Who's Still Available?

[villiers210]

Nowhere did iI say give him the chance purely based on the fact hes British. He has a NL average of in excess of 8 points, beat some very big names last year, and yet there are still teams who prefer to sign foreign riders that could not hope to do any better. I would be the first to agree that they have to prove themselves and have the ability, but for you to say "......if he is that talented he won't struggle to pick up a club anywhere" does make me smile. I'm not saying he is next years world champion, just that he IS good enough to be given a ride in the PL rather than giving the opportunities to riders from overseas.

Edited December 15, 2012 by villiers210

[Najjer]

Can you give some examples?

[villiers210]

Already did, are you seriously telling me than a largely unknown Argentenian deserves a places in the PL over someone who has a 8 point average In the NL? If the answer is yes, then God help speedway in this country.

[Najjer]

Already did, are you seriously telling me than a largely unknown Argentenian deserves a places in the PL over someone who has a 8 point average In the NL? If the answer is yes, then God help speedway in this country.

 

I know nothing about him, but I'm led to believe he did alot of second halves at Berwick and Sheffield and was largely successful in them - presumably against NL standard riders.

 

However, that's one example, where are the others?

[villiers210]

.......you are led to believe. .......presumably? Hardly words that can substantiate his inclusion over a young guy who has ridden the UK tracks for years has has proved himself are they? Excuse me for pointing this out, but isnt this thread entitled who's still available? I simply pointed out that a young Brit who has proven himself has been overlooked in favour of riders brought in from overseas, and you automatically jump to the conlusion that I have dozens of names of NL riders that I think should be riding PL. You have read waaaaaay too much into my response.

Edited December 15, 2012 by villiers210

[Najjer]

.......you are led to believe. .......presumably? Hardly words that can substantiate his inclusion over a young guy who has ridden the UK tracks for years has has proved himself are they? Excuse me for pointing this out, but isnt this thread entitled who's still available? I simply pointed out that a young Brit who has proven himself has been overlooked in favour of riders brought in from overseas, and you automatically jump to the conlusion that I have dozens of names of NL riders that I think should be riding PL. You have read waaaaaay too much into my response.

 

No - I want to know what other overseas riders there are that haven't warranted a team place.

[wjm]

IMO part of the problem for Young Brits is that a lot of them are assets of clubs before they look for a PL place.

 

 

I have already referenced this earlier, but it is still relevant for a guy like a Morley, he is a Rye House rider is he not?

 

 

I appreciate the logic of “if you are good enough being an asset doesn’t matter”, and there are exception, but in some ways it massively does matter.

 

 

I appreciate there are some (Woffinden (Wolves), Auty (Coventry), Ellis (Lakeside)) but these guys are exceptions to the rule, known quality that are going to play a part in a decent season due to the improvement that is as good as guaranteed to come from riders of that class. So its understandable a club would take on another teams asset.

 

 

The majority of Young Brits, are long term investments and, in some instances their first season struggle will have a detrimental effect on how a side performs league table wise, thus impacting crowds as those who have a “win only mentality” will drift away when the side struggles, so it’s understandable clubs wouldn’t take such a risk on a rider who isn’t their own.

 

 

Whereas the unknown Argentine will become a Sheffield rider, with no loan fee, any improvement is solely for the clubs benefit and it will result in a transfer fee, or the ability to loan the rider out in future seasons, it isn’t any wonder that a club would show more of an investment in a rider like that than a already tied down Brit IMO, it’s just common sense.

 

 

A Morley (again as an example) has a decent year, and is recalled, the loan fee increases, or a transfer fee has to be paid.

 

 

The “who plays what part in a Brits development” is an issue IMO.

[freddyfivetoes]

There is a valid point that, before a rider will be coming in from overseas he will be good enough in his homeland for both the rider himself and the club he is joining to feel the journey is justified. Even a newcomer to these shores will be one of the top unsigned guys from his own patch. So a "largely unknown" Argentinean, to use the example offered by Villers210, who has already sampled UK conditions, raced in a GP Challenge event and two World U-21 Finals is yes, probably a better bet for Sheffield than a second NL Brit. Most important of all, and this is the problem for Joe Jacobs (who most certainly appears to have great potential) is that the Argentinean will almost-immediately become an asset at Sheffield, who have stated a determination to build an asset-base as a primary objective. Who does young Joe "belong" to?

[villiers210]

No - I want to know what other overseas riders there are that haven't warranted a team place.

I have no idea. It was never my point that there are dozens of these either - simply that JJ deserves a PL place.

 

IMO part of the problem for Young Brits is that a lot of them are assets of clubs before they look for a PL place.

 

 

I have already referenced this earlier, but it is still relevant for a guy like a Morley, he is a Rye House rider is he not?

 

 

I appreciate the logic of “if you are good enough being an asset doesn’t matter”, and there are exception, but in some ways it massively does matter.

 

 

I appreciate there are some (Woffinden (Wolves), Auty (Coventry), Ellis (Lakeside)) but these guys are exceptions to the rule, known quality that are going to play a part in a decent season due to the improvement that is as good as guaranteed to come from riders of that class. So its understandable a club would take on another teams asset.

 

 

The majority of Young Brits, are long term investments and, in some instances their first season struggle will have a detrimental effect on how a side performs league table wise, thus impacting crowds as those who have a “win only mentality” will drift away when the side struggles, so it’s understandable clubs wouldn’t take such a risk on a rider who isn’t their own.

 

 

Whereas the unknown Argentine will become a Sheffield rider, with no loan fee, any improvement is solely for the clubs benefit and it will result in a transfer fee, or the ability to loan the rider out in future seasons, it isn’t any wonder that a club would show more of an investment in a rider like that than a already tied down Brit IMO, it’s just common sense.

 

 

A Morley (again as an example) has a decent year, and is recalled, the loan fee increases, or a transfer fee has to be paid.

 

 

The “who plays what part in a Brits development” is an issue IMO.

Sadly, there is more truth in this. However, the fact still remains that there are quite a few British riders in PL who are not assets of the club they ride for. How many of Somersets 3 Brits are assets of Somerset?

[MrMungo]

I have no idea. It was never my point that there are dozens of these either - simply that JJ deserves a PL place.

 

I'd suspect his PL team will be announced sometime next week.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

 

 

I'd suspect his PL team will be announced sometime next week.

Newcastle??

[villiers210]

I'd suspect his PL team will be announced sometime next week.

I do hope so Mr Mungo - then I can go back into hibernation until March

[Najjer]

I have no idea. It was never my point that there are dozens of these either - simply that JJ deserves a PL place.

 

Are you sure? These posts seem to contradict themselves.

 

and yet there are still teams who prefer to sign foreign riders that could not hope to do any better. I would be the first to agree that they have to prove themselves and have the ability, but for you to say "......if he is that talented he won't struggle to pick up a club anywhere" does make me smile. I'm not saying he is next years world champion, just that he IS good enough to be given a ride in the PL rather than giving the opportunities to riders from overseas.

 

I simply pointed out that a young Brit who has proven himself has been overlooked in favour of riders brought in from overseas,

[villiers210]

Are you sure? These posts seem to contradict themselves.

You know full well the point I am trying to make. Again, it is about 1 rider who I believe fully deserves a PL place. If you wish to disect my post to such an extent that you eventually come up with something that I never meant in the first place, then good luck. I'm sure such actions will keep you happy over the long winter days.

[wjm]

I have no idea. It was never my point that there are dozens of these either - simply that JJ deserves a PL place.

 

Sadly, there is more truth in this. However, the fact still remains that there are quite a few British riders in PL who are not assets of the club they ride for. How many of Somersets 3 Brits are assets of Somerset?

 

None of them are, and for the future of British Speedways sake, Somerset are to be applauded for that.

 

 

And one rider in their side in particular is an example of what every Young Brit without a place who wants to make their way in Speedway should be looking at.

 

 

Kyle Newman wasn’t getting a chance, wanted a chance, wants to make it as a speedway rider, what did he do when he wasn’t getting a chance closer to home? He drove past about 90% of tracks in the country to ride for Newcastle, that’s commitment, that’s earning your way.

 

It isnt just young riders like Newman that take on the acceptance that travelling is part of the sport (Wilko and Schramm went out their way to rebuild their careers by going up to Berwick every week).

 

 

British Speedway,some sides, and the young riders, in some ways have become victims to regionalisation and location.

 

 

“Up North” in particular, Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow, Scottish Speedway in general has seen a drought of young talent in recent years ( a wider spread problem than that which lies at the door of the 3 clubs IMO).

 

 

I don’t doubt for a second that all 3 would love the chance to see a 3.00 rider come through the ranks and progress, but due to circumstance the riders aren’t on their door step, and the team place isnt at the door step of a lot of riders either.

 

 

Do enough Young Brits want to make the commitment, travel miles, put in the ground work to make their way?

 

 

It isnt something I know an answer to, but have an opinion on it, my opinion, makes it difficult for me to have a lot of sympathy for Brits who claim they don’t get their chance.

 

 

Sometimes you need to do more to make it happen IMO.

 

Some riders make it easy for teams to look elsewhere, again, I might be wrong with that, but looking on that’s how it seems to me.

[Bolt]

Joe Jacobs seems to be holding his own out in Oz at the moment, see below taken from AustralianSpeedway.com & MWA

'

"Another perfect Perth night for the second leg of International speedway events in the past fortnight at Pinjar Park. A good sized crowd enjoyed some very exciting racing from all divisions on show but it was the internationals most had come to see. Big hitters Ricky Wells (USA) & Ricky Kling (Swd) where a class above the rest as the International All Stars def the Oz Hot Shots 60 - 44 in a well received teams format meeting, something new for the Perth bike punters.

 

Wolverhampton star Ricky Wells (15pts) as Captain rode a faultless meeting for the All Stars and was well served by Ricky Kling (10pts) and three very talented young Brits in Joe Jacobs (8pts), Kyle Newman (8pts) & Kyle Howarth (8pts) with local riders Doug Scoble chipping in with (4pts) & Jake Lewis on (2pts). The All Stars dug deep and were well managed throughout the night by former Peterborough star Nigel Flatman who revelled in the position. The boys all rode their hearts out tonight and i couldn't of asked for a better result Flatman said after the meeting."

 

Also at Rob Woffinden Classic

Wuffy was able to rise to the occasion and dive underneath Kling for the lead as they raced down the back straight for the first time.

He kept the momentum going during his final two heats to emerge unbeaten on 15 points.

Next best – and seeded into the semi finals with Woffinden were – Ricky Kling (Sweden) 12, Ty Proctor (Victoria) 12, Ricky Wells (USA) 11, Daniel Winchester (WA) 11, Cameron Heeps (WA) 10, Simon Stead (UK) 10 and Joe Jacobs (UK) 9.

Danish rider Morton Risager just missed out – being beaten on a countback with Jacobs after also scoring 9 points.

[Bolt]

None of them are, and for the future of British Speedways sake, Somerset are to be applauded for that.

 

 

And one rider in their side in particular is an example of what every Young Brit without a place who wants to make their way in Speedway should be looking at.

 

 

Kyle Newman wasn’t getting a chance, wanted a chance, wants to make it as a speedway rider, what did he do when he wasn’t getting a chance closer to home? He drove past about 90% of tracks in the country to ride for Newcastle, that’s commitment, that’s earning your way.

 

It isnt just young riders like Newman that take on the acceptance that travelling is part of the sport (Wilko and Schramm went out their way to rebuild their careers by going up to Berwick every week).

 

 

British Speedway,some sides, and the young riders, in some ways have become victims to regionalisation and location.

 

 

“Up North” in particular, Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow, Scottish Speedway in general has seen a drought of young talent in recent years ( a wider spread problem than that which lies at the door of the 3 clubs IMO).

 

 

I don’t doubt for a second that all 3 would love the chance to see a 3.00 rider come through the ranks and progress, but due to circumstance the riders aren’t on their door step, and the team place isnt at the door step of a lot of riders either.

 

 

Do enough Young Brits want to make the commitment, travel miles, put in the ground work to make their way?

 

 

It isnt something I know an answer to, but have an opinion on it, my opinion, makes it difficult for me to have a lot of sympathy for Brits who claim they don’t get their chance.

 

 

Sometimes you need to do more to make it happen IMO.

 

Some riders make it easy for teams to look elsewhere, again, I might be wrong with that, but looking on that’s how it seems to me.

 

They maybe something in this with some Brits but I don't think this is the case with JJ. This lad has shown his commitment to speedway and is spending a second season out in Oz. The lad has travelled the lenght of the UK with his NL club and for the odd PL chances he got such as Berwick & Workington. He also has spannered for Dak North thoughtout 2012 home and away.I get your point but I think Villiers210 is only trying to say that the lad deserves than opportunity and i have to agree.

[Najjer]

You know full well the point I am trying to make. Again, it is about 1 rider who I believe fully deserves a PL place. If you wish to disect my post to such an extent that you eventually come up with something that I never meant in the first place, then good luck. I'm sure such actions will keep you happy over the long winter days.

 

The general jist is that you think Joe Jacobs deserves a team place, which is fair enough, but you also said at the expense of 'over seas' riders - when questioned as to who exactly, so far you have been able to name Facundo Albin and that's about it.

[ekimba]

Just checked the BSPA website and there are only 14 places left to fill. and there still appears to be a lot of unsigned riders out there,

[Lions12]

A potential team with the riders still available could be

 

1 Claus Vissing

2 Dakota North

3 Cory Gathercole

4 Claes Nedermark

5 Taylor Poole

6 Kenny Ingalls

7 Charles Wright = 42.24

 

Quite ridiculous really!