iris123 Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 hi just to make a point on pascal with his availabilty to ride in the N/L he's just as much entitled to ride as a brit as his mother is english & would come in on an average of 3 as long as he has'nt rode in a dutch national meeting so it's nothing to do with bending any rules, at least his mother is english, unlike some aussies that come over & want to use patriality because of grandparents they probably haven't even met, so good look to pascal. But as he was Dutch Champion back in about 2006 and has been riding since 2003 when he was 13th in the Dutch Championship surely he has ridden in a Dutch national meeting more than a few times? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 The strange concept of patriality relates to grand-parents doesn't it... This young man has an English mother so the same as Stefan and counts as British on that basis. The likes of Heeps have 'patriality' but shan't ever be represented GB: they're Aussies... Heeps started on 3.00 so he must be half british therefore must have a british mother or father :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 I know exactly what I am talking about and so do you , having had many conversations with you over the years about the best way to promote British riders for British speedway , to be honest I find your opening post both offensive and hurtful for a number of reasons . but it's not worth arguing the toss , there have been so many instances of the kind of behaviour you are promoting that the national league is now full of plastic brits while the real british kids drift away to other sports or just leave speedway disenchanted by the lack of opportunities . so the MDL which started with so much promise has now become Europes training scheme . just like all the other initiatives that have been put in place to further the future of British speedway riders winds up being used for the benefit of foreigners . The national league is full of "plastic" brits? I'll donate £10 to the SBF if you can name me 5 riders who are "plastic" Brits currently riding in the NL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 So what does make a "proper" British rider. Is Adam Ellis British ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior fan Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 The national league is full of "plastic" brits? I'll donate £10 to the SBF if you can name me 5 riders who are "plastic" Brits currently riding in the NL. He wont because like all stuff he contributes on here it is both factless and negative. He really has a major chip on his shoulder and ive said in the past if your brother, son , friend cant get a ride hes not ood enough. Stop bleeting on about it and do something about it, practice more, get some coaching, just stop blaiming everyone and everything else. Junior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 This can get silly, even our last world champion wasn't born in Britain. Unfortunately it isn't black and white there are grey areas, provided they agree to ride for team GB then I don't see a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 This can get silly, even our last world champion wasn't born in Britain. Unfortunately it isn't black and white there are grey areas, provided they agree to ride for team GB then I don't see a problem. And of course a recent THREE-times World Champ WAS born in Britain!!!! Which answers the question about Adam Ellis. British parents both, working abroad and so Adam born in France. Still makes him British!! Still can't see how Master Swart, as he has an English mother would be a 5 not a 3... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Both Adams parent moved abroad in the late 80's. he was born, schooled and has lived in France all his life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehammer Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 further to this heres a list of some riders who are teamless , Chris Widman , James Cockle , Liam Rumsey , Liam Carr , Richard Andrews , Matt Bates , Michael Neale , Steve Jones , Benji Compton , Ryan Blacklock , Ross Walter , Ryan Terry- Daley , Danny Phillips Tommy Fenwick . the list goes on , this is without mentioning the kids In the MDL and AJL who are waiting to step up and take their chance .... Is Ryan not partly Kiwi? If I remember correctly he certainly learnt a lot of his trade in New Zealand, and I did wonder where he had gone to as hadn't heard him about the last couple of seasons...... So technically this post contradicts a lot of what you have already said! However, I do agree that the National League should be about promoting and assisting British Youngsters..... If someone has British Partiality then they should be allowed to race, but is there a way to say they need to commit to GB? even if only for a set number of years.... If they are not selected in that time then they are free to race elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Is Ryan not partly Kiwi? If I remember correctly he certainly learnt a lot of his trade in New Zealand, and I did wonder where he had gone to as hadn't heard him about the last couple of seasons...... So technically this post contradicts a lot of what you have already said! However, I do agree that the National League should be about promoting and assisting British Youngsters..... If someone has British Partiality then they should be allowed to race, but is there a way to say they need to commit to GB? even if only for a set number of years.... If they are not selected in that time then they are free to race elsewhere I think Iris 123 has had the final say on this one , surely being the Dutch national champion in 2006 and riding in that championship every year as well as in international meetings in Belgium and Germany as a Dutchman should mean he is not eligible to claim he is brtiish and ride in the MDL or NL . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I am all in favour of the NL being for British lads but if there is a British parent I can't see how he could possibly be denied a place - if his ability justifies it - he is British end of story. As things stand I believe the opportunities are there for youngsters of a suitable standard to break into the NL, it's the step(s) up from there that need sorting or possibly the places for middle average NL riders are where it starts to break down. I think a few years ago there would have been a valid point about there being too many of doubtful patriality in the league but I will put my tenner alongside Vog's if you can list more than 5 current riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) If more people would come and watch the National League matches especially at tracks where they operate two teams there would be much less of a problem as more teams would be able to compete. Riders like James McBain, Tommy Fenwick and Liam Carr would form the basis of a Northern team cutting down on travel costs for them and any club further south who used them. The answer is simple come and watch the most excting and unpredictable speedway available. They certainly enjoy it at Dudley looking at their massive support. There is such a need for a team north of Newcastle and in the far south west (and Scunthorpe). Malcolm Vasey Edited December 28, 2012 by Proud Potter 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 But if that's where his parents lived. That's where he had to ride. Again it's no different from Ellis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 But if that's where his parents lived. That's where he had to ride. Again it's no different from Ellis The guy is 23 going on 24,he isn't some junior starting out and having to live with his parents!!!!That is a difference.Another difference is that all the riders mentioned are starting out in their career and could prove useful to the national team in the future.No way is someone who has ridden speedway since 1996 and not got very far,going to make the national team.Another differenceThere are clearly big differences that people either can't or won't see.Holta might have changed nationality,but it was a two way thing.Both Poland and Holta gained.In this situation i can't see how Britain will gain,only Pascal.But like it has been mentioned it will only happen if someone thinks he is good enough for their team.It does show just how far we have fallen though that we don't even have enough juniors to fill the team places that we have to give a place in our junior league to a mediocre experienced rider from the Netherlands.At least previous "foreign" riders like Nielsen,Glanz and some from Australia looked like they would improve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builderbob Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 vince is right the problem lies with the premier league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 If anyone thinks the problem with british speedway lies soley at PL level then we have no hope.The first and basic problem lies in attracting enough youngsters in the first place and then we have a problem at almost every step on from there.Just look at how many kids start riding in Denmark and tell me we match their standard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 If anyone thinks the problem with british speedway lies soley at PL level then we have no hope.The first and basic problem lies in attracting enough youngsters in the first place and then we have a problem at almost every step on from there.Just look at how many kids start riding in Denmark and tell me we match their standard I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all, certainly I am not. That's why I said 'as things stand' when talking about NL opportunities bviously you need more interest in the sport all around in order to get more kids wanting to get on Speedway bikes. However that is a completely different argument to whether this lad might take a place that is desperately needed by somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eye Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I think Iris 123 has had the final say on this one , surely being the Dutch national champion in 2006 and riding in that championship every year as well as in international meetings in Belgium and Germany as a Dutchman should mean he is not eligible to claim he is brtiish and ride in the MDL or NL . Isn't the Dutch Championship traditionally an 'open championship' and therefor open to riders from other countries? Maybe if it runs next year then some English riders could go out and further their experience. It's quite easy to get there even from from some random small, backward hick village such as Hinckley for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all, certainly I am not. That's why I said 'as things stand' when talking about NL opportunities bviously you need more interest in the sport all around in order to get more kids wanting to get on Speedway bikes. However that is a completely different argument to whether this lad might take a place that is desperately needed by somebody else. Sadly that tell us all we need to know about the current state of British speedway really.A rider who has done 10 years on a 500cc in Europe and hardly anyone has heard of will come over into the junior/development league on a 3 or 5 point average(if he passes the first glance test)with no real future ahead of him,and will not be putting any rider who is just starting, out of a place.Indicative of the real problem British speedway has at all levels from top to bottom.I have nothing against Pascal personally and don't really want to carry this on as it will look like i have.I have stated in the past and will again now for those who don't know my opinion,that i would have nothing against foreign riders(limited to 1 per team)of any sort in the NL as long as it will help the league/team.Say a decent young Dane or German who is just starting out and looks to have a good future and will bring people through the turnstiles.What i don't like is riders who are going nowhere and are cynically using the chance of a British passport to gain a place in the lower league.I would hope we have enough riders with little experience to fill up the places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedef27 Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Sadly that tell us all we need to know about the current state of British speedway really.A rider who has done 10 years on a 500cc in Europe and hardly anyone has heard of will come over into the junior/development league on a 3 or 5 point average(if he passes the first glance test)with no real future ahead of him,and will not be putting any rider who is just starting, out of a place.Indicative of the real problem British speedway has at all levels from top to bottom.I have nothing against Pascal personally and don't really want to carry this on as it will look like i have.I have stated in the past and will again now for those who don't know my opinion,that i would have nothing against foreign riders(limited to 1 per team)of any sort in the NL as long as it will help the league/team.Say a decent young Dane or German who is just starting out and looks to have a good future and will bring people through the turnstiles.What i don't like is riders who are going nowhere and are cynically using the chance of a British passport to gain a place in the lower league.I would hope we have enough riders with little experience to fill up the places. Do not for a second dispute what you are saying but what if you offer the trough to the horse and it does not want to drink for what ever reason. Why should we treat speedway like any other aspect of British life we have always taken non British born sportsmen and taken them under our wing as though they were own, Running Zola,Mark Loram and now we have given a Knighthood to a thoroughly deserving Bradley to join non British tennis playing legend erm Cliff and sometimes we get it wrong with Brits we gave one to an alcoholic rednosed wee scottish bully from Manchester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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