Whats Needed In 2013.

[greyhoundp]

Whats needed to improve or even save the NL in 2013 ??

 

I can see a points reduction ahead, and probably to allow a fairer share around of Heat leaders maybe only 1 rider in each Team over 8.

 

Whats your thoughts guys on what is needed for the NL to continue ?. Trial four Heats of 1 lap sprints, during a meeting, and do away with Heat 15, which benefits top heavy Teams, reduce the 6 meetings to get a new average.

[PhilK]

I think alot depends on what happens above - in the PL.

 

A ruling of at least four British riders including both reserve positions would be a good start, providing positions for the many exciting young talents in the NL to progress into.

 

Sort out doubling up and down so British riders are not disadvantaged.

 

Then a reduction in the points limit would work for me, maybe 37.5 - 38?

 

I don't think you need to limit the number of riders above a certain average to be honest, let teams decide how they line up, after all if your want two big hitters you are not going to have a lot for the other five riders.

 

10 teams plus, would be brilliant, then we could have the League season plus Play Offs, and the KOC, and do away with the National Trophy. I know plenty will disagree but you dont need to be riding the same teams up to four times a season in my opinion.

 

Ensure the Cut-Off date is met, say Mid September, then have the finals completed by the first week in October, we dont want a situation like we have had this season. The last three weeks can be for Individuals, end of season challenges etc if clubs want to run them.

 

Although at times things dont seem right with the NL for me it provides excellent entertainment, and I hope it flourishes. After a fine U16 Championship this season, there are good kids coming through, they just need somewhere to move up to, and the NL is the perfect vehicle, this year we have seem Bates, Stoneman, Clegg, Phillips, Carr, Ellis, Neale, Coles, Verge, Graver etc all get their chance with the likes of Greaves, Bailey, Govier, etc following just behind.

 

Good news about Coventry joining the NL, just need two or three more teams to join and none to leave now!

[speedy bill]

i think to help teams save money a revert to say 14 heats just by changing the format by changing heat 13 and 14 around so heat 14 has number 1 and 5 meeting.oposites1 and 5 like heat 13 now.no riders with over a 4 point premire league ave allowed unless he as no premire place but ruled out if he goes premire.averages change after 4 matchess that i think could be a start to cutting cost for some clubs just by dropping one race what you think.

[Islander15]

Coventry joining the NL, have I missed that?

 

Keep averages to be changed at 3 home & 3 away,but include the first round of the KO cup, because everybody is in it!

 

Make sure league meetings, KO cup etc are done by mid-September, so October will see the play-offs and finals only! Whilst these meetings don't have tactical rides.

 

Reduce the points limit to 37.5 or 38, like Philk has said, but I would also make it mandatory that both reserves that start the season have a 3.00 average. And get rid of the stupid 1 rider over 30 rule.

 

I don't understand why this league doesn't allow guests for anyone other than your #1. Surely this can change, to create more even teams in the event of an injury happening with not time to sign anyone (dudley in the play-offs for example).

[Super Blue]

I don't think riders who are scoring decent points in the Elite and Premier league should be allowed to ride in the National league at all ! IMO If you're good enough for Elite you're clearly too good for this one . Admittedly i can only think of one rider who fits this scenario at the moment but still shouldn't happen .

[montie]

First the doubling down to to be fixed,max of i DU rider from the PL,and then if they are in there second year of PL they shouldnt be in the NL,

 

Points limit of 38 max,

 

Prevent like like of Garrity etc joining the league half way through,its no good all this encouragement of riders to step down,

 

New league co-ordinator

 

NL rider championship is NL riders only,if less clubs in the league maybe look at this running over four rounds at stand alone clubs??

 

Firm dates on the cuts off at start of season

 

forget the NL trophy,

 

Encourage the NL riders to ride in every bloody AM meeting there is!!!

[21st century heathen]

What if a NL club has riders that are offered a ride in the PL after the season has started? Does the NL club have to drop those riders? If so consider that each of the Heathens riders had at least one PL outing. How could the team have been rebuilt had they all had to be dropped?

 

I would hate to see any gimmicks such as messing around with the heat format. The points limit is, I believe, already set. I wouldn't want a dramatic drop in the points limit in any case. Watering down the competition at any level will not help our riders in the long run. They need stiff competition to improve. Stability is the key for me. I hate knee-jerk (over)reactions. Forward-planning with carefully through-out ideas is fine, but an ill-considered reaction to something that's happened or not happened this season that's implemented in short-order will almost certainly be doomed to failure. There will always be a redistribution of riders as clubs have to get back under the points limit and there will be some riders moving on and not looking to return to their current NL club as well. Things should be kept fundamentally the same for 2013 with consideration give now to what should be done in 2014. This is regarding rules and reg's not to teams moving up/down from other league's or joining the league if it's a new club.

[montie]

What if a NL club has riders that are offered a ride in the PL after the season has started? Does the NL club have to drop those riders? If so consider that each of the Heathens riders had at least one PL outing. How could the team have been rebuilt had they all had to be dropped?

 

 

 

No,that is progress,and its what is needed,my point was being at the start of the year,and its a good point you make about setting plans for 2014,my fear is that if you dont act now,there wont be a 2013,never mind 2014

 

The other thing is the rules in the NL need some assistance from the PL teams that we would hope the NL feed anyway, by using some of these lads at teh Top end of the NL, some local lads would be nice also in Local PL teams

[TMW]

 

I don't understand why this league doesn't allow guests for anyone other than your #1. Surely this can change, to create more even teams in the event of an injury happening with not time to sign anyone (dudley in the play-offs for example).

 

Because a rider can be absent for any reason due to school commitments/ Parent work commitments without fear of repremande from the powers that be for the team or the rider. It is believed this can lead to teams dropping an underperforming rider and replacing them for a better/more expensive same average rider for key matches. although I don't know if there is any kind of precedent that lead to this rule being introduced as I can't see any current teams doing this,

 

Injuries has proved a problem in the past particularly for PO matches. If teams could regulate themselves to play by the rules but I supose the will to win is possibly too tempting particularly for the stand alone clubs. It would also give other NL riders opportunities to guest when the league is limited. The guest reserve rule has just been tightened up and rightly so, lads need to get on the merry go round somehow, to only a 3.00 point reserve who doesn't have a regular NL place, so I can't see that happening anytime soon

[vog]

Firstly, sort the doubling up rules. I don't believe that having a rider or 2 doubling up is a bad thing, but clubs are left in the lurch when they can't ride. Either allow teams to use 2 riders in that position, or give the NL priority.

 

Points limit is an interesting one. I think 40 is about right. I know that others would disagree, but for me, reducing the limit would lead to a greater gap between PL and NL, and riders would find it even more difficult to progress. At least by having riders such as Birks, Roynon, Garrity, Heeps etc in the league, it gives the guys coming through a good yardstick to test their own ability.

 

Average changes will depend on how many teams. Pointless saying after 2 home and away if you end up with 10 teams, by the same token it's pointless saying 4 h+a if you only have 6. I think a good rule of thumb would be 1/3rd of the way through the season (So, on a 10 team league, 3 home, 3 away)

 

Set the rules in stone. 2 seasons in a row, Mildenhall have done well and won competitions. Both times they have done it with dissenting voices. The rules have too much room for manipulation, and that has been the case for a long time. Clear out the people running the NL, and start again with experienced people who have the sports interest at heart (I appreciate he is the current Stoke manager, but Malcolm would be an ideal choice for this were it not for his affiliation with Stoke)

 

Get all teams to run in the MDL or equivalent. Riders need competition to improve. You never know how fast you are going until you are next to someone else.

 

As an idea that is really out there, every team declares a 6 man team to a 37 point limit. Before each home meeting, there is a vultures race from the development league team associated with that track. Winner gets that team spot until the next home meeting (So covers all away meetings if he can)

[greyhoundp]

Some good ideas there Vog, but remember we also need to get the costs down.

 

The overall points limit has to be reduced, yes i know there will still be 90 points to race and be paid for, but as we are all aware some Teams pay over and above the agreed minimum rate, but a 5/6/7 average rider wont be paid more than an 8+ pointer surely ?.

 

Definately to achieve this only 1 over the 8 in each team, will also help to distribute the Top riders, I dont want to see Dudley/Stoke with 2 X 8 pointers and Buxton & KL with none, 60 point home wins are not what its all about.

 

Heat 15; there is no need for it.

 

Peter Morrish is past his sell by date, bring in someone younger with fresh Ideas, possibly a Committee of three to oversee the running of the NL.

 

The guest rule is far to Harsh, Yes by all means a Guest for your No1, but in addition you may use a guest for another injured rider only, but his current average has to be 2 points less than the rider he replaces, this ruling of only using a 3 point unattached 3 point rider is far,far to harsh, especially at the business end of the season, when a 3 pointer covers a 7/8/9 pointer.

Edited October 29, 2012 by greyhoundp

[bradtony]

I do wonder if the powers that be of the National league should approach Sky with a view to getting money from them in what ever form to help the National league after all they are the future of Sky broadcast .Point being no young riders comming through no Elite league worth watching .

[speedy bill]

like i said in a earlyer post get rid of heat 15 it will save money for the promoter, just swap heat 13 and 14 around your thinking like me greyhoundp

[martin_t]

like i said in a earlyer post get rid of heat 15 it will save money for the promoter, just swap heat 13 and 14 around your thinking like me greyhoundp

 

So we get one less race,do admission prices get reduced ?

[Damon]

like i said in a earlyer post get rid of heat 15 it will save money for the promoter, just swap heat 13 and 14 around your thinking like me greyhoundp

My understanding is that one race costs, basically the wages for those riders, would hardly make or break a promoter, I would say get an extra few people through the door would cover that element. Costs such as medical cover, rent to a stadium owner, insurance, health and safety issues that have to be addressed, then the overall wage bill will obviously have an affect, but by ditching one race, I doubt, would save a troubled club.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Personally if there's going to be a format change I'd favour the 'traditional' 13 heats format. But really that HAS to be on the basis there's also a (minimum) six heat second half. Six heats allows for a AJL/MDL/NJL style match or when not, one of those races for non-team members, juniors or indeed a mini second half competition.

I've missed the story about Cov too... Pray tell..!

[norwichkev]

I would keep Ht 15, often the best race of the night and pivotal to the meeting for the Match points etc.

 

I think the 3.00 rule as it is is spot on for 2 reasons a) as an example according to reports both Mildenhall & Dudley looked at using Adam Ellis in the League decider meetings, that cannot be right It gives unattached British riders a chance to gain experience and put themselves in the shop window.

 

I would like this staying down when falling off disease stamped out. In my view it is cheating - end of, Issue with a yellow card & fine for the first offence. If we stamp this out early enough it may filter up to the higher leagues.

 

In an ideal world I would like referee's to have access to video as standard, but due to cost that is not going to happen - and as a by product gives us frequently something to argue about.

 

Averages I would take a different view from most in an effort to resolve. a) Include all Cup / Trophy / League Matches . Issue first averages 1st June and then every month thereafter regardless of how many fixtures in each Month - fixture lists are I believe set by the controlling body? so there can be influence from the start to even out where possible and prevent any possible manipulations. I understand that this is not perfect but has to be better than the current, can see no harm in trialing for one season.

 

Start of the season how about cap each team on double up riders to 2? should even out Team building. Maybe if as season progresses a Team has 2 non number 1's riding PL then a guest facility for the lower averaged with R/R as the other.

 

Kev

[21st century heathen]

No,that is progress...

 

Just checking!

 

I think the 3.00 rule as it is is spot on for 2 reasons a) as an example according to reports both Mildenhall & Dudley looked at using Adam Ellis in the League decider meetings, that cannot be right It gives unattached British riders a chance to gain experience and put themselves in the shop window.

 

I would like this staying down when falling off disease stamped out. In my view it is cheating - end of, Issue with a yellow card & fine for the first offence. If we stamp this out early enough it may filter up to the higher leagues.

 

1) Tell me why Ellis couldn't be used by the Heathens? We used Fenwick in the PO semi 2nd leg at Stoke. He's the Scunny number 8. So why couldn't Ellis, the IOW number 8, ride in the PO final 2nd leg at KL?

 

2) That won't happen. I agree it's annoying when there's a rider on one knee, holding the bike upright and looking the race positions. But I don't think you'll find a ref in the land that would state categorically (which he/she would have to if issuing a card/fine) whether a rider was winded, disorientated or hurt by a fall in the vast majority of cases. The only thing he/she can really do is call the heat result without a re-run if reasonable.

[norwichkev]

Just checking!

 

 

 

1) Tell me why Ellis couldn't be used by the Heathens? We used Fenwick in the PO semi 2nd leg at Stoke. He's the Scunny number 8. So why couldn't Ellis, the IOW number 8, ride in the PO final 2nd leg at KL?

 

2) That won't happen. I agree it's annoying when there's a rider on one knee, holding the bike upright and looking the race positions. But I don't think you'll find a ref in the land that would state categorically (which he/she would have to if issuing a card/fine) whether a rider was winded, disorientated or hurt by a fall in the vast majority of cases. The only thing he/she can really do is call the heat result without a re-run if reasonable.

 

1) As I said both teams allegedly looked at using him as a number 8 - he had scored 19+1 at KL for IOW explain to me how in anybody's eyes Adam turning up for either side could be a fair move? As rules stand I believe it has to be an unattached rider which in my view is fair and correct. No idea how you used Fenwick.

 

2) In a lot of these cases it is not difficult, yes the Ref has to make a judgement call but that is what he is there for - some they may get wrong but a majority I suspect they will get right. At the moment he can call after 2 laps?, quite rightly cannot be called earlier than that but there is far more of the deliberately getting the race stopped now and in my view it needs to be stamped out.

 

Kev

[TMW]

1) As I said both teams allegedly looked at using him as a number 8 - he had scored 19+1 at KL for IOW explain to me how in anybody's eyes Adam turning up for either side could be a fair move? As rules stand I believe it has to be an unattached rider which in my view is fair and correct. No idea how you used Fenwick.

 

 

Kev

 

Fenwick has always been Scunthorpes no. 8 with Hart as Scunthorpes declared No.1 and therefore eligible to guest as he isn't in a declared 1- 7 as is Ellis No.8 for IOW he will be a good signing for the IOW next year on a 3 pt average. No8 = unattached. I'm genuinely pleased for the IOW if Ellis signs for them next year it's about time they had a bit of luck!!!!!!

Edited November 2, 2012 by TMW