2013 Best Ever Gp Line Up?

[iris123]

................and my point is that you cannot have the BEST field ever if Woffinden takes his place instead of a previous GP Winner (Jensen).

 

I have no axe to grind with Woffy - but - the ONLY reason he is in the GP Series is because he is BRITISH (sort of).

 

Well - I am sorry but in my book getting in because of your Nationality is just not right. In fact it is DEAD WRONG!!! :mad:

Sure most would agree that Tai in normal circumstances should never have got the decision before Jepsen Jensen.But finances and maybe more importantly tv coverage have an important part to play.I am getting the feeling that tai has been put in to attract a tv deal.Either continuing with SKY or it would surely be important to have a GB rider in to attract a new company?Would myself much rather have Liglad in,but can understand,although don't agree with the decision on this basis

[The White Knight]

Sure most would agree that Tai in normal circumstances should never have got the decision before Jepsen Jensen.But finances and maybe more importantly tv coverage have an important part to play.I am getting the feeling that tai has been put in to attract a tv deal.Either continuing with SKY or it would surely be important to have a GB rider in to attract a new company?Would myself much rather have Liglad in,but can understand,although don't agree with the decision on this basis

 

THIS is why I complain about the GP Qualification System Iris123.

 

Another possible reason is to make sure that somebody pseudo British is riding at Cardiff (give the locals something to cheer) - ie. Put 'bums' on seats. This could also be done via the 'Wild Card' System. Another rather pathetic System designed to increase Attendances at the various Tracks (it has certainly nothing to do with Sport). Do they not realise that this particular bit of jiggery pokery is costing a bona fide Rider, with a chance of winning the World Championship a place in the Competition? As you say - the Television (SKY) may have had something to do with it too - it doesn't matter - it is wrong.

 

For heavens sake - let's get back to Riders being in the GPs because they have qualified and NOT because of where they come from. Speedway lacks credibility in SO many ways - that should NOT be evidenced in it's, so called, premier Events.

[oldace]

THIS is why I complain about the GP Qualification System Iris123.

 

Another possible reason is to make sure that somebody pseudo British is riding at Cardiff (give the locals something to cheer) - ie. Put 'bums' on seats. This could also be done via the 'Wild Card' System. Another rather pathetic System designed to increase Attendances at the various Tracks (it has certainly nothing to do with Sport). Do they not realise that this particular bit of jiggery pokery is costing a bona fide Rider, with a chance of winning the World Championship a place in the Competition? As you say - the Television (SKY) may have had something to do with it too - it doesn't matter - it is wrong.

 

For heavens sake - let's get back to Riders being in the GPs because they have qualified and NOT because of where they come from. Speedway lacks credibility in SO many ways - that should NOT be evidenced in it's, so called, premier Events.

 

Now you are starting to argue with yourself Ian

 

In the past you have extolled the virtues of the old system where the underdog can be world champion, you have cited 1973 as a typical example od this.

 

In 1973 we had a very poor rider who hadn't qualified to be there winning the event and yet you think this was great but you think it not right that Woffy is there. And in that year 5 riders were gifted places on the strength of nationality. The swedes were given 5 the year after although they held a final to decide the five, the Brits were given 4 in 1978.

 

For what it is worth plenty of people agree with you on the Woffinden thing but you lose credibility when you keep suggesting a tried, and patently worse, system be implemented

[iris123]

Exactly as the man said.......i don't think anyone at any time has ever said the system we have now is perfect.It has its faults.But for sure it is way way better than what we had before.Only a few Luddites won't have it and we have heard the flawed arguments against it 1,000 times by now

[The White Knight]

Now you are starting to argue with yourself Ian

 

In the past you have extolled the virtues of the old system where the underdog can be world champion, you have cited 1973 as a typical example od this.

 

In 1973 we had a very poor rider who hadn't qualified to be there winning the event and yet you think this was great but you think it not right that Woffy is there. And in that year 5 riders were gifted places on the strength of nationality. The swedes were given 5 the year after although they held a final to decide the five, the Brits were given 4 in 1978.

 

For what it is worth plenty of people agree with you on the Woffinden thing but you lose credibility when you keep suggesting a tried, and patently worse, system be implemented

 

I agree that the old System was not perfect but we are supposed to have progressed - I just think that instead of sticking with the very flawed System that we have at present we should be trying to find a workable System that is Fair to all.

 

Surely THAT is not impossible - or - is it?

 

Exactly as the man said.......i don't think anyone at any time has ever said the system we have now is perfect.It has its faults.But for sure it is way way better than what we had before.Only a few Luddites won't have it and we have heard the flawed arguments against it 1,000 times by now

 

Ah well - I'm off to smash up a few Looms now. :shock:

[ShadowCaptain]

I agree that the old System was not perfect but we are supposed to have progressed

 

But we HAVE progreessed, TWK. The old qualification system almost ensured that all the best riders in the world were NOT in the final, because qualification took place on a geographical system. If, to make an extreme example, the best riders in the world were almost exclusively Danish and Swedish, then many of them would have been excluded, because their qualification route would be through the Nordic final. Similarly, there would be British riders who could get through quite easily, through the British final and, perhaps, the Inter-Continental final, whereas there is hardly a British rider who is worth a place in a World Championship in any format.

 

Chris Holder would not have had a route to the final, unless he became 'British' for the qualifiers, and that would not be acceptable to those who claim that Tai should not be in the GP series because he is not 'British'.

 

Even if Tai Woffinden is in the GP series as a token, the line-up for the series is VERY strong.

 

Would TWK prefer it if there was a single F1 world final, with other countries staging qualifying rounds that anybody could enter? The world champion in any sport should be required to beat 'the best of the rest' consistently, and in changing conditions.

[The White Knight]

But we HAVE progreessed, TWK. The old qualification system almost ensured that all the best riders in the world were NOT in the final, because qualification took place on a geographical system. If, to make an extreme example, the best riders in the world were almost exclusively Danish and Swedish, then many of them would have been excluded, because their qualification route would be through the Nordic final. Similarly, there would be British riders who could get through quite easily, through the British final and, perhaps, the Inter-Continental final, whereas there is hardly a British rider who is worth a place in a World Championship in any format.

 

Chris Holder would not have had a route to the final, unless he became 'British' for the qualifiers, and that would not be acceptable to those who claim that Tai should not be in the GP series because he is not 'British'.

 

Even if Tai Woffinden is in the GP series as a token, the line-up for the series is VERY strong.

 

Would TWK prefer it if there was a single F1 world final, with other countries staging qualifying rounds that anybody could enter? The world champion in any sport should be required to beat 'the best of the rest' consistently, and in changing conditions.

 

As I said in my earlier Post - surely it is not beyond the whit of man to find a System that is fair to all. I, at least partly, agree with you about the old System for the 'one off' World Finals - but - 'two wrongs do not make a right'. I STILL don't believe that Woofinden should be in the GP Series - ther should be NO PLACE for TOKENS as you put it.

 

As for Formula One - I am not really interested, nor do I care what happens in that Sport - I support Speedway - about that I DO care.

[ShadowCaptain]

As I said in my earlier Post - surely it is not beyond the whit of man to find a System that is fair to all. I, at least partly, agree with you about the old System for the 'one off' World Finals - but - 'two wrongs do not make a right'. I STILL don't believe that Woofinden should be in the GP Series - ther should be NO PLACE for TOKENS as you put it.

 

As for Formula One - I am not really interested, nor do I care what happens in that Sport - I support Speedway - about that I DO care.

 

At the high levels, sport is no longer pure. High level sport is primarily for entertainment and, mostly, exists because there are companies prepared to pay enough money to keep the sport going in exchange for advertising. There may be a fair system for selecting riders for the GP series, but that fair system is not required by the organisations who own the GP series. Their objective, depending upon the company and the sport, is either to maximise their profit from the sport, or minimise the cost of their associated advertising. There are very few sports that could continue to survive without commercial support, and if IMG want Tai Woffinden in the GP series to maximise their profit from Cardiff or to help a deal with a broadcaster, then that is business, and the purist can rail, but it is not going to change.

 

When has speedway been any different in that respect? When speedway tracks had attendances in thousands and tens of thousands, the majority of the promoters were in the business to make a profit by entertaining and attracting the supporters. They were not there to run speedway, with the crowds as a by-product. It is with the decline in attendances that more promoters are running speedway for the sport, not for the profit, and are reliant upon external funding to keep their tracks open.

[The White Knight]

At the high levels, sport is no longer pure. High level sport is primarily for entertainment and, mostly, exists because there are companies prepared to pay enough money to keep the sport going in exchange for advertising. There may be a fair system for selecting riders for the GP series, but that fair system is not required by the organisations who own the GP series. Their objective, depending upon the company and the sport, is either to maximise their profit from the sport, or minimise the cost of their associated advertising. There are very few sports that could continue to survive without commercial support, and if IMG want Tai Woffinden in the GP series to maximise their profit from Cardiff or to help a deal with a broadcaster, then that is business, and the purist can rail, but it is not going to change.

 

When has speedway been any different in that respect? When speedway tracks had attendances in thousands and tens of thousands, the majority of the promoters were in the business to make a profit by entertaining and attracting the supporters. They were not there to run speedway, with the crowds as a by-product. It is with the decline in attendances that more promoters are running speedway for the sport, not for the profit, and are reliant upon external funding to keep their tracks open.

 

You are giving me my point here SC. Obviously the financial returns from the GP series outweigh the Sporting necessity to find the TRUE World Champion. Who knows? Michel Jepsen Jensen could possibly have won the Title in 2013 - we will never know now. I am only using him as an example, but, as I say, he could possibly have won the whole thing - sadly I reckon there is absolutely no chance of Tai doing so. I wish there was..............................

 

Also, as I have said previously - it does not make it right. (the selection process).

Edited December 2, 2012 by The White Knight

[Gavan]

Unless all 16 riders are picked by an independent panel then it highly unlikely you will get the best 16. The whole point of my thread is that this IS THE BEST GP LINE UP.

 

Correct Tai shouldnt be there but thats one rider. Under the old system and old qualification process you would have a world final where maybe 7 or 8 riders shouldnt be there. Look at Munich 89!!!

 

In any process there will always be a rider who my miss out. This year we are all only talking about MJJ versus Tai.

[The White Knight]

Unless all 16 riders are picked by an independent panel then it highly unlikely you will get the best 16. The whole point of my thread is that this IS THE BEST GP LINE UP.

 

Correct Tai shouldnt be there but thats one rider. Under the old system and old qualification process you would have a world final where maybe 7 or 8 riders shouldnt be there. Look at Munich 89!!!

 

In any process there will always be a rider who my miss out. This year we are all only talking about MJJ versus Tai.

 

As I said - I only used MJJ as an example.

[racers and royals]

Don`t think i have read this before-AJ has parted company with Carl Blomfelt

[PHILIPRISING]

Don`t think i have read this before-AJ has parted company with Carl Blomfelt

 

THAT happened before the end of last season ... Carl wasn't with AJ in Torun.

[PHILIPRISING]

INCIDENTALLY, there was talk that Carl had been offered a bundle by the father of a young Polish prospect to help further his career.

[The Know]

INCIDENTALLY, there was talk that Carl had been offered a bundle by the father of a young Polish prospect to help further his career.

 

think Carl has lot his touch now, no longer the top tuner he was and AJ went backwards last year. Not all carls fault as AJ does not have the desire or need to suceed anymore. Still not had me star Phill, lol.

[PHILIPRISING]

think Carl has lot his touch now, no longer the top tuner he was and AJ went backwards last year. Not all carls fault as AJ does not have the desire or need to suceed anymore. Still not had me star Phill, lol.

 

STILL out of the country... will send one this week. Just don't tell everyone!

[The White Knight]

STILL out of the country... will send one this week. Just don't tell everyone!

 

:rofl:

[BWitcher]

Couldn't agree more.............. :approve:

 

 

 

But it IS the unpredictability of it that makes Speedway what it is. More predictable these days because of a number of silly Rules I believe.

 

Regarding the best Rider sometimes doesn't win - brings me back to 1973 when Jerzy Sczakiel became World Champion - few would argue that he was the best Rider in the World, but, by golly he was on the night.

 

That was the beauty of Speedway.

 

I always love posters like WK..

 

Here he tells us how it's the undpredictability of it that makes speedway what it is. Oh the beauty of Speedway that a rider like Jerzy Sczakiel could become World Champion when everyone knew he wasn't the best in the world....

 

But.. lo and behold should the team who doesn't finish top of the league win the play-offs, no longer does undpredictablity make speedway what it is... No wonder is it the beauty of speedway. All of a sudden its the biggest sporting debacle in history!

[oldace]

I always love posters like WK..

 

Here he tells us how it's the undpredictability of it that makes speedway what it is. Oh the beauty of Speedway that a rider like Jerzy Sczakiel could become World Champion when everyone knew he wasn't the best in the world....

 

But.. lo and behold should the team who doesn't finish top of the league win the play-offs, no longer does undpredictablity make speedway what it is... No wonder is it the beauty of speedway. All of a sudden its the biggest sporting debacle in history!

 

You have to love him dont you.

 

We now have possibly 15 of the best 16 riders in the world competing for the world championship and it is a farce because of 1 rider who isn't there on merit

 

Then he cites 1973 as how it should be with 5 riders not there on merit and one of those who was nowhere near world class getting a lucky win.

[Gavan]

oldace - my points exactly!! the title of my thread is 2013 best gp line up. which i think it is. we have only 1 rider who maybe shouldnt be there where as in the old one offs we often had 4,5 or 6. His argument about fairness is flawed