Uk Speedway Series

[orion]

So, they have hit middle ground as an experiment to get in on the sport. Why do a BSI at Reading, when you can lose at lot less at Premier League level if it goes wrong.

 

Premier League is potentially more cost effective as an experiment. It may not appeal to the Elite League snob, but could grab just as many fans.

 

 

 

Where have they said that?

 

I thought it was us on here that said it's illegal to withold trade and the MCF have used and proved it is the case in motocross.

 

Point me to a link if they have said it. It'll be interesting. Remember the MCF is the same as the SCB, just not recognised by the ACU, which appears to mean jack do dah from a legal perspective as proven.

 

Well what is all the fuss about if the meetings are going to go ahead ?

[Long Eye]

The evidence is in there statement ...they said they could run these meeting without asking and also there were 16 superstars, both have turn out to be untrue .

 

If you were that pro i doubt you would start putting out such statements without checking things out first

 

Why would the organisers have needed to ask the ACU, SCB etc when they are running under the MCF governing body? That would be like the owner of a Burger King branch asking MacDonalds if they could sell burgers.

[E I Addio]

These people at the MCF are a bit different, they have different ideas which they have used in other motorcycle sports, with friends in big companies.

 

 

As a matter of interest what different ideas? I have trawled the thread trying to see what they are going to do different but unless I have missed something nobody seems able to say what is going to be different.

 

It seems to me the bottom line is that speedway is four bikes going round and round. Over the years people have tried marching bands fireworks and all manner of things but the only thing that seems to bring the crowds in is good racing.

 

So, as a serious question what is going to be different to a PL individual meeting ?

 

Many meeting officials such as Clerk of the Course and machine examiners are SCB qualified but unpaid. Are the MFC going tom get these officials (whose loyalty is to a promotion ) to come in unpaid or are they going to get unqualified officials of their own to do the job ? What about referees ? Are they getting SCB men in or having unqualified refs of their own ? What about track curators and track equipment, where are they coming from ?

 

I am not trying to be controversial but as far as I can see nobody has discussed any of this and there seems to be an assumption that it will be alright on the night, but I stand to be corrected if anyone has the answers.

[orion]

Why would the organisers have needed to ask the ACU, SCB etc when they are running under the MCF governing body? That would be like the owner of a Burger King branch asking MacDonalds if they could sell burgers.

 

As i said i look forward to the first meeting then ..what date is it ?

[Tsunami]

Why would the organisers have needed to ask the ACU, SCB etc when they are running under the MCF governing body? That would be like the owner of a Burger King branch asking MacDonalds if they could sell burgers.

 

What would happen though if MacDonalds were the only affiliated organisation for serving burgers in this country. It's not an open market, for many reasons.

[Deano]

Well what is all the fuss about if the meetings are going to go ahead ?

 

BSPA not getting a cut perhaps? Under the illusion they own the rights to Speedway under the ACU/SCB. Think they have a monopoly and using the threat of black listing clubs and riders if they take part? Smacks of "Old Gentlemans Club" attitude.

[Tsunami]

As a matter of interest what different ideas? I have trawled the thread trying to see what they are going to do different but unless I have missed something nobody seems able to say what is going to be different.

 

It seems to me the bottom line is that speedway is four bikes going round and round. Over the years people have tried marching bands fireworks and all manner of things but the only thing that seems to bring the crowds in is good racing.

 

So, as a serious question what is going to be different to a PL individual meeting ?

 

Many meeting officials such as Clerk of the Course and machine examiners are SCB qualified but unpaid. Are the MFC going tom get these officials (whose loyalty is to a promotion ) to come in unpaid or are they going to get unqualified officials of their own to do the job ? What about referees ? Are they getting SCB men in or having unqualified refs of their own ? What about track curators and track equipment, where are they coming from ?

 

I am not trying to be controversial but as far as I can see nobody has discussed any of this and there seems to be an assumption that it will be alright on the night, but I stand to be corrected if anyone has the answers.

 

Agreed, and if it is not, the sport of speedway is the loser, and those with businesses/ money within the sport will have no say but maybe their businesses will be tainted by the action of others.

 

BSPA not getting a cut perhaps? Under the illusion they own the rights to Speedway under the ACU/SCB. Think they have a monopoly and using the threat of black listing clubs and riders if they take part? Smacks of "Old Gentlemans Club" attitude.

 

Or sensible concern for their sport/business.

[Long Eye]

What would happen though if MacDonalds were the only affiliated organisation for serving burgers in this country. It's not an open market, for many reasons.

 

If MacDonalds had a legal contract saying they were the only organisation allowed to sell burgers then Burger King would be breaking the law. Have the ACU got such a contract? it's been proved for many years that the ACU do not have the sole rights to Motocross, trials etc with the AMCA and MCF organising their own events. The Motorsport Association (MSA) do not have the sole rights to Karting in this country with many clubs running outside of their umbrella.

[iris123]

As a matter of interest what different ideas? I have trawled the thread trying to see what they are going to do different but unless I have missed something nobody seems able to say what is going to be different.

 

It seems to me the bottom line is that speedway is four bikes going round and round. Over the years people have tried marching bands fireworks and all manner of things but the only thing that seems to bring the crowds in is good racing.

 

So, as a serious question what is going to be different to a PL individual meeting ?

 

Many meeting officials such as Clerk of the Course and machine examiners are SCB qualified but unpaid. Are the MFC going tom get these officials (whose loyalty is to a promotion ) to come in unpaid or are they going to get unqualified officials of their own to do the job ? What about referees ? Are they getting SCB men in or having unqualified refs of their own ? What about track curators and track equipment, where are they coming from ?

 

I am not trying to be controversial but as far as I can see nobody has discussed any of this and there seems to be an assumption that it will be alright on the night, but I stand to be corrected if anyone has the answers.

Good post.Like i said there is so much we don't know about all this.I am neither for or against at the moment because we really know so little.I find myself arguing against those "against" because their arguments hold little basis in fact so it seems.Obviously i would guess one or two of those questions are answered.If they hire a track(say Leicester or rye),then staff/equipment would be supplied by that track?Not sure how it works at every track but would guess the promoter would not only gain in hiring the track out but also gain from car park and food/bar sales?Again going from what i/we have heard from promoters in the past they lose money everytime they open the gates.I think Matt Ford said that.We also have heard that some promoters want less meetings(Eastbourne for instance)but are generally forced to agree a certain amount.Now on the face of it letting someone else take up one of those nights must be a win-win situation?

[orion]

BSPA not getting a cut perhaps? Under the illusion they own the rights to Speedway under the ACU/SCB. Think they have a monopoly and using the threat of black listing clubs and riders if they take part? Smacks of "Old Gentlemans Club" attitude.

 

When if its all legal and aboad what have clubs and riders got to worry about ? surely take them to court for a certain victory .

[Deano]

As a matter of interest what different ideas? I have trawled the thread trying to see what they are going to do different but unless I have missed something nobody seems able to say what is going to be different.

 

It seems to me the bottom line is that speedway is four bikes going round and round. Over the years people have tried marching bands fireworks and all manner of things but the only thing that seems to bring the crowds in is good racing.

 

So, as a serious question what is going to be different to a PL individual meeting ?

 

Many meeting officials such as Clerk of the Course and machine examiners are SCB qualified but unpaid. Are the MFC going tom get these officials (whose loyalty is to a promotion ) to come in unpaid or are they going to get unqualified officials of their own to do the job ? What about referees ? Are they getting SCB men in or having unqualified refs of their own ? What about track curators and track equipment, where are they coming from ?

 

I am not trying to be controversial but as far as I can see nobody has discussed any of this and there seems to be an assumption that it will be alright on the night, but I stand to be corrected if anyone has the answers.

 

The ACU and the MCF do not see eye to eye. They are the same thing, just have different views/opinions.

 

The ACU do the same with motocross as it is doing through the SCB with speedway.

 

Motorcross under the ACU was in decline and got stale. The MCF came along had new ideas and relaunched motorcross under a different name. It is basically the same thing, bikes going around in circles, jumping and racing. The same riders race in either organisation, dependant on what licence they hold.

 

So what did the MCF do to motocross that suddenly draws in a global sponsor, in big arena's and has taken motorcross into the 21st Century. The ACU version of motorcross is still in decline as it was before the MCF came along.

 

Could Speedway with the MCF backing/help knowledge on growth go the same way? that is the point we are making.

 

What do we have to lose.

 

The ACU/SCB have dismissed it though... just how they dismissed the MCF at motorcross. Who's laughing at who in motorcross circles now?

 

Will we see another boom in our sport under the ACU? Will we see it under the MCF? Who knows, but is the current situation likely to get us there?

Edited February 10, 2013 by Deano

[moran]

a big point your missing here is motocross riders pay to ride and speedway riders ride for pay

[E I Addio]

The ACU and the MCF do not see eye to eye. They are the same thing, just have different views/opinions.

 

The ACU do the same with motocross as it is doing through the SCB with speedway.

 

Motorcross under the ACU was in decline and got stale. The MCF came along had new ideas and relaunched motorcross under a different name. It is basically the same thing, bikes going around in circles, jumping and racing. The same riders race in either organisation, dependant on what licence they hold.

 

So what did the MCF do to motocross that suddenly draws in a global sponsor, in big arena's and has taken motorcross into the 21st Century. The ACU version of motorcross is still in decline as it was before the MCF came along.

 

Could Speedway with the MCF backing/help knowledge on growth go the same way? that is the point we are making.

 

What do we have to lose.

 

The ACU/SCB have dismissed it though... just how they dismissed the MCF at motorcross. Who's laughing at who in motorcross circles now?

 

Will we see another boom in our sport under the ACU? Will we see it under the MCF? Who knows, but is the current situation likely to get us there?

 

In other words we don't actually know what is going to be different about it or where the ref and other (unpaid) officials such as Clerk of the Course are coming from.

 

The point is that I occasionally go over to Rye House, maybe once or twice a year. IF this thing was running and IF I could be persuaded it was something special I might just be persuaded to go to Rye and see it but I am not persuaded to go just because they apparently run good MX meetings. MCF have a lot more PR to do and a lot more questions to answer I before would be persuaded to support it, even if they jumped through all the hoops necessary to get it on in the first place. Running a speedway meeting is infinitely more complex than running an MX meeting and it would take a lot more information than is presently available before I could be persuaded that it was worth paying to watch. I wouldn't rule it out but I am far from convinced at the moment.

[Banjo]

I think some people are getting confused. These events are not being run by the MCF or Events 22 who run the Arena Cross and Red Bull events. The events are being run by the Courtney Brothers who have sidestepped the BSPA and got their insurance from the MCF. The MCF are just the governing body for MX & Enduro clubs.

[Deano]

In other words we don't actually know what is going to be different about it or where the ref and other (unpaid) officials such as Clerk of the Course are coming from.

 

The point is that I occasionally go over to Rye House, maybe once or twice a year. IF this thing was running and IF I could be persuaded it was something special I might just be persuaded to go to Rye and see it but I am not persuaded to go just because they apparently run good MX meetings. MCF have a lot more PR to do and a lot more questions to answer I before would be persuaded to support it, even if they jumped through all the hoops necessary to get it on in the first place. Running a speedway meeting is infinitely more complex than running an MX meeting and it would take a lot more information than is presently available before I could be persuaded that it was worth paying to watch. I wouldn't rule it out but I am far from convinced at the moment.

 

Good post. That is exactly where I am.

 

How I see it, from previous posters who know. Is the MCF give licence holders the same, but with less red tape and cost.

 

If riders can hold an ACU and an MCF licence in motorcross, then I guess it will be same for speedway. SCB affiliated referees, could also be MCF affiliated referees.

 

Perhaps the MCF speedway rule book will be a simple one pager, compared to the SCB one.

 

Perhaps under the MCF there are more opportunities for profit from both riders and promoters?

 

Perhaps we as customers won't even notice the difference between an SCB meeting and an MCF one.

 

After all it'll still be speedway.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Deano

[Tsunami]

If MacDonalds had a legal contract saying they were the only organisation allowed to sell burgers then Burger King would be breaking the law. Have the ACU got such a contract? it's been proved for many years that the ACU do not have the sole rights to Motocross, trials etc with the AMCA and MCF organising their own events. The Motorsport Association (MSA) do not have the sole rights to Karting in this country with many clubs running outside of their umbrella.

 

They are credited with being in charge of motor sports, and speedway is controlled by the BSPA acting under the auspices of the ACU with the SCB. They are the organisation that is deemed to be running motor sports, and who the government for example would consult with regarding motor sport matters. They may have an involvement with the issue of work permits, but that may have changed now, I'm not sure.

 

I think some people are getting confused. These events are not being run by the MCF or Events 22 who run the Arena Cross and Red Bull events. The events are being run by the Courtney Brothers who have sidestepped the BSPA and got their insurance from the MCF. The MCF are just the governing body for MX & Enduro clubs.

 

In which case they would surely know the legal situation, having been riders and associated with the sport for so many years. I am aware of possible involvement of two prominent posters on this thread, hence why I have not contributed before now.

[Deano]

I think some people are getting confused. These events are not being run by the MCF or Events 22 who run the Arena Cross and Red Bull events. The events are being run by the Courtney Brothers who have sidestepped the BSPA and got their insurance from the MCF. The MCF are just the governing body for MX & Enduro clubs.

 

Agree, be interesting to know what the MCF do differently to the ACU?

[Vince]

In other words we don't actually know what is going to be different about it or where the ref and other (unpaid) officials such as Clerk of the Course are coming from.

 

The point is that I occasionally go over to Rye House, maybe once or twice a year. IF this thing was running and IF I could be persuaded it was something special I might just be persuaded to go to Rye and see it but I am not persuaded to go just because they apparently run good MX meetings. MCF have a lot more PR to do and a lot more questions to answer I before would be persuaded to support it, even if they jumped through all the hoops necessary to get it on in the first place. Running a speedway meeting is infinitely more complex than running an MX meeting and it would take a lot more information than is presently available before I could be persuaded that it was worth paying to watch. I wouldn't rule it out but I am far from convinced at the moment.

 

Really? I have never organised a Speedway meeting but have been around enough to see how things are run and even helped out a bit at times.

 

I have been involved in a large number of MX meetings with up to 300 riders taking part. That's 300 riders who need to have entry forms filled out and acceptances sent before the meeting, 300 bikes to scrutineer, a track to build within specific guidelines with posts, rope, start gates, signing on/lap scoring facilities all needing to be transported to the site. Insurance cover to be sorted, medical cover arranged, toilets put in place, lapscorers and anything up to 50 marshalls arranged. Then there are the results from 20 to 30 races to be sorted and posted before finally awarding the trophies (that somebody had to arrange before the meeting) and dismantling everything to be transported back to where it came from.

 

I doubt getting 14 riders into a purpose built stadium with a permanent track is infinitly more complicated.

[uk_martin]

Agree, be interesting to know what the MCF do differently to the ACU?

 

One thing that will be very different...and that's that both the intended fixtures announced so far (give or take whether Leicester goes ahead or not) are set to take place on Tuesday nights.

 

Hmmm, a journey to the Hoddesdon Raceway for some Tuesday Night, Dry House speedway...OR maybe they will be even more different and actually water that track to give racing a chance....now maybe that would be worth going to see

[seanmuffe]

What on earth are you on about?

 

I have an antique hop and run an auction house.

 

Antiques, rooneys, porn being mentioned.............grannies rule ok!!!!!!!!!! where does the UK Speedway series come in......!!!!!!!!!!!