd and says its a new design and wins the gp every rider will believe this is fact and buy one ,a few years ago they came out with adjustable headstocks on the frames ,half the riders hate them ,half dont even know how to use them but they all got them because a few riders like them , this placebo effect is not just in speedway its in all motorsport , they will see the guys at the top have got titanium and straight away they believe they are at a disadvantage ,its already in their head that they are beat ,and when that happen you wont beat them and thats why everyone will want it ,it dosent matter if it actually better performance or not ,its just believing that you are on the same level i am told the rev limiter will not be in till next season Dean please take the time to explain exactly what Titanium parts are going to be used , and be sure to explain the weight issue .and its performance enhancing side fully over say 20 pages for all those who still think that we are talking about lighter handebars and push bars etc . I am not the most techincally proficiient person but I do understand that a light and pretty conrod made form Titanium is far easier to move as are valves and valve gear . but there are some who keep posting the same misconception about the lightness of titanium being valuable only because it makes the bike lighter . they Especailly 21st heathen are doing my nut in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_minall Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Lighter moving engine parts require less force to move them and will basically go faster. Nothing to stop someone adding weights to the underside of the bike. Tony Rickaardson used to have purposefully underweight bikes and have slidable weights on the engine plates - I saw this at Wolverhampton when I was their mascot and he was riding for Poole - that man was a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Dean please take the time to explain exactly what Titanium parts are going to be used , and be sure to explain the weight issue .and its performance enhancing side fully over say 20 pages for all those who still think that we are talking about lighter handebars and push bars etc . I am not the most techincally proficiient person but I do understand that a light and pretty conrod made form Titanium is far easier to move as are valves and valve gear . but there are some who keep posting the same misconception about the lightness of titanium being valuable only because it makes the bike lighter . they Especailly 21st heathen are doing my nut in Damn, I thought that was my job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Put sugar in his tank when he’s not looking Nah, just enjoy his racing ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Tony Rickaardson used to have purposefully underweight bikes and have slidable weights on the engine plates - I saw this at Wolverhampton when I was their mascot and he was riding for Poole - that man was a genius. and didnt antonio lindback ride one of rickardsson's special frames and say it was the worst handling bike he had ever ridden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 I still don't get it. You hear of riders spending what it takes to shave a few ounces off the weight of their bikes, and then they go for a pizza or kebab on their way home from a meeting... You also see really big guys like Joe Screen, getting the sort of scores that waif-thin riders can only dream about. Why bother with titanium bits and bobs at grass roots level? Like pub darts players having titanium stems on their darts, at that level it won't make a ha'peth of difference. Skill is what is needed at lower levels. Having a bike as light as a feather won't help a Byron Becker become a world champion. Still, it's a free world to some degree. If twit-bits are allowed and people want to waste their money on them, let them go ahead. Just don't let the paymasters get suckered into increasing their pay to compensate, or our admission prices to pay for these follies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The weight of titanium rod and valves and any other other part used is only goin to be a small difference from the steel ones but it is claimed that it will produce an extra 1.5bhp which is nothing really but in a riders mind it will feel like a lap. An extra 1.5 bhp is useless unless it it can be put on to the track . It definatly wont be any use at a track like lakeside where 1.5bhp less is better but riders will still want titanium and they will have it and sadly the fans are the ones at the end of the chain who will end up paying for something they couldnt care less about and does nothing to enhance the sport 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackett Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Interesting article in last weeks Speedway Star with Peter Johns about the silencers and titanium. As we know the titanium is far more expensive and weighs less. BUT not a huge advantage , if riders tend to change carburettors regularly and don't know what they are doing with regards to the titanium valves - you could ruin them in one meeting. Mentioned that where you can shave the steel valves and use again once titanium dirty they are basically no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Titanium has been banned in speedway for many years . and I thought it was the SCB/BSPA who had relinquished the ban , but reading another thread its the FIM who have unbanned it , what the F*ck has the technical side of the poor relation sport got to do with the FIM .. they do nothing for the poor speedway and know even less about running it , so why cant the British, Polish ,Swedish , and Danish federations tell them to butt out and tell riders it's still banned . If the FIM don't like it . Tough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_minall Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 and didnt antonio lindback ride one of rickardsson's special frames and say it was the worst handling bike he had ever ridden One of those special frames that was custom built for Tony Rickaardson's riding style? It seemed to suit him pretty well Whilst we're on the subject of Tony's frames, I believe that he was the first rider to use a straight back loop whereas everyone else was still using the rounded type style - nice to see that every other frame manufacturer has now adopted this... The man was miles ahead of everyone else. Wasn't he also the first to use chain guides to stop them being thrown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 One of those special frames that was custom built for Tony Rickaardson's riding style? It seemed to suit him pretty well Whilst we're on the subject of Tony's frames, I believe that he was the first rider to use a straight back loop whereas everyone else was still using the rounded type style - nice to see that every other frame manufacturer has now adopted this... The man was miles ahead of everyone else. Wasn't he also the first to use chain guides to stop them being thrown? I think he was also the driving force and designer/seller of the Interspan type ignition boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 The weight of titanium rod and valves and any other other part used is only goin to be a small difference from the steel ones but it is claimed that it will produce an extra 1.5bhp which is nothing really but in a riders mind it will feel like a lap. An extra 1.5 bhp is useless unless it it can be put on to the track . It definatly wont be any use at a track like lakeside where 1.5bhp less is better but riders will still want titanium and they will have it and sadly the fans are the ones at the end of the chain who will end up paying for something they couldnt care less about and does nothing to enhance the sport 1.5bhp out of an 85bhp bike is actually quite a significant advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.