lucifer sam Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 What a load of twaddle, which stems mostly from jealousy... Yeah right. Jealous? What of? What have you won? This is a thread about Scunthorpe Saints, so please can all the gloating Dudley fans please vacate it, before I say something I might regret at a later date. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Would you be so kind as to point out where i have said that anyone shouldnt be in the league???,i said you have to get the better riders to a higher standard I never said that you did. I was pointing out that last year, there was countless posts relating to the fact that Adam Roynon was riding in the NL, and countless people were up in arms about it. As a result, I was wondering whose turn it was going to be next. And I couldn't disagree with you more. Whoever Tom Perry ends up riding for next year ( and its far from certain that it will be Dudley) he needs at least another year in NL to consolidate what he has achieved so far. Full time PL next year will be too early for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I just withdrew a post as it was rightly objectionable, and possibly offensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Yeah right. Jealous? What of? What have you won? This is a thread about Scunthorpe Saints, so please can all the gloating Dudley fans please vacate it, before I say something I might regret at a later date. All the best Rob now that REALLY made me laugh. You finish a post like that with "All the best" hahaha. Comedy genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahLapworth Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Its hard to say what the National League has become now days. In many respects it is probably a two tier league where you have teams like Dudley and then bona fide development clubs like Buxton. Either way it is still important to have the league as it is the platform for British talent and if the league has become more competitve then that can only be good. I have seen a few comments where people have said there are riders who stay in the NL because its easy money for them and I can see their point. As harsh as it seems maybe the BSPA should slap a ban on riders who have raced in more than 100 PL meeeting from racing in the NL? Its a very similar rule we have in the junior leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Rides Again Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Sad day. I hope that the Saints will "come marching in" once again in 2014. Maybe some Challenge matches on Bank Holidays will be arranged in 2013 just to keep things ticking over. Birmingham Bulls did this on and off for the last 3 or 4 years. I think that finger pointing in this instance is a little unnecessary. There has always been an uneasy tension between the "stand alone" clubs and the "second teams". The Saints folding are just a very unfortunate symptom of that tension. I really hope that Dudley find a permanent home ASAP and then they can take their "Elite" level support into the appropriate level of competition. Maybe they will then field a "Junior" team just like Scunthorpe have since 2008. Let's hope so. Edited November 22, 2012 by EC Rides Again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Sad day. I hope that the Saints will "come marching in" once again in 2014. Maybe some Challenge matches on Bank Holidays will be arranged in 2013 just to keep things ticking over. Birmingham Bulls did this on and off for the last 3 or 4 years. I think that finger pointing in this instance is a little unnecessary. There has always been an uneasy tension between the "stand alone" clubs and the "second teams". The Saints folding are just a very unfortunate symptom of that tension. I really hope that Dudley find a permanent home ASAP and then they can take their "Elite" level support into the appropriate level of competition. Maybe they will field a "Junior" team just like Scunthorpe have since 2008. Let's hope so. and I for one echo those thoughts completely. Even though we are delighted that Max has signed for us in 2013, trust me, we are depressed beyond belief that there will be no NL Scunny next year. This league cannot afford to lose ANY team. And, might I just add that regardless of the result, I really enjoyed my first visit to Scunny last year. Really hope that things get back to normal for you real soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Its got to be decided whether we ever want A british World champ again, as the way our sport is run without a training league I just cannot see it happening. I'm old enough to remember stadiums full and with plenty of good british riders to support. Nowadays some teams may have only one british rider. At the moment we have several decent youngsters coming through the ranks. Worralls Birks etc. those happen to have come through Scunny where they get loads of track time. I know there are some other tracks that give training but how long will they run, surely they are going to meet the same problems as Scunny. "From the first rung of every ladder you have to progress to next rung until you get to the top."... so call the league whatever you like but the first tier will always be the training league, whether you acknowledge it or not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) I just withdrew a post as it was rightly objectionable, and possibly offensive. Yes, I did see it before it went EC and Villers are right - any arguments are pointless. It does show that the National League does need to get its house in order, and sort out what exactly it is about (IMO a training league), and there also needs to be better protection towards the teams that have developed their own riders. All the best Rob Edited November 22, 2012 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Its got to be decided whether we ever want A british World champ again, as the way our sport is run without a training league I just cannot see it happening. I'm old enough to remember stadiums full and with plenty of good british riders to support. Nowadays some teams may have only one british rider. At the moment we have several decent youngsters coming through the ranks. Worralls Birks etc. those happen to have come through Scunny where they get loads of track time. I know there are some other tracks that give training but how long will they run, surely they are going to meet the same problems as Scunny. "From the first rung of every ladder you have to progress to next rung until you get to the top."... so call the league whatever you like but the first tier will always be the training league, whether you acknowledge it or not. i know what you're saying June, but surely the first tier these days isn't the NL, it's the amateur league. I have always had the greatest admiration for what Scunthorpe have tried to do - anybody who doesn't is a fool. I also had a real "eye-opener" at a visit to Northside last year. What they do and how they organise it there is top drawer. The biggest problem as I see it is that British Speedway should be pouring money into these facilities to develop the skills of all young British riders, not only those just starting out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 My last two points are: 1............Please give this back to Scunny. They have lost a really good NL Team. 2............Can I ask a question? Is it not time to somehow restructure the NL & the AJL/MDL so that the Clubs who want/can run at a true 3rd Tier/NL 2013 Semi Pro League do and the others run at either 1 or 2 x 6 Heat Matches per night 4th Division/Amatuer League/Training League? Please do not turn this into Dudley v the Rest of the NL..................Hope the Saints will be back sooner rather than later. Mr. Godfrey/Mr Parnaby can you some how arrange to get the Saints or the Stags to Monmore Wood in an old firm Iron 'n' Steel Challenge Match in 2013? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamber Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Every couple of weeks or so i read somwhere that england/u.k./english call it what you will dont train the youngsters like the danes/swedes/poles now is the perfect time to change things..Scunny/Northside/Leicster/Buxton are all spread about the country. why dont the b.s.p.a. give money/grants or whatever to each track that runs training schools to make them better equipped with bikes,riding equipment etc...Northside just gets better everytime i go but it or they all need help to survive..a few years back we had Linlithgow,Felton,Darvel but they closed for whatever reading theres some great tracks and facilities out there they just need a bit help now and again to help them survive..The b.s.p.a. have given a donation or grant to the scolarship that sends riders to aussie every year nothing against that but i think we should be looking closer to home first and foremost....rant over..... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Every couple of weeks or so i read somwhere that england/u.k./english call it what you will dont train the youngsters like the danes/swedes/poles now is the perfect time to change things..Scunny/Northside/Leicster/Buxton are all spread about the country. why dont the b.s.p.a. give money/grants or whatever to each track that runs training schools to make them better equipped with bikes,riding equipment etc...Northside just gets better everytime i go but it or they all need help to survive..a few years back we had Linlithgow,Felton,Darvel but they closed for whatever reading theres some great tracks and facilities out there they just need a bit help now and again to help them survive..The b.s.p.a. have given a donation or grant to the scolarship that sends riders to aussie every year nothing against that but i think we should be looking closer to home first and foremost....rant over..... don't forget sittingbourne and lydd, two excellent set ups down here in the south east! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Ultimately we all want the same thing so it's a bit silly arguing amongst ourselves. All the clubs at all levels need each other to survive. Few, if any, clubs can cover all the bases from someone wobbling around for the first time to becoming a world champion. For example, take Heathens and Stoke out of the NL and overnight there will be 14 riders out of speedway for the coming year. Take the like of KL, Buxton and Scunny out of the NL and where are the riders going to come from to ride for the like of Heathens and Stoke? Each club plays a role in one way or another and all require the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunch Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Ultimately we all want the same thing so it's a bit silly arguing amongst ourselves. All the clubs at all levels need each other to survive. Few, if any, clubs can cover all the bases from someone wobbling around for the first time to becoming a world champion. For example, take Heathens and Stoke out of the NL and overnight there will be 14 riders out of speedway for the coming year. Take the like of KL, Buxton and Scunny out of the NL and where are the riders going to come from to ride for the like of Heathens and Stoke? Each club plays a role in one way or another and all require the others. Its comforting to know that Scunthorpe were providing a service to Dudley and Stoke by training riders up for you,as your Chairman says in his press release re Max Clegg...he has been trained up on Scunthorpes mini track so should be well suited to our track...so glad we could be of service. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) All the clubs at all levels need each other to survive. Few, if any, clubs can cover all the bases from someone wobbling around for the first time to becoming a world champion. For example, take Heathens and Stoke out of the NL and overnight there will be 14 riders out of speedway for the coming year. Take the like of KL, Buxton and Scunny out of the NL and where are the riders going to come from to ride for the like of Heathens and Stoke? Each club plays a role in one way or another and all require the others. Unbelievable arrogance. And don't try to drag Stoke into this... The purpose of the National League is to train riders for the Premier League and Elite League, not for other National League teams. No wonder British Speedway is an international backwater. We need to get our superstars of the future into the top leagues. All the best Rob Edited November 23, 2012 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Dear oh dear. Don't you think every club, and many defunct clubs, would love to be able to offer training facilities, amateur league, NL and PL/EL if possible? I mentioned Stoke because it too is a stand-alone club in the NL and didn't Birks learn his trade at Scunny? If every club but those with training facilities closed tomorrow where would all the riders that would have filled positions in those clubs' team ride? Quite how acknowledging the sport is stumped without the like of Scunny, and I'll add that I'm really rather envious of the set-up the club has, could be considered arrogant I really don't know. Surely it would have been arrogant had I said something like "Well we're al right, we don't need Scunny." but my feeling is quite the opposite. We, the sport in this country, desperately need clubs like Scunny and the sooner it is back in the NL the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 My opinion on this is that, if the NL is purely a training league for the other leagues, then why should people like me pay to watch people training? In what other sport do the public pay to watch people training? What I have seen of the amatuer league it serves a purpose, and allows some riders to ride against others, rather than just ride round and round after meetings individually. At least it has some structure, although the ones I have seen are always short of riders and are not run very well! however it is intersting to see the likes of Bailey, Grieves? and Whitmore get a ride and improve to hopefully get a reserve berth the next year. The main point here is I wouldn't pay to watch those lads training. I would however pay and do so to watch the racing we have seen in the NL at times last season, usually when the teams are evenly balanced like Mildenhall, Dudley, Scunthorpe and Stoke at times. IF the NL is supposed to attract paying public, then it needs to be of a decent standard, not purely a training ground for amatuers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 (edited) Dear oh dear. Don't you think every club, and many defunct clubs, would love to be able to offer training facilities, amateur league, NL and PL/EL if possible? I mentioned Stoke because it too is a stand-alone club in the NL and didn't Birks learn his trade at Scunny? If every club but those with training facilities closed tomorrow where would all the riders that would have filled positions in those clubs' team ride? Quite how acknowledging the sport is stumped without the like of Scunny, and I'll add that I'm really rather envious of the set-up the club has, could be considered arrogant I really don't know. Surely it would have been arrogant had I said something like "Well we're al right, we don't need Scunny." but my feeling is quite the opposite. We, the sport in this country, desperately need clubs like Scunny and the sooner it is back in the NL the better. That's a much better post. 21st CH, just read your own previous post again. Whether you meant it or not, it read that the likes of Scunthorpe, Buxton and KL were there simply to service Dudley. And Ashley Birks was a totally different matter. He'd already graduated to the Scunny PL team, so it made sense for him to ride for different PL & NL tracks last season. Good luck to Max Clegg, a smashing kid with a lot of talent. Meanwhile, the gulf between team in the NL needs sorting out. Yes, this league always has been a compromise between the "second teams" and the "standalones", but there should be greater protection towards the "second teams", because there aren't enough "standalones" if the second teams plus Buxton all pulled out. The standalone clubs should not be able to go and choose from the pick of the riders developed by the second teams - there needs to be something put in place to prevent this from happening again. All the best Rob Edited November 23, 2012 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamber Posted November 23, 2012 Report Share Posted November 23, 2012 Some of the N.L meetings are better than some P.L. meetings.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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