roguetrader Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Well, the Heathens are looking for at least 6 riders on loan and Cov will almost certainly need a few. Stoke and IOW, for example, may be looking for a number 1. I'd like to think the Scunny lads will get fixed up. At least from that point of view it would soften the blow a touch. Although the NL may be changing by becoming increasingly professional and competitive one should consider that we now have the amateur league which could be argued to fill the void between newcomers and the lower end of current NL teams. It's certainly the argument I would make. Personally I think this four-tier programme for riders is very good for them and the sport. It is showing riders trying to make a breakthrough where they need to be just to compete with NL reserves. Having someone to chase is what they need to improve. Likewise, the riders a step ahead in the middle order of NL teams need strong heat leaders to chase after to gauge their progress against riders currently holding PL reserve places. I give Perry as an example. He had a super season and I believe having Roynon in the team helped him no end. The banter between them was great. Every week Perry stated he was after that number 1 race jacket off Roynon. It was, perhaps, a significant part of his motivation and it carried him to second in the averages. The coming season could be interesting in that regard as we lose a few to the PL and riders like Morris, Jacobs, Blackbird, Reade and Young could be expected to step up again to become genuine out-and-out heat leaders. 'Tapping-up' should not be condoned but without any insider information we should consider that it's possible riders may have stated they don't want to stay with 'x' and would rather ride for 'y'. I think the daft low points limit is also to blame as much as anything for the problems some clubs may have. It's staggering to think that even KL cannot keep the same 1-7. Only IOW can strengthen for next season. How do you 'sell' to you fans, potential new fans and sponsors that a team struggling in 2012 must be made weaker for 2013? There's not enough continuity or growth. More biased and complete rubbish from a Heathens fan, one of the main clubs responsible for the demise of the National League by their failure to apply points money limits for their riders. I was ridiculed for stating that the National League was losing its way but to lose a club like Scunthorpe who have produced some of the brightest British talents over the last few seasons is staggering. The National League is supposed to be a development league and is being forced into a different level by certain clubs who employ elite league riders. An issue that should never be allowed. How on earth do people expect riders to compete with such riders who are sponsored and riding engines that will be highly tuned and way way beyond the affordability of most National League riders. I trust the BSPA take full notice of Scunthorpes position and think long and hard about the direction of the National League. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Here we go........Dudley's fault again! Dudley were not in the NL when it was changed from the CL to the NL from my memories, There has always be a conflict of interests for those competing in the British 3rd Division since it was created, just like when St Austell and Linlithgow were accused of 'win at all costs' way back. I do hope that Mr Godfrey has a change of heart by time the declaration date for the final teams to be announced or that some else can take over running the Saints and has them riding out of Scunthorpe as a stand alone team either as Scunthorpe or by another name (Hull maybe)! Edited November 22, 2012 by berniev123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I think the daft low points limit is also to blame as much as anything for the problems some clubs may have. It's staggering to think that even KL cannot keep the same 1-7. Only IOW can strengthen for next season. How do you 'sell' to you fans, potential new fans and sponsors that a team struggling in 2012 must be made weaker for 2013? There's not enough continuity or growth. Talk about missing the point. The National League is a training league. If each team is bringing in two new 3.00 riders each season, the points limit is about right, although I'd like to see it reduced to 36 or 38. The top riders in the NL should be moving into the PL each season, leaving the bottom five in the team plus two new youngsters for the following year. The National League is first and foremost a training ground. Any team success is just a bonus. All the best Rob 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 This is the 3rd time Scunny have had their riders poached in 3 years that I know of where is the rider loyalty Scunny had a good 2 year program and clearly some of the riders saw pound signs over development. Or maybe some riders prefer to ride for their local club (and get in more meetings!) instead of a regular 250 mile round trip? Just a thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy bill Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Talk about missing the point. The National League is a training league. If each team is bringing in two new 3.00 riders each season, the points limit is about right, although I'd like to see it reduced to 36 or 38. The top riders in the NL should be moving into the PL each season, leaving the bottom five in the team plus two new youngsters for the following year. The National League is first and foremost a training ground. Any team success is just a bonus. All the best wil you stop refering to national le\ague as a training league ok it was once but not anymore the junior leagues are know the training leagues national league as outgrown that twit Talk about missing the point. The National League is a training league. If each team is bringing in two new 3.00 riders each season, the points limit is about right, although I'd like to see it reduced to 36 or 38. The top riders in the NL should be moving into the PL each season, leaving the bottom five in the team plus two new youngsters for the following year. The National League is first and foremost a training ground. Any team success is just a bonus. All the best Rob le Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Disgraceful they have not beenm tapped or spken to by Stoke Lets see who they join Malcolm Vasey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy bill Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) stop calling the national league a training league,it as outgrown that status the the junior league is the training league the national league is a third division and is more proffesonal now that is a fact sorry e up malcolm feeling guilty Edited November 22, 2012 by bw double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostylion Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 National league professional....your having a laugh arnt you bwd???.the nl always was a training league...now it seems to be lacking any real purpose or direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backless Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Disgraceful they have not beenm tapped or spken to by Stoke Lets see who they join Malcolm Vasey Do you mean that it's disgraceful that Dave Tattum has failed to tap anyone up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rami Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) The top riders in the NL should be moving into the PL each season, leaving the bottom five in the team plus two new youngsters for the following year. All the best Rob Thats exactly the problem but its the bspa who are to blame, Why not bring in a rule where every prem league club has to have 2 under 21 brits in the team each year, poland do it, sweden do it and thats why we are miles behind them as a speedway nation. Only today Joe Jacobs was moaning on facebook about how his rolling average was over 9 points but still not a single call from a PL promoter, Joes good enough to be a PL reserve and that would free up a place at mildenhall for a new kid to come through. So im sorry to all the people who want to blame Dudley for every problem in british speedway but maybe the BSPA should be taking a little bit of the blame. Edited November 22, 2012 by rami 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) National league professional....your having a laugh arnt you bwd???.the nl always was a training league...now it seems to be lacking any real purpose or direction. That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? What is the purpose of the National League? For me, it is a stepping stone to bigger things. It's there to produce riders for the Premier League and Elite League. Where things go wrong is when clubs start to push up the costs to going all-out to win. The way to win the National League is by developing your own riders; not to take them from elsewhere. All the best Rob Edited November 22, 2012 by lucifer sam 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 More biased and complete rubbish from a Heathens fan, one of the main clubs responsible for the demise of the National League by their failure to apply points money limits for their riders. I was ridiculed for stating that the National League was losing its way but to lose a club like Scunthorpe who have produced some of the brightest British talents over the last few seasons is staggering. The National League is supposed to be a development league and is being forced into a different level by certain clubs who employ elite league riders. An issue that should never be allowed. How on earth do people expect riders to compete with such riders who are sponsored and riding engines that will be highly tuned and way way beyond the affordability of most National League riders. I trust the BSPA take full notice of Scunthorpes position and think long and hard about the direction of the National League. hahaha - words fail me right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thats exactly the problem but its the bspa who are to blame, Why not bring in a rule where every prem league club has to have 2 under 21 brits in the team each year, poland do it, sweden do it and thats why we are miles behind them as a speedway nation. Only today Joe Jacobs was moaning on facebook about how his rolling average was over 9 points but still not a single call from a PL promoter, Joes good enough to be a PL reserve and that would free up a place at mildenhall for a new kid to come through. So im sorry to all the people who want to blame Dudley for every problem in british speedway but maybe the BSPA should be taking a little bit of the blame. i dont think you could blame the BSPA to be honest because at the end of the day the BSPA are the clubs,so maybe point the finger at them ,i.e all of them would have to agreee to it,Joe must feel a little hard done by though with his parent club using a 3 pointer and over looking him but that Louis call,maybe it will work maybe it wont I think Jayne from Buxton made a valid point on a previous thread that the money in the NL these day tips towards riders staying in the NL for easy money rather than wanting to progress They have to find a way of getting rider like Perry,Nielsen etc out of the NL and on to a better standard of racing quicker, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy bill Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 i agree its about time the b s p a or whoever started to order the premire league to sign more riders out of the national league every year prem teams are allowed to have forign riders at res its not the way to go national league riders get to a point were they are good enough to be given a chance at res but hit a brick wall because the prem teams seem to prefair to bring in jonny some from other country instead of giving a chance to a britt who as searved his apprenticship in the national ;league get a grip make it a rule every team must have at least one rider from the national league in the team every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Well its been announced where one of the saints has gone next year anyone surprised where it was!!!! Mind you im sure we will be told it was a rush signing after clubs were told the saints were not running but just so happens to be thier first announced signing!! I hope rob is charging full loan fees this year i know he did them free/cheap originally to help get the riders more racing especially when doubling up but now its a different ball game. And then if he pools the loan fees together can save it up for the next genereation of saints when we come back Edited November 22, 2012 by The Scunthorpe bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Disgraceful they have not beenm tapped or spken to by Stoke Lets see who they join Malcolm Vasey Well Malcolm, I'm sure one of the teams in question wouldn't be daft enough to announce the signing on the very same day that the Saints announce their withdrawal... or would they? All the best Rob Edited November 22, 2012 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 This highlights a problem within the sport that different teams in the National League having differing agenda's. On the one hand you have clubs that are in it to train riders up for their Senior teams. And others that are in it to win league titles, and want the glory, and will pay good wages compared to the other clubs. I don't think that you can seriously call it a Development League any more. Its difficult to know what to do as you can see things from both sides, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villiers210 Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 i dont think you could blame the BSPA to be honest because at the end of the day the BSPA are the clubs,so maybe point the finger at them ,i.e all of them would have to agreee to it,Joe must feel a little hard done by though with his parent club using a 3 pointer and over looking him but that Louis call,maybe it will work maybe it wont I think Jayne from Buxton made a valid point on a previous thread that the money in the NL these day tips towards riders staying in the NL for easy money rather than wanting to progress They have to find a way of getting rider like Perry,Nielsen etc out of the NL and on to a better standard of racing quicker, i dont think you could blame the BSPA to be honest because at the end of the day the BSPA are the clubs,so maybe point the finger at them ,i.e all of them would have to agreee to it,Joe must feel a little hard done by though with his parent club using a 3 pointer and over looking him but that Louis call,maybe it will work maybe it wont I think Jayne from Buxton made a valid point on a previous thread that the money in the NL these day tips towards riders staying in the NL for easy money rather than wanting to progress They have to find a way of getting rider like Perry,Nielsen etc out of the NL and on to a better standard of racing quicker, Thanks for that. I was wondering who's turn it was going to be to receive the "he shouldnt be riding NL" now that Adam Roynon is out of the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) Okay, lets see Dudley sit back and let everyone else sign the best riders, what a load of old cobblers is spoken on here sometimes, do you think the supporters would be happy ? of course not, and Im sure Rob Godfrey informed his riders before today, as June said she knew on Tuesday, so its pretty safe to surmise the riders also knew prior to today. If an NL rider such as JJ cant get a phone call from a PL team, its Dudleys fault i guess. Lets put it this way its British Speedways fault NOT Bl**dy Dudleys, We will work within the 40 points limit, and i expect a 1 over the 8 limit to be in there somewhere. However one cannot blame riders for taking the best package offered to them, to help maintain the best equipment that they can afford to help them try to get a PL place. Nigel Pearson openly admitted riders are constantly phoning him wanting to ride for Dudley, what would you do ? tell them to go to Mildenhall?, its obvious riders prefer to ride in front of a packed house week in week out, and where they get tremendous help from HSSC, with monetry donations. If i knew my Team wasnt riding next season, i would soon make it known that i was going to be available, starting from the Top. What a load of twaddle, which stems mostly from jealousy... Edited November 22, 2012 by greyhoundp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thanks for that. I was wondering who's turn it was going to be to receive the "he shouldnt be riding NL" now that Adam Roynon is out of the picture. Would you be so kind as to point out where i have said that anyone shouldnt be in the league???,i said you have to get the better riders to a higher standard or racing, What a load of twaddle, which stems mostly from jealousy... Jealously....hahahaha you aint won a bloody egg cup !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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