European Championships 2013 - Rzeszow Final 4 Live On Eurosport

[TwoMinuteWarning]

So it's civil war at the FIM, and the paying customers and the riders will be the victims.

 

Next thing we know they'll be running both competitions on the same dates.

 

Surely this is restraint of trade?

[PHILIPRISING]

IF true, and I do know that no decision has yet been made, your comment about restraint of trade is a valid one.

 

For starters, while BSI/IMG might be quite happy with such a ruling, it is the FIM who are pushing in this direction. In other disciplines riders are not allowed to compete in both European and World Championships but that is more easily enforceable because the FIM have contracts with teams rather than individuals. Speedway riders are essentially self-employed and their position is very different.

 

There is a huge disparity in the fees paid to the FIM by tracks staging rounds of the SEC as against the SGP (about 17,500 euros a pop) and, of course, One Sport do not pay the FIM the millions that BSI/IMG do.

 

You are also right that there is a civil war going on at the FIM right now and not only on the speedway front.

[Ghostwalker]

So it's civil war at the FIM, and the paying customers and the riders will be the victims.

 

Next thing we know they'll be running both competitions on the same dates.

 

Surely this is restraint of trade?

 

I agree with that, and I seriously doubt that the EU will allow such restrictions since it would be against the current EU-rules.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Ghostwalker

[PHILIPRISING]

I agree with that, and I seriously doubt that the EU will allow such restrictions since it would be against the current EU-rules.

 

MIGHT not be that clear cut ... what is? Could be a condition of their licences...

[iris123]

Agreed, was that tedious or what? Sit through all that, and the commentators still weren't sure whether Vaculik was champion until the Final was run!

 

Seems to me that, internationally and domestically, races are run on a timetable to suit the riders, and not the crowd or even the TV companies. Long gaps between races spoil any tension that might have been created (not that there was much of that at Rzeszow).

 

I have little sympathy for promoters who whinge about diminishing crowds, most of them haven't dragged themselves into the 21st century. 22 races, each lasting little over a minute, in 3 and a half hours? That's not entertainment.

 

Had to twice force myself to watch the meeting further in the hope something might happen.In the end i gave up.This sort of thing isn't good for the sport.How many non speedway fans would persevere more than half an hour?For one of the previous meetings i sat in front of the tv with my son who hadn't really watched speedway before.After the first heat he said "what is exciting about that?They are just going round in circles!!!" I said i'd just watch 30 minutes in the hope he might get into it and i could watch the meeting.He seemed to get interested in the fact that for two or three heats running the rider in yellow fell,but once that sequence stopped,so did his interest and in all honesty i couldn't justify both of us watching so i let him watch some cartoon film instead.

 

Something needs to be sorted out not only in the running of the meeting,but in track prep.Surely it can't be that one rider is just slightly better than the one behind him and the one behind the one in second is slightly worse etc.......Hardly any chance of passing.Even Egon Müller had to say it was a gaters track and first into the bend was more than likely going to be the winner.....

 

As for next year,well Phil did say it was a good thing for speedway when Castagna was made top man in the FIM...........yer right!!!Not a good debut year and next season isn't looking promising going by the latest news

[Ghostwalker]

MIGHT not be that clear cut ... what is? Could be a condition of their licences...

 

The EU-laws have something that is called free movement for goods and services on the inner market of the European Union.

I don't know how it works in practicality but its there to prevent countries/organisation from exuding restriction in trade of goods and services.

 

I don't know if it applicable here however we had a similar situation in Sweden where Svemo tried to stop the riders who

had a Svemo license from participating in events organized by the the stand alone organization Folkspeedway. (not Svemo/FIm affiliated).

However this was ruled as illegal due to EU-laws and other laws that exist to prevent restriction of competition.

 

In the same way Svemo cannot set rules that relegates that minimum number of Swedes in a lineup since it also violates the same EU-rules.

This have been solved by a verbal agreement but I doubt that would hold up in court if it would go that far (very unlikely though).

 

This was not a ruling for speedway in particular but more of a general ruling that a federation does not have exclusive right to organize

events and completions in sports. Basically it means that someone could start a new international Speedway federation

to compete with FIM and it would be up to each national federation and each team to decide who they wanted to belong to,

 

I am no expert but I will have a look at what the law says.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Ghostwalker

[A ORLOV]

Another drawn out boring meeting, a couple of good races but that was it. I appreciate it did not help having Tai, Emil and Greg not riding but previous rounds were also not too good, maybe a change in venues is part of the answer. They will have to change things for next year to get people to watch it.

 

The commentators mentioned that any one getting a max received 1 million euros. What was the prize money for the meeting and championship. A very good pay night for Martin.

[Ghostwalker]

Another drawn out boring meeting, a couple of good races but that was it. I appreciate it did not help having Tai, Emil and Greg not riding but previous rounds were also not too good, maybe a change in venues is part of the answer. They will have to change things for next year to get people to watch it.

 

The commentators mentioned that any one getting a max received 1 million euros. What was the prize money for the meeting and championship. A very good pay night for Martin.

 

Imo fhe first round from Gdansk was very good, plenty of good racing and a good stadium.

[The Know]

REALLY surprised at how often Nicki has failed to get the job done this year, falling at the last hurdle. No GP wins and now this.

Has been maybe.

 

REALLY surprised at how often Nicki has failed to get the job done this year, falling at the last hurdle. No GP wins and now this.

Has been maybe.

Interesting article on Przeglad Sportowy this morning .... looks like that the GP riders cannot take part anymore in the SEC next year:

 

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=nl&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://zuzel.przegladsportowy.pl/zuzel-Albo-zuzlowe-Grand-Prix-albo-Indywidualne-Mistrzostwa-Europy,artykul,182691,1,281.html&usg=ALkJrhiBDfF7yiIQPATO_XWvGfKoAio_Jg

In world motocross all riders run under FIM rules but can ride in national championships. They also ride in states under AMA rules all at the same time. Just seems a pity really and can't see why both series can't run side by side.

[PHILIPRISING]

Had to twice force myself to watch the meeting further in the hope something might happen.In the end i gave up.This sort of thing isn't good for the sport.How many non speedway fans would persevere more than half an hour?For one of the previous meetings i sat in front of the tv with my son who hadn't really watched speedway before.After the first heat he said "what is exciting about that?They are just going round in circles!!!" I said i'd just watch 30 minutes in the hope he might get into it and i could watch the meeting.He seemed to get interested in the fact that for two or three heats running the rider in yellow fell,but once that sequence stopped,so did his interest and in all honesty i couldn't justify both of us watching so i let him watch some cartoon film instead.

 

Something needs to be sorted out not only in the running of the meeting,but in track prep.Surely it can't be that one rider is just slightly better than the one behind him and the one behind the one in second is slightly worse etc.......Hardly any chance of passing.Even Egon Müller had to say it was a gaters track and first into the bend was more than likely going to be the winner.....

 

As for next year,well Phil did say it was a good thing for speedway when Castagna was made top man in the FIM...........yer right!!!Not a good debut year and next season isn't looking promising going by the latest news

 

CANNOT blame Armando for this. He inherited the mess and is trying to sort it out.

 

Another drawn out boring meeting, a couple of good races but that was it. I appreciate it did not help having Tai, Emil and Greg not riding but previous rounds were also not too good, maybe a change in venues is part of the answer. They will have to change things for next year to get people to watch it.

 

The commentators mentioned that any one getting a max received 1 million euros. What was the prize money for the meeting and championship. A very good pay night for Martin.

 

DON'T think that's right ...think it was 10,000, around the same as for a GP win (though a max not required)

 

Has been maybe.

 

Has been maybe. In world motocross all riders run under FIM rules but can ride in national championships. They also ride in states under AMA rules all at the same time. Just seems a pity really and can't see why both series can't run side by side.

 

BUT on a level playing field... same inscription fees, etc

[f-s-p]

CANNOT blame Armando for this. He inherited the mess and is trying to sort it out.

DON'T think that's right ...think it was 10,000, around the same as for a GP win (though a max not required)

BUT on a level playing field... same inscription fees, etc

In the SEC finals you get 450 euros a point from the prelis and 650 euros for a point in the final heat. So riding an 18 point max would have made you 8700 euros agains a GP win for 12k USD. 1 million for a max has had to be a joke.

[LagutaRacingFan]

The BSI need to leave the sport, The sooner the better.

[A ORLOV]

CANNOT blame Armando for this. He inherited the mess and is trying to sort it out.

 

 

 

DON'T think that's right ...think it was 10,000, around the same as for a GP win (though a max not required)

 

 

 

BUT on a level playing field... same inscription fees, etc

In the SEC finals you get 450 euros a point from the prelis and 650 euros for a point in the final heat. So riding an 18 point max would have made you 8700 euros agains a GP win for 12k USD. 1 million for a max has had to be a joke.

That is what the presenter stated, 1 million. Because I was the only person in the pub watching it I could not ask others if what he said was correct.

[f-s-p]

That is what the presenter stated, 1 million. Because I was the only person in the pub watching it I could not ask others if what he said was correct.

Stekkers to the rescue, come and solve this! Some SEC authority has today stated that Vaculik made 10,5k euros last sunday. That either dont add up with my figures... Am I wrong?

[SCB]

In the SEC finals you get 450 euros a point from the prelis and 650 euros for a point in the final heat. So riding an 18 point max would have made you 8700 euros agains a GP win for 12k USD. 1 million for a max has had to be a joke.

8700 Euros is about 12k USD so nothing in it.

[PHILIPRISING]

ALL permanent SGP riders are given a similar sum at the start of the season ...

[mikec]

A few observations from Rzeszow. Went to the publicity event at Millenium Hall, they had the riders there, the start girls there, real opportunity to "sell" the event. So was surprised the organisers had no music, no microphones, no screen showing SEC races, no Q&A with the riders etc etc. All a bit underwhelming, the riders looked a bit bored, though they did sign autographs & pose for pics with fans. I just felt OneSport really missed a trick there. As for the meeting, not a classic, though always good to watch Grigory Laguta race live. Huge, fast track though not conducive to much passing. Have to agree with other posters about it dragging on, 3 n a half hours is too long - & believe me by 10pm over there it was bitterly cold too! Enjoyable night though, was quite amusing watching the locals give Pedersen plenty of stick, while cheering Laguta & Vaculik (despite the fact he races for their local rivals Tarnow) - proper panto villain Nicki is there! Feel the SEC has potential, need to strengthen their field. Maybe having the top 6 Euro SGP riders, 6 non GP riders (e.g both Laguta's, Holta, Karpov etc), then the top 3 from the U21's + local wildcard would be good. Don't know the practicalities of that, but it'd strengthen the field & be better for fans at the track/watching on TV.

Edited October 3, 2013 by mikec

[f-s-p]

A few observations from Rzeszow. Went to the publicity event at Millenium Hall, they had the riders there, the start girls there, real opportunity to "sell" the event. So was surprised the organisers had no music, no microphones, no screen showing SEC races, no Q&A with the riders etc etc. All a bit underwhelming, the riders looked a bit bored, though they did sign autographs & pose for pics with fans. I just felt OneSport really missed a trick there. As for the meeting, not a classic, though always good to watch Grigory Laguta race live. Huge, fast track though not conducive to much passing. Have to agree with other posters about it dragging on, 3 n a half hours is too long - & believe me by 10pm over there it was bitterly cold too! Enjoyable night though, was quite amusing watching the locals give Pedersen plenty of stick, while cheering Laguta & Vaculik (despite the fact he races for their local rivals Tarnow) - proper panto villain Nicki is there! Feel the SEC has potential, need to strengthen their field. Maybe having the top 6 Euro SGP riders, 6 non GP riders (e.g both Laguta's, Holta, Karpov etc), then the top 3 from the U21's + local wildcard would be good. Don't know the practicalities of that, but it'd strengthen the field & be better for fans at the track/watching on TV.

The start of your reply pretty much says what SGP has been doing for some time, though with sound. That sort of underlines the whole thing, it's a copypasted receipe. As to the latter part, then it's as close to a SGP as it can, without changing the name...

[LagutaRacingFan]

SEC should put riders like Jepsen Jensen, Patryk Dudek, Thomas H Jonasson, Bartosz Zmarzlik and Pawel Przdepelski into the series.

[Ghostwalker]

Emiil S and Andreas J have been announced as the first two wild cards for next season,