The White Knight Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 put everyone through qualifiers? dont agree with that sorry. yes it used to be like that i know but we had a lot of dead wood in most finals as the eastern block got their quota. also an injury or an engine failure could rob us of the best riders. nope sorry im all for the top 8 qualifying, and riders like Hampel deserve their place after injury. 4 wildcards and a qualifying system is fine and has insured that we have a great line up this year. who would want a qualifying system where say Holder picks up an injury and Emil has 2 engine failures and Ward has an off night and so on and so on. Would love a system where we could get Protasiewicz and Bjarne and Walasek back in the grand prix!! Why don't you just award the sixteen places to the Riders you like - and then nobody else will have a chance? Ooops!! I forgot. That is the way it is going these days................................................ :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 no white knight what i want is as close as possible to the 15 best riders in the world in the series is that hard to understand? the one off world final was more dramatic but an injury or engine failure could rob you. Look at Jan O Pedersen he missed 2 finals with injury! can you say that we had the worlds best last year? surely Ward, Vaculik, Iversen, Kasprzak, Zagar are better than Hans, Bjarne and Ljung? its got nothing to do with favourites or would you prefer to see Walasek, Pepe, and the like? i know what i would rather see. This way we get the top 8 from the last season, then if they dont qualify for whatever reason we get the next best (i.e Ward and Hampel) followed by 3 guys who deserve it by qualifying (Iversen and the like) it should be a great season in my opinion. as i said earlier pick your top 8 not that easy is it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 no white knight what i want is as close as possible to the 15 best riders in the world in the series is that hard to understand? the one off world final was more dramatic but an injury or engine failure could rob you. Look at Jan O Pedersen he missed 2 finals with injury! can you say that we had the worlds best last year? surely Ward, Vaculik, Iversen, Kasprzak, Zagar are better than Hans, Bjarne and Ljung? its got nothing to do with favourites or would you prefer to see Walasek, Pepe, and the like? i know what i would rather see. This way we get the top 8 from the last season, then if they dont qualify for whatever reason we get the next best (i.e Ward and Hampel) followed by 3 guys who deserve it by qualifying (Iversen and the like) it should be a great season in my opinion. as i said earlier pick your top 8 not that easy is it!! I don't want to 'PICK' my top eight, their top eight or anybodies top eight - I want them ALL to b****y QUALIFY through Qualifying Meetings. That is all I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I don't want to 'PICK' my top eight, their top eight or anybodies top eight - I want them ALL to b****y QUALIFY through Qualifying Meetings. That is all I want. Er, I think you're missing his point. I believe he's asking who you think will finish in the top eight next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Er, I think you're missing his point. I believe he's asking who you think will finish in the top eight next year. oooops!! You are right. Apologies Gavan - I read it the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I don't want to 'PICK' my top eight, their top eight or anybodies top eight - I want them ALL to b****y QUALIFY through Qualifying Meetings. That is all I want. Just what we need on a congested fixture list,more qualifying meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) I don't want to 'PICK' my top eight, their top eight or anybodies top eight - I want them ALL to b****y QUALIFY through Qualifying Meetings. That is all I want. So you want a system that denies the best riders in the word a chance to qualfy, like the one we used to have. A system where a country like England had PC, Chris Morton, Malcolm Simmons, John Louis, Gordon Kennet, Dave Jessup, Doug Wyer etc. All capable of making the World final in 1978 but for a qualyiying system that allowed no more than 4 of them through. Or a country like the USA in the late 70s who had Penhall, Sigalos, Schwartz, the Morans, Autrey all world class but no more than 2 could go through. There has never ever been totally open qualifying whereby the worlds best 16 could make the final. Ok so we now have 4 seeds who are usually among the best in the world but that is preferable to having 5 seeds who were never anywhere near the best in the world merely because the continentals were gifted 5 places in the world final. I too attended many finals and enjoyed them immensely but it beggars belief that now that we have a genuine world championship contested by arguably the best 16 riders in the world, that anyone would hanker for a return to a system so flawed as in the old days. Edited November 12, 2012 by oldace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 So you want a system that denies the best riders in the word a chance to qualfy, like the one we used to have. A system where a country like England had PC, Chris Morton, Malcolm Simmons, John Louis, Gordon Kennet, Dave Jessup, Doug Wyer etc. All capable of making the World final in 1978 but for a qualyiying system that allowed no more than 4 of them through. Or a country like the USA in the late 70s who had Penhall, Sigalos, Schwartz, the Morans, Autrey all world class but no more than 2 could go through. There has never ever been totally open qualifying whereby the worlds best 16 could make the final. Ok so we now have 4 seeds who are usually among the best in the world but that is preferable to having 5 seeds who were never anywhere near the best in the world merely because the continentals were gifted 5 places in the world final. I too attended many finals and enjoyed them immensely but it beggars belief that now that we have a genuine world championship contested by arguably the best 16 riders in the world, that anyone would hanker for a return to a system so flawed as in the old days. I agree about the Eastern Block getting their allocation of Riders to the World Final was wrong and devalued the Competition - but - now the Eastern Block no longer exists. We could now have a FAIR Qualifying System for ALL Riders - if you make the Top Sixteen you get to the Final (GPs or whatever) if you don't make it - you don't. No avenues for anyone else to get there apart from the Qualifying Rounds. If there is no British Rider qualifying for the top Sixteen - tough, if Greg Hancock misses out in a Qualifying Round - tough, if Chris Holder can't make it - tough. THAT is what true Sport is about - success or failure. If people want the GP Series - then fine - but - for heavens sake let's ensure that we get the best Rider, that year, as World Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree about the Eastern Block getting their allocation of Riders to the World Final was wrong and devalued the Competition - but - now the Eastern Block no longer exists. We could now have a FAIR Qualifying System for ALL Riders - if you make the Top Sixteen you get to the Final (GPs or whatever) if you don't make it - you don't. No avenues for anyone else to get there apart from the Qualifying Rounds. If there is no British Rider qualifying for the top Sixteen - tough, if Greg Hancock misses out in a Qualifying Round - tough, if Chris Holder can't make it - tough. THAT is what true Sport is about - success or failure. If people want the GP Series - then fine - but - for heavens sake let's ensure that we get the best Rider, that year, as World Champion. For goodness sake, that is what the current system is all about. You have been banging the drum for a return to world champions like Szackiel and Muller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 For goodness sake, that is what the current system is all about. You have been banging the drum for a return to world champions like Szackiel and Muller So what - the unexpected can still be entertaining you know - it shouldn't be the same old faces every year. Year in year out it is currently the same old faces in the GPs. The whole thing needs shaking up - we have had two Forty plus year old World Champions because of the current System - why are people so frightened of opening the whole thing up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 So what - the unexpected can still be entertaining you know - it shouldn't be the same old faces every year. Year in year out it is currently the same old faces in the GPs. The whole thing needs shaking up - we have had two Forty plus year old World Champions because of the current System - why are people so frightened of opening the whole thing up? Christ, name me one rider not in the GP's from the last ten years who had a genuine chance at being World Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 If people want the GP Series - then fine - but - for heavens sake let's ensure that we get the best Rider, that year, as World Champion. That is exactly what the GP series ensures as far as possible,apart from injury.Or can you point out a year when this didn't happen? Sure we can point out a few years when this didn't happen at the time of the old style world final.Let's face it,you have no reasonable argument against the GPs,other than you don't like them.Ok fair enough and good night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) That is exactly what the GP series ensures as far as possible,apart from injury.Or can you point out a year when this didn't happen? Sure we can point out a few years when this didn't happen at the time of the old style world final.Let's face it,you have no reasonable argument against the GPs,other than you don't like them.Ok fair enough and good night Even Parsoles has stopped banging his anti GP drum! Looks like it's just TWK and that other bird that can't see the woods for the trees... Edited November 12, 2012 by Blazeaway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 And before you say darcy ward, he turned down the chance last season, one would suspect due to the polish one gp rider rule and his " other issue", not due to a lack of desire to be world champ or a flaw in the gp system Sorry that comment was in response to blazeaways question a couple of posts up, can't work out how to quote on this phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Christ, name me one rider not in the GP's from the last ten years who had a genuine chance at being World Champion. Jarek Hampel in 2008 & 2009, and Darcy Ward in 2012? Not that I necessarily agree with the White Knight, but there's two answers to your question. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) For goodness sake, that is what the current system is all about. You have been banging the drum for a return to world champions like Szackiel and Muller Christ, name me one rider not in the GP's from the last ten years who had a genuine chance at being World Champion. Surely White Knight is entitled to his opinion without people expressing frustration at him? Actually, I agree with him about qualification for the World Championship. I too find the current GP series dull simply because there is little riding on each meeting due to the number of rounds. Therefore it doesn't really matter if a rider scores a zero in a GP as there's plenty of points available to still be World Champ at the end. Therefore, it's the pressure of the meeting and unpredictability which I also look forward to. If we simply have the same alleged top riders in the series then why not simply make the World Champion the rider with the highest combined average or race score from the league meetings - ok, this will never happen of course but if you look at the World Cup, it draws interest because it's not simply the best rated nations seeded to the final - they have to qualify. And in response to Blazeaway's question - I'd certainly be able to name loads who have been in the GPs with no realistic chance of being World Champion Edited November 12, 2012 by SPEEDY69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Surely White Knight is entitled to his opinion without people expressing frustration at him? Actually, I agree with him about qualification for the World Championship. I too find the current GP series dull simply because there is little riding on each meeting due to the number of rounds. Therefore it doesn't really matter if a rider scores a zero in a GP as there's plenty of points available to still be World Champ at the end. Therefore, it's the pressure of the meeting and unpredictability which I also look forward to. If we simply have the same alleged top riders in the series then why not simply make the World Champion the rider with the highest combined average or race score from the league meetings - ok, this will never happen of course but if you look at the World Cup, it draws interest because it's not simply the best rated nations seeded to the final - they have to qualify. And in response to Blazeaway's question - I'd certainly be able to name loads who have been in the GPs with no realistic chance of being World Champion Indeed he is, and I have no problems with him not liking the GP but when he starts making patently untrue statements then it is frustrating. Yes World Finals were magnificent events, I went to many and always enjoyed them but the system of qualifying was so badly flawed in that many top riders were prevented from qualifying and many no hopers were seeded in order to ensure a crowd. A qualifying process that was fair and open to all was always totally impractical, it would have needed many qualifiers and repercharges and more qualifiers than would be humanly possible. There is nothing wrong with opinion but to keep merely saying the same thing when it is completely untrue starts to make him (and Derek, and the other silly bint) look a little foolish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 And in response to Blazeaway's question - I'd certainly be able to name loads who have been in the GPs with no realistic chance of being World Champion So could we all......and it shows the problem with a few peoples idea/opinion,because mostly they are the riders who have come through the qualification rounds 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Jarek Hampel in 2008 & 2009, and Darcy Ward in 2012? Not that I necessarily agree with the White Knight, but there's two answers to your question. All the best Rob Hampel won't win a World Championship as long as I have a hole in my ar$e and back then he stood even less a chance. And in response to Blazeaway's question - I'd certainly be able to name loads who have been in the GPs with no realistic chance of being World Champion Er, but that wasn't actually my question. You may as well have answered with "horseradish sauce" or something equally as relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hampel won't win a World Championship as long as I have a hole in my ar$e and back then he stood even less a chance. Er, but that wasn't actually my question. You may as well have answered with "horseradish sauce" or something equally as relevant. Ahh, but that's why I didn't say it was an answer! There is no answer to your question because as we have the GPs, there are only three or so riders actually capable of winning over a lengthy series. So could we all......and it shows the problem with a few peoples idea/opinion,because mostly they are the riders who have come through the qualification rounds Disagree. Many have been there via either 1) wildcards or 2) being in the top 8 from current year e.g. Bjerre, Jonsson, Lindgren (as just 3 examples) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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