Old Race Formats

[daveallan81]

Has there ever been a UK team (inc. league, cup, international, challenge etc) meeting format where the rules allowed a rider to take 8 (or more) rides?

 

And can anyone think of any team format used that required 9 (or more) riders per side? For example, I remember King's Lynn used to stage a challenge meeting called a 'double decker' over 20 (?) heats - was it with 10 man teams?

 

Any help appreciated - I'm constructing Excel spreadsheets for use in archiving results and want to cover all the bases, or at least as many bases as possible!

[TeamBouchard]

From memory, I think that during the 1976 season (13 heats), the new rider-replacement rules in the 1st Division allowed the possibility of 8 rides - in 13 heats!

 

Certainly I saw Sheffield's Reg Wilson take 8 rides at Leicester in the summer of that season - 4 programmed rides, 3 r/r rides and a tac sub ride.

 

I think the rule was changed the following season to prevent this.

[daveallan81]

Interesting...thanks TB.

 

I've had a look through some results sheets for 1976 on the Speedway Researcher website (unfortunately the meeting you mention isn't listed yet) but haven't found anything similar. 7 rides is in evidence with multiple R/R rides and opportunities for a TS that weren't taken, but no 8's so far.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Well one fact i do know about the various formats is that Crayford hold the record winning score in two of them!

Most know that the Kestrels 1980 65-12 win over Workington was the 13 heat record but two years later in the 16 heat format Crayford set the record for THAT format beating Milton Keynes 76 -20 :approve:

[Grachan]

I remember Finn Thomsen getting 21 from 8 rides at Swindon that year. Four programmed rides, 3 R/R rides and a tactical substitute. A reserve could have possibly had 9 rides? Three programmed, 2 reserve replacements, 1 tactical substitute and 3 R/R? I'm not sure on that, but I think a reserve could have had that.

[arnieg]

From 'Tears and Glory' 1976 chapter:

 

Bernie Leigh also upped his average by over a point, overtaking Bengt Jansson for the

third heat leader spot. His best score of the season came when guesting for Hackney at Hull –

15+1. Sadly he got a duck when he returned to Hull in Racers colours. He did score 12+3 for

Racers at Newport – from eight rides. Speedway is littered with bizarre rules, and 1976's rider

replacement rule comes into that category. When operating rider replacement the rider

immediately above in the averages could take one ride, and any rider with an average below

the others. This meant Leigh could have three of Jansson's rider replacement rides, as well as a

tactical substitution. He rode in heats: 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 and 12.

[mickthemuppet]

I am sure the Dutch rider Henry Kroeze scored a 24 point maximun in a league match.

[daveallan81]

Arnieg, many thanks for that piece.

 

I ploughed through the results I could find for 1976 and found another 8 ride Reg Wilson performance at Hull and Carl Glover in the return match also took 8 rides so plenty of examples to confirm this slightly strange rule. That Henny Kroeze 24 pointer rings a bell as well.

 

No nine ride finds so guessing there was an 8-ride limit? Tellingly, perhaps, the templates used on some of the Speedway Researcher scorecards carry 8 score boxes so maybe something in that.

 

The only programmes from 1976 I have are from National League and they all only carry the 6 score boxes so was this rule for British League only, and for one year only?

 

And as if to mock my efforts so far, in the course of my meander through the result sheets I found a 4TT challenge where Tom Owen took 7 rides! If anyone has any recollections of riders taking an innordinate number of rides in a 'challenge' meeting I'd love to hear them.

[Grand Central]

I am sure the Dutch rider Henry Kroeze scored a 24 point maximun in a league match.

 

Henny Kroeze got a 21 point max from seven rides at The Shay in 1976. This followed a 20 point haul just a few weeks before.

[stratton]

I remember Finn Thomsen getting 21 from 8 rides at Swindon that year. Four programmed rides, 3 R/R rides and a tactical substitute. A reserve could have possibly had 9 rides? Three programmed, 2 reserve replacements, 1 tactical substitute and 3 R/R? I'm not sure on that, but I think a reserve could have had that.

On a oversized engine i believe?

[Knowle]

With reference to the query re teams of more than 8 riders I remember the 1950 Division 1 Spring Cup which had 10 man teams over 20 heats with 4 reserves on each side. my programme for April 21st has Ronnie Moore at no.10 for Wimbledon (2 rides no points).

[Grachan]

On a oversized engine i believe?

 

Really? I don't remember that. He certainly was going some. I remember him doing a lap of honour with a big grin on his facew and getting booed mercilessly though.

[Leicester Hunter]

Arnieg, many thanks for that piece.

 

I ploughed through the results I could find for 1976 and found another 8 ride Reg Wilson performance at Hull and Carl Glover in the return match also took 8 rides so plenty of examples to confirm this slightly strange rule. That Henny Kroeze 24 pointer rings a bell as well.

 

No nine ride finds so guessing there was an 8-ride limit? Tellingly, perhaps, the templates used on some of the Speedway Researcher scorecards carry 8 score boxes so maybe something in that.

 

The only programmes from 1976 I have are from National League and they all only carry the 6 score boxes so was this rule for British League only, and for one year only?

 

And as if to mock my efforts so far, in the course of my meander through the result sheets I found a 4TT challenge where Tom Owen took 7 rides! If anyone has any recollections of riders taking an innordinate number of rides in a 'challenge' meeting I'd love to hear them.

The R/R regulations as used in the National League were adopted by the British League in 1978, that is, just one per rider, per match, giving a maximum of six rides. Can't remember if reserves could take seven if one was a Tactical Substitute.

 

I have a copy of Hackney's programme for their opening fixture of the 1977 season, and that programme dedicates one whole page to the Rider Replacement regulations for that season - they were quite complicated. It was also the only season I believe, where a permanently short-handed team, in this case White City, used the aforementioned regulations to win the British League title. That was probably why more simpler rules were used from the following season.

 

Here's a good one for your 'challenge' meeting records. On the 24th October 1979, Dennis Sigalos took seven rides for a USA team at Hull, scoring 20 points out of a total of 29, USA using R/R (presumably for the injured Kelly Moran) in a 4TT! The final score was Hull 31, USA 29, Sheffield 24, Exeter 12. Only in speedway could things like that happen!

[Humphrey Appleby]

And can anyone think of any team format used that required 9 (or more) riders per side?

 

Yes, I believe there was a trial 10-a-side match staged at Wolverhampton about 20 or so years ago. I think it was some sort of hybrid senior/junior match as meetings were at that point 15-heats followed by a 5/6-heat junior match.

[daveallan81]

Leicester Hunter, thanks for that info. The Sigalos meeting is on the researcher site - Bobby Beaton bust his max in the last heat. Produces a weird looking scorechart but exactly the kind of thing I was looking out for. Thanks again for that.

 

The 10-a-side match finished 60 all according to the site. This looks similar to the King's Lynn meeting I mentioned in my first post. I note both sides had to use R/R!

 

I'm up to over 20 different formulas in the 'regularly used' category. The old NL pairs is the daddy of them all so far, 32 qualifiers plus 4 reserves over 27 heats. I'm discounting two-day meetings of and double headers of course. See if you can add to this list - it's a Sunday in the close season, what else is there to do?

• 2TT 12 Heats UP TO 8 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 2TT 13 Heats UP TO 8 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 2TT 14 Heats UP TO 8 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 2TT 15 Heats UP TO 8 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 2TT 16 Heats UP TO 8 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 2TT 18 Heats UP TO 9 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 2TT 20 Heats UP TO 10 RIDERS PER TEAM
  
• 3TT 12 Heats 4+RESERVE 2 TEAMS PER HEAT
  
• 3TT 18 Heats 6+RESERVE 2 TEAMS PER HEAT
  
• 3TT ?? Heats ?? Riders ALL 3 TEAMS IN EACH HEAT (I think they ran this at Swindon - one side had 2 riders, other 2 sides had 1 in each heat - anyone has the format I'd be most greatful)
  
• 4TT 16 Heats 4+RESERVE FLOATING HELMET COLOURS (a la old NL format)
  
• 4TT 16 Heats STATIC HEL COLS (World Team Cup etc)
  
• 4TT 16 Heats 2 TEAMS EACH HEAT
  
• 4TT NL FINALS TRAD 8 TEAMS 3 X 8 HEATS
  
• IND 12 Heats 12 RIDERS 2SF & F
  
• IND 15 Heats 16 RIDERS 2SF & F
  
• IND 20 Heats TRADITIONAL
  
• IND 20 Heats 2SF & F
  
• IND 20 Heats 1SF & F
  
• IND 20 Heats 32 RIDERS
  
• PAI 21 Heats TRADITIONAL
  
• PAI 15 Heats 6 PAIRS
  
• PAI NL FINALS 36 riders
  
• PAI PL FINALS 20 RIDERS
  

[daveallan81]

Anyone interested in what I've been creating can take a peek here

 

https://www.dropbox....c259/EABcE0sfjH

 

There are PDF examples of completed sheets in different formats and a working but not 100% finished 13 heat excel sheet if you want to have a play There's also a wee instruction file on how to complete the sheet.

 

If you're interested in the working archive sheets then hang on to the above link because I'll be posting them in there in due course, along with sheets for this seasons UK leagues, plus Poland and Sweden.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help so far

[Sotonian]

The Norwich v Russia 18 Heat challenge match in 1964 is worth a mention. Due to a fixture mix-up, the Russian team only contained 4 riders who it was agreed could take 9 rides each. Not only were man and machine up to the task, they even won the match 55-53.

[daveallan81]

Thanks Sotonian. That's the first 9-rider I've heard of. On the meeting notes on Researcher site it says "Russians double booked so only 4 riders arrived for this match. Fortunately the whole team didn’t arrive as we would probably have been swamped if they had." Perhaps the Stars pre-empted the rider situation because the notes also add "This meeting originally advertised as a Best Pairs Event."