SPEEDY69 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 But Iversen, arguably the best rider in the world this season (number 2 in Poland and number 1 in Sweden) wasn't able to compete to be World Champion this year was he. Therefore, if you really need me to repeat what I've said yet again, it's not necessarily the best rider who becomes world champion - I don't mind that, it's this variety and unpredictability which I like. I do think though that all of them should have a chance to qualify and fight for the title in the same year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 But Iversen, arguably the best rider in the world this season (number 2 in Poland and number 1 in Sweden) wasn't able to compete to be World Champion this year was he. Therefore, if you really need me to repeat what I've said yet again, it's not necessarily the best rider who becomes world champion - I don't mind that, it's this variety and unpredictability which I like. I do think though that all of them should have a chance to qualify and fight for the title in the same year. Yeah well like i said, friday it is and friday it will stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 But Iversen, arguably the best rider in the world this season (number 2 in Poland and number 1 in Sweden) wasn't able to compete to be World Champion this year was he. Therefore, if you really need me to repeat what I've said yet again, it's not necessarily the best rider who becomes world champion - I don't mind that, it's this variety and unpredictability which I like. I do think though that all of them should have a chance to qualify and fight for the title in the same year. Couldn't agree more.............. :approve: So, NP was the top rider in Poland this year and second behind Iversen in Sweden. These are the two toughest leagues and you still think Holder was the 'best rider' last year do you? All I'm saying is that whatever system is in place, it's not necessarily the so called 'best rider' who becomes World Champion. But it IS the unpredictability of it that makes Speedway what it is. More predictable these days because of a number of silly Rules I believe. Regarding the best Rider sometimes doesn't win - brings me back to 1973 when Jerzy Sczakiel became World Champion - few would argue that he was the best Rider in the World, but, by golly he was on the night. That was the beauty of Speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Regarding the best Rider sometimes doesn't win - brings me back to 1973 when Jerzy Sczakiel became World Champion - few would argue that he was the best Rider in the World, but, by golly he was on the night. Was he ? he may has won but he got lucky by all accounts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Was he ? he may has won but he got lucky by all accounts . Yes he did orion - but - that was my point. The unpredictability of Speedway is one of it's main Assets. Sadly the GP Series has watered down the Competition for World Champion. You would not get a Jerzy Sczakiel winning the World Championship these days - only, perhaps, a GP. THAT is the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yes he did orion - but - that was my point. The unpredictability of Speedway is one of it's main Assets. Sadly the GP Series has watered down the Competition for World Champion. You would not get a Jerzy Sczakiel winning the World Championship these days - only, perhaps, a GP. THAT is the difference. Why would you want someone who is not good enough or just got lucky to be world champion ? The Gp has hardly watered down the competition as it has the best riders are in it, unlike the old world final .. You moan to hell about tac subs etc but like one off world finals that were a lottery full of riders who should have not been there in the first place . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Why would you want someone who is not good enough or just got lucky to be world champion ? The Gp has hardly watered down the competition as it has the best riders are in it, unlike the old world final .. You moan to hell about tac subs etc but like one off world finals that were a lottery full of riders who should have not been there in the first place . That's your opinion orion - it is not mine. You are entitled to your view as I am to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 That's your opinion orion - it is not mine. You are entitled to your view as I am to mine. Not a opinion, i ask you a question ...yet another topic where you show double standards . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Why would you want someone who is not good enough or just got lucky to be world champion ? The Gp has hardly watered down the competition as it has the best riders are in it, unlike the old world final .. You moan to hell about tac subs etc but like one off world finals that were a lottery full of riders who should have not been there in the first place . Sorry - I did not answer your question - no double standards - just didn't. To answer, as I thought I had in previous Posts - the UNPREDICTABILITY of it all - THAT is why. Sometimes it is good when the underdog wins. You, it appears, just want the 'same old, same old'. That is your opinion, as I said - I don't agree with it - BUT - I respect it. Perhaps you should try respecting the other person's point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Sorry - I did not answer your question - no double standards - just didn't. To answer, as I thought I had in previous Posts - the UNPREDICTABILITY of it all - THAT is why. Sometimes it is good when the underdog wins. You, it appears, just want the 'same old, same old'. That is your opinion, as I said - I don't agree with it - BUT - I respect it. Perhaps you should try respecting the other person's point of view. But you don't like the unpredictability of the play offs or tac subs ? as i said double standards . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Billy Hamill 1996 Mark Loram 2000 Chris Holder 2012 predictable world champions........no world class...................yes the gp will have the cream of the crop this year i defy you to pick a winner! the one offs when i was growing up were either Nielsen or Gundersen before that Mauger and Olsen and yes the gp had Rickardsson if you want a one off world final on maybe a slick track in Denmark and see an engine failure or a fall from a Holder or Ward and Pavlic have a blinder then be my guest. you talk about 1973 imagine watching Szczkiel after the final and someone going for the first time at another meeting "isnt that the world champion?" "yes" "then why is he always at the back" "because he got in the final via an eastern block ruling had one good night and is the best in the world" "well if the world champion is that bad im not coming again" And whoever said Iversen was the best in the world this year....................seriously!!!!!!!!!!!! He had a good year but could he have been world champion no! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 But you don't like the unpredictability of the play offs or tac subs ? as i said double standards . You are right - I can't stand EITHER of them. Double Standards RUBBISH. I have differing views to you and that is all. The League (Double Points) and the 'Play Offs' have absolutely NOTHING to do with this Thread. Continue to carp on if you must - but - you are on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Billy Hamill 1996 Mark Loram 2000 Chris Holder 2012 predictable world champions........no world class...................yes the gp will have the cream of the crop this year i defy you to pick a winner! the one offs when i was growing up were either Nielsen or Gundersen before that Mauger and Olsen and yes the gp had Rickardsson if you want a one off world final on maybe a slick track in Denmark and see an engine failure or a fall from a Holder or Ward and Pavlic have a blinder then be my guest. you talk about 1973 imagine watching Szczkiel after the final and someone going for the first time at another meeting "isnt that the world champion?" "yes" "then why is he always at the back" "because he got in the final via an eastern block ruling had one good night and is the best in the world" "well if the world champion is that bad im not coming again" And whoever said Iversen was the best in the world this year....................seriously!!!!!!!!!!!! He had a good year but could he have been world champion no! I don't really feel like we're having a debate here as you continually keep diverting the argument into a one-off versus GP issue, which is not the point both White Knight and I are making. Therefore this is the last I'll say on the subject.Referring to the last two sentences of your post, did I say Iversen was the best in the world? However, let's go with it, the evidence to support that suggestion is that he was way ahead of Holder and other GP 'stars' in both the Polish and Swedish leagues and had an excellent World Cup. What else could he have done to convince you that he had the potential to be World Champ this year if he had had the opportunity - which he didn't due to the system of selecting riders this year for next year, up to 4 of whom are for commercial reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 If NKI had the added burden of a GP season there is now way he would have averaged what he did in Sweden and Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 You are right - I can't stand EITHER of them. Double Standards RUBBISH. I have differing views to you and that is all. The League (Double Points) and the 'Play Offs' have absolutely NOTHING to do with this Thread. Continue to carp on if you must - but - you are on your own. I can understand that people like, or otherwise, certain aspects of the sport (tac rides, play offs etc) but I really cant comprehend how anyone can advocate a sytem whereby the sports world champion can be nowhere near the best in the world at his chosen profession. The excitement of an underdog winning something is OK for a clubs once a season individual event (although no one has them anymore) but not as a way of determining a world champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I can understand that people like, or otherwise, certain aspects of the sport (tac rides, play offs etc) but I really cant comprehend how anyone can advocate a sytem whereby the sports world champion can be nowhere near the best in the world at his chosen profession. The excitement of an underdog winning something is OK for a clubs once a season individual event (although no one has them anymore) but not as a way of determining a world champion THAT is one view oldace - and I respect it. I just don't agree with you in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 i understand its an opinion but i cant understand why anyone would now prefer the one off world final. You could have a bad track for a world final (Norden, Pocking and the weather in Wroclaw for example) where that palys a huge part. Yes you could have a bad track for 2 or 3 in the gp but not 12. The atmosphere may have been better in the one off i give you that but the quality of racing and overall product is nowhere near what we have now. I didnt like the gp with 24 riders in it and 2 rides and bye bye that was a lottery sometimes, you could have an ef then out in the very next race and wrong set up and home you go! but to get back on topic........ Next year promises to be the best gp series ever with no old faces that have no chance (bjarne, hans , ljung, pepe and the like) If you can name me a world final line up that is better than next years series for quality then i will be amazed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 i understand its an opinion but i cant understand why anyone would now prefer the one off world final. You could have a bad track for a world final (Norden, Pocking and the weather in Wroclaw for example) where that palys a huge part. Yes you could have a bad track for 2 or 3 in the gp but not 12. The atmosphere may have been better in the one off i give you that but the quality of racing and overall product is nowhere near what we have now. I didnt like the gp with 24 riders in it and 2 rides and bye bye that was a lottery sometimes, you could have an ef then out in the very next race and wrong set up and home you go! but to get back on topic........ Next year promises to be the best gp series ever with no old faces that have no chance (bjarne, hans , ljung, pepe and the like) If you can name me a world final line up that is better than next years series for quality then i will be amazed It probably WON'T be on the Television though - SKY have seen to that. As for the Riders in next years GPs - they SHOULD be good - they have been 'PICKED' because they are the BEST Riders, and that is my point 'PICKED'. If you can tell me how Tai Wooffinden gets in to the Series and Michael Jepsen Jensen doesn't, and then say that it is a level playing field to qualify for the World Championship - I would be interested in hearing your reasoning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 You know as well as i do it will never be a level playing field if it was one off or gp series. In the old days you had an injury or ef stopping someone qualifying its the same now. MJJ had a chance to qualify and messed it up and yes he should be there ahead of Woffy. My point is this is the best field ever and you would never get a line up like this in a world final Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 (edited) You know as well as i do it will never be a level playing field if it was one off or gp series. In the old days you had an injury or ef stopping someone qualifying its the same now. MJJ had a chance to qualify and messed it up and yes he should be there ahead of Woffy. My point is this is the best field ever and you would never get a line up like this in a world final ................and my point is that you cannot have the BEST field ever if Woffinden takes his place instead of a previous GP Winner (Jensen). I have no axe to grind with Woffy - but - the ONLY reason he is in the GP Series is because he is BRITISH (sort of). Well - I am sorry but in my book getting in because of your Nationality is just not right. In fact it is DEAD WRONG!!! :mad: Edited November 22, 2012 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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