The Start Of The Decline

[Cockney Rebel]

Have just read an article about how riders today just treat the sport like a business and there are not so many "characters" about like there were in the "old days" and they forget as well as being sportsmen they are entertainers.

 

Oh by the way this was an article in a January edition of the Speedway Star from 1963 on Speedway Star Xtra online mag.

 

Things don't change much in Speedway do they?

[iris123]

Have just read an article about how riders today just treat the sport like a business and there are not so many "characters" about like there were in the "old days" and they forget as well as being sportsmen they are entertainers.

 

Oh by the way this was an article in a January edition of the Speedway Star from 1963 on Speedway Star Xtra online mag.

 

Things don't change much in Speedway do they?

But it wouldn't be wrong would it?Obviously if we want to be pedantic about this we just have to look at when speedway was at it height(post war period) and state the decline started just after.We know the sport went downhill after that into the period you mention when speedway was in 1965 re-organised and started to improve and then hit a peak again and then went into another decline,which we are currently not out of......

[Elephantman]

If you accept that the boom years were immediately after WWII in to the mid 1950's it is clear that arrival of televison is the single event that has changed the entertainment business. Not just speedway has been affected, the dogs, stock cars, dance halls, cinema audiences, bingo all affected by TV. Speedway had a revival in the late 1960's early 1970's; that may have been the supporters from the 40's & 50's taking their kids along, but pretty much it has been downhill ever since.

 

The problem now is that the core support is ageing and there dosen't appear to be enough money in the sport to relaunch or refresh the product. It is a concern.

[seanmuffe]

Hello, promoter. What's that?

 

No, I don't have any ideas to boost revenue. Here, aren't you're the promoter, can't you think of some? Anyway, I'm already in your stadium, why are you hounding me? Buy a what? A 50/50 ticket? Well, OK. AND a programme? Three quid? What is this, a ski resort? Oh OK give me one then. Anything else?

 

No sorry, I don't have any friends left. You see, after an eternity of careful badgering about how this amazing sport really was the best show in town, I then made half of them stand around for an hour and a quarter watching a tractor re-arrange dirt while the person who failed to book the ambulance, booked the ambulance.

 

Pardon?

 

No, they threatened me with an injunction so we don't speak now. However the other 50% heard the tale and when I convinced them it was a rare, nay freak, occurance they agreed to come. But then it...no, I don't want a raffle ticket, thanks... rained for 24 seconds at start time and we all had to go home leaving our cash on...yeh I'm sure and I've got a 50/50 thanks...deposit for another day. They won't be back though, which is a real shame because I'd spent fourteen hours going through the basics of speedway and they were definitely beginning to get it.

 

Except for that part where the rider can ride for any team who pays him. And that double points rule thing. And the fact the points limit is less than the points needed to win a match. All that trivial stuff, you know? Some members of the group felt slightly perturbed at the thought of requiring a miners lamp and a divers' helmet to visit the toilet but you know newbies - always finding something to complain about...

 

Now what's this you're pressing into my hand? A leaflet eh? O M G! This says you're really skint and on the brink of closing? Not again surely? Did you not tell me this last year? And the year before. Come to think of it have you not been telling me this since the day I first darkened your doors? Ah, but this time it's absolutely really for totally real is it? And you want me to help you out? Oh right, not help as such just to give you money. OK, so you want me, who has faithfully handed over the requisite readies at your turnstile since Adam was a boy, to give you even more? Hang on a minute here. How much does it actually cost to stage a meeting?

 

THUMP...

 

Sorry, passed out there. How much? For what? Everyone's a volunteer surely? Well, yeah we've all got utility bills and rent and maintenance to pay but where does the rest of it go? The riders' wages? Aye I know it's a dangerous sport and they deserve adequate compensation but there's only 500 folk in your midden - who does your budget, Imelda Marcos? So let me just see if I've got this correct. You want me to give you money over and above what I pay every week because you can't do your job and facilitate enough bodies to cover the outrageous wage bill you persist in paying when you don't, frankly, have a styrofoam cup to fill with yon stuff? And if I don't you'll take away my men on motorbikes? Hmmm, I'm not sure I care for your tone...

 

Tell you what. You do some promoting. Aww don't give me the petted lip routine you'll enjoy it once you've started. Why not talk to the guy at the bowling club that gets 400 through his door to watch a man dressed as Elvis singing, he seems to know how to get them in? And reduce that wage bill a bit and you won't need to keep begging the 500 for a handout. Oh, and stop talking about 'bringing in the kids' will you?

 

This is an adult sport in which adults compete for adult prize money run by, and I use this word advisedly, adults. They're not poncey holiday park entertainers - they're hard men, in a hard sport, where when the going gets tough, the tough punch you in the face even though you're still wearing a helmet. You can't get tougher than that.

 

Any sport peddling 'family' as a byword is either desperate or coughing its' last, doomed to eeking out a meagre existence amid deserted crumbling stadia to the decaying strains of the announcers' favourite band. Sell the sport to the grown ups and then worry about the weans later. No mummies and daddies (other parenting options are available) equals no kiddies but not vice versa. This isn't Crackerjack you're punt...oh, you've gone. Bye, promoter.

 

So in answer to the question posed by this thread - the day promoters stopped promoting and began huddling for warmth around the begging bowl. Bikes, tracks, telly, weather, stadia, music, prices. All irrelevant. The buck stops at the person who's sole purpose in speedway life is to get as many paying customers through the door and maximize revenue at every possible opportunity.

 

Happiness was once 40-38, now it's five quid off. Go figure.

 

Only an hour and a quarter!!! Some tracks that seems to be the norm when the ambulance is in situ anywhere!!!!

[keef]

Attendances started falling in the 80s when the Danes and Yanks took over from the Brits as top dogs.

 

Admission prices have gone up faster than inflation, but facilties have hardly improved. Britain is now well behind Poland and Sweden for quality of line-ups and training facilties.

[speedy bill]

some of the rules today are ruining the sport there are two many god its four blokes going round a track try to keep it simple and easy to understand.there are no interval attrractions anymore and allot of delays between races, and riders allowed to return to the pitts when in most cases they should be sent stright back to the starts,speedway should be run slicker and the meeting kept moving,i know some times delays can not be helped.what is the point of having a interval when there is only 4 or 5 races to go,use if a rider as two on the trot for tractor racing or when a delay can not be helped. get some more war cries going get the crowd involved its to quiet at speedway these days no atmosphere at most tracks bring back the old announcer get the crowd going lets liven things up

[Cockney Rebel]

But it wouldn't be wrong would it?Obviously if we want to be pedantic about this we just have to look at when speedway was at it height(post war period) and state the decline started just after.We know the sport went downhill after that into the period you mention when speedway was in 1965 re-organised and started to improve and then hit a peak again and then went into another decline,which we are currently not out of......

 

No not wrong Iris123 but, I did find it amusing that it has been mentioned, quite understandably, that there are no characters in the sport nowadays compared to years ago and years ago they were saying the same thing.

 

I do think that speedway because of it's, for want of a better word "originality" will never have the mass support that us hardcore fans would like and that it will always have good times and bad. Some bikers don't see it as a bike sport because they only go round in circles and not that quickly compared to MotoGP or Superbikes and you can't buy a GM or a Jawa road bike.Before anyone leaps down my throat I know Jawa used to make a road bike but don't know if they still do. Non bike fans see as just a noisy dirty biker sport and always think the stadium will be packed with Hells Angels and their like. Like most on here who have all made valid points in trying to pinpoint the decline I have no idea how to stop the yo-yoing. For what it's worth I don't think there is a decline in Global speedway it's just this country and I think that can be largely put down to two things. The fall of the Iron curtain enabling Polish Speedway to really take off and, I know this is old ground and not every body will agree, the increasing impact of the ever larger Grand Prix. Riders cannot compete in all the leagues and the Grand Prix so they leave out the least profitable, the poor old Elite League.

 

If only I had a magic wand.

[foamfence]

No not wrong Iris123 but, I did find it amusing that it has been mentioned, quite understandably, that there are no characters in the sport nowadays compared to years ago and years ago they were saying the same thing.

 

I do think that speedway because of it's, for want of a better word "originality" will never have the mass support that us hardcore fans would like and that it will always have good times and bad. Some bikers don't see it as a bike sport because they only go round in circles and not that quickly compared to MotoGP or Superbikes and you can't buy a GM or a Jawa road bike.Before anyone leaps down my throat I know Jawa used to make a road bike but don't know if they still do. Non bike fans see as just a noisy dirty biker sport and always think the stadium will be packed with Hells Angels and their like. Like most on here who have all made valid points in trying to pinpoint the decline I have no idea how to stop the yo-yoing. For what it's worth I don't think there is a decline in Global speedway it's just this country and I think that can be largely put down to two things. The fall of the Iron curtain enabling Polish Speedway to really take off and, I know this is old ground and not every body will agree, the increasing impact of the ever larger Grand Prix. Riders cannot compete in all the leagues and the Grand Prix so they leave out the least profitable, the poor old Elite League.

 

If only I had a magic wand.

Polish speedway has declined dramatically, they used to claim it was bigger than football but it's nowhere near it now, look at the crowd figures they publish in the Speedway Star results, they are now a fraction of what they used to be, which is probably the reason why some clubs have gone bust and some riders never got paid. It's still a lot bigger than here but it certainly has problems. Some riders have indicated that they would consider the Elite league if there were less fixtures or they could share places (as Darcy Ward suggested). When you have Premier League teams made up almost entirely of overseas riders, something is wrong, other countries discriminate in favour of their own riders and we should do the same.

[Jonny the spud]

Last year I made a return to several UK speedway tracks ofter a 23 year absence, same 4 guys racing round, Same noise, (roughly), same atmosphere .

 

Down side....... Same stadium facilities, same music (really), same amateurish "promotion", no other interval entertainment. In short nothing new on offer.

 

That's it basically, i may be missing something but i cant think of anything in the last nigh on quarter of a century that's a great improvement for the customer to make a night out more enjoyable or appealing to a new audience. Now look at other forms of motorcycle sport and see what's happened in the last 20 odd years. Quite sad really .

[HAMMER57]

if we lose Sky coverage????????? Will armchair fans want the real deal???????? Who knows but we need to do something before our beloved sport dies in front of our eyes............

 

I like you do not want too see are beloved sport die so I pay entry for me and the wife to watch the Hammers

as I have done for many years.

I cannot get to away matches so get my speedway fix on sky when I don,t get to Arena Essex

Will i miss it if speedways not on sky yes

But i think we may need to go back to basics a little and have teams only paying out what they can afford

yes we may lose a few top riders but new ones will come up the ranks.

Lets try and build our sport up again and be positive I for one would rather see 4 up and coming riders

than no speedway at all.Nothing beats the thrill of a live meet

RP

 

Opps messed that post up sorry lol

[a4poster]

A few things:

• Losing TV Coverage - i.e World of Sport - removed it from the Public spotlight.
  
• News of the World race fixing story.
  
• Lack of money re-invested into Stadia when at its peak Speedway could have bought many of the grounds they were racing in.
  
• Under 'Thatcher' - she encouraged a Society by various means (i.e, share issues, starting up there own Businesses etc) where many no longer considered themselves as Working Class and to good for a working mans sport.
  
• Other competition for the leisure market.
  
• The Not In My Back Yard syndrome, where everyone wants facilities as long as it is not near them!
  
• To many hangers-on & too many people taking money out without putting much back in.
  
• Promotors who do not promote - just open the gates and expect people to turn up.
  
• Promotors using Speedway as a secondary business.
  
• Reliance on an ageing fan base.
  
• And perhaps one of the biggest problems for Speedway today has been the uprising of the Green movement.
  

Edited January 18, 2013 by a4poster

[Cockney Rebel]

Polish speedway has declined dramatically, they used to claim it was bigger than football but it's nowhere near it now, look at the crowd figures they publish in the Speedway Star results, they are now a fraction of what they used to be, which is probably the reason why some clubs have gone bust and some riders never got paid. It's still a lot bigger than here but it certainly has problems. Some riders have indicated that they would consider the Elite league if there were less fixtures or they could share places (as Darcy Ward suggested). When you have Premier League teams made up almost entirely of overseas riders, something is wrong, other countries discriminate in favour of their own riders and we should do the same.

 

Not wishing to be nasty but perhaps a decline in Poland might make some riders consider GB as a better option at least they know (hopefully) they will be paid regularly.

 

The problem with riders sharing is, will they want twice the money cos they're only doing half the meetings. I'm not totally against the idea if it means some of the big names coming back to these shores but boy it would need to be worked properly and every loophole looked into.

[foamfence]

Not wishing to be nasty but perhaps a decline in Poland might make some riders consider GB as a better option at least they know (hopefully) they will be paid regularly.

 

The problem with riders sharing is, will they want twice the money cos they're only doing half the meetings. I'm not totally against the idea if it means some of the big names coming back to these shores but boy it would need to be worked properly and every loophole looked into.

So a rider doesn't ride here, he is offered a place shared with another rider who doesn't ride here, they both decide to take it as it means more meetings, but not too many more to not be feasible in their busy schedule......And you say "they want twice the money"! Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that. It doesn't really affect riders already here, with the possible exception of Ward and Holder and I couldn't see Poole paying them each what they now get, for half the meetings.

Anyway, it's all still just theory. You're not being "nasty", you are quite right and fully entitled to express your opinion.

My own opinion is, I wish we would go it alone, I'm sick of every team being full of foreigners and sick of a Grand Prix system where some of the riders are selected on political grounds rather than ability, and where one country has three rounds. I doubt I will make myself popular with that opinion but never mind.

[The White Knight]

So a rider doesn't ride here, he is offered a place shared with another rider who doesn't ride here, they both decide to take it as it means more meetings, but not too many more to not be feasible in their busy schedule......And you say "they want twice the money"! Sorry, I don't understand the logic of that. It doesn't really affect riders already here, with the possible exception of Ward and Holder and I couldn't see Poole paying them each what they now get, for half the meetings.

Anyway, it's all still just theory. You're not being "nasty", you are quite right and fully entitled to express your opinion.

My own opinion is, I wish we would go it alone, I'm sick of every team being full of foreigners and sick of a Grand Prix system where some of the riders are selected on political grounds rather than ability, and where one country has three rounds. I doubt I will make myself popular with that opinion but never mind.

 

You are a top man in my book. :approve:

[Mixy230]

Now to make myself unpopular!

In reality Speedway is a minority sport (Even in the UK) Few countries better the UK for speedway Poland? Sweden?

Professional riders can only be full time professional if they make their living from Speedway, this means that they ride for x2 x3 teams in as many countries which dilutes there commitment to the team!

As Poland seems to pay more over the last few years we can all see where the commitment for many has gone.

More riders need to be semi pro! See it as a paid for hobby! I hope/think most started out in Speedway/Grasstrack for fun, entertainment etc The money is not there for everybody to be a full time pro!

 

When riders had a TEAM or maybe at a push x2 teams they used to ride Longtrack/Euro Grasstrack/big Grasstrack meets in the uk for extra money/fun/ego! Now they ride for 3 teams!

 

I honestly feel that we can not afford in EL/PL as many full time riders as there are! (Should it be as there are or as there is?) lol

 

NL = Hobby with some income / expenses

PL = Semi Pro + Other work

EL = Pro + some semi pro riders

 

Once you get passed the top 50? riders in the world is there realy enough money in the Speedway world to have riders 51 to 200 being pro?

 

In Motor Racing How many Pro drivers in the world? how many amatuers who spend and do it for fun?

In Short Circuit Motor racing how many pros in the UK ? how many do it for fun?

In Darts how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it?

In Snooker how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it?

 

The Speedway world is realy not big enough / rich enough to sustain the riders pay!

 

Its only my opinion.

 

M

[martinmauger]

Now to make myself unpopular!

In reality Speedway is a minority sport (Even in the UK) Few countries better the UK for speedway Poland? Sweden?

Professional riders can only be full time professional if they make their living from Speedway, this means that they ride for x2 x3 teams in as many countries which dilutes there commitment to the team!

As Poland seems to pay more over the last few years we can all see where the commitment for many has gone.

More riders need to be semi pro! See it as a paid for hobby! I hope/think most started out in Speedway/Grasstrack for fun, entertainment etc The money is not there for everybody to be a full time pro!

 

When riders had a TEAM or maybe at a push x2 teams they used to ride Longtrack/Euro Grasstrack/big Grasstrack meets in the uk for extra money/fun/ego! Now they ride for 3 teams!

 

I honestly feel that we can not afford in EL/PL as many full time riders as there are! (Should it be as there are or as there is?) lol

 

NL = Hobby with some income / expenses

PL = Semi Pro + Other work

EL = Pro + some semi pro riders

 

Once you get passed the top 50? riders in the world is there realy enough money in the Speedway world to have riders 51 to 200 being pro?

 

In Motor Racing How many Pro drivers in the world? how many amatuers who spend and do it for fun?

In Short Circuit Motor racing how many pros in the UK ? how many do it for fun?

In Darts how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it?

In Snooker how many pros in the world? How many semi pro trying to make it? How many amateurs trying to make it?

 

The Speedway world is realy not big enough / rich enough to sustain the riders pay!

 

Its only my opinion.

 

M

Thanks, you just saved me a lot typing. F2 Speedway is a good idea, other motorsports have categories according to cost, ability, etc.

 

Nutshell. as above but also:

 

F3 Speedway : Amateurs / NL, power restrictions / standard engines & parts, no tuning.

F2 Speedway : PL, as above but more power / slight tuning permitted.

F1 Speedway: EL + GPs + SWC, pretty much anything goes - within the current regulations.

 

It isn't for me to say how such regulations would be policed but other motorsports manage to do it....

[foamfence]

Thanks, you just saved me a lot typing. F2 Speedway is a good idea, other motorsports have categories according to cost, ability, etc.

 

Nutshell. as above but also:

 

F3 Speedway : Amateurs / NL, power restrictions / standard engines & parts, no tuning.

F2 Speedway : PL, as above but more power / slight tuning permitted.

F1 Speedway: EL + GPs + SWC, pretty much anything goes - within the current regulations.

 

It isn't for me to say how such regulations would be policed but other motorsports manage to do it....

The only problem with that (that I can see) is that riders switching between different levels, would actually need more equipment than now. I think a lower formula would need to be run independently from what ever was classed as above it.

[MattK]

Thanks, you just saved me a lot typing. F2 Speedway is a good idea, other motorsports have categories according to cost, ability, etc.

 

Nutshell. as above but also:

 

F3 Speedway : Amateurs / NL, power restrictions / standard engines & parts, no tuning.

F2 Speedway : PL, as above but more power / slight tuning permitted.

F1 Speedway: EL + GPs + SWC, pretty much anything goes - within the current regulations.

 

It isn't for me to say how such regulations would be policed but other motorsports manage to do it....

 

Don't the wages/allowances in each league effectively regulate that already?

[Mixy230]

MattK

Not with rich daddies paying for more kit than skill level.

If there were regulations / limits it would allow at least a (Reasonably) level field where skill would show through over glitter stickers and nice leathers.

Then if someone showed potential at NL level and they were approached by a PL outfit there increase in income (potential income) may entice them up a level. (Nobody has to go up a level if they are happy where they are) Their kit would be saleable as its proven and done well (hence being spotted) The next tear would have looser regs (more power/less weight etc)

 

I could go out now and buy loads of decent kit & a van etc (Its not that expensive) but it does not make me a pro speedway rider!

Just as now I have a racing car in the garage! But I am far from a pro race car driver! (Far far from being so!!!!!!!!) I pay for it all because I want to!

 

I think all we are saying as that some speedway riders expect to much (Money & sponsorship) maybe far more than their skill status in the sport warrants or can afford!

 

M

[ford]

The only problem with that (that I can see) is that riders switching between different levels, would actually need more equipment than now. I think a lower formula would need to be run independently from what ever was classed as above it.

 

If restrictions were used like carburetor restricters and rev limiters, it would'nt be to hard to upgrade or downgrade the engine.