Swc Joker

[iris123]

Decisions like this really bring the sport into question.The SWC was one of the highlights of the season,only imo spoilt by the joker.We heard that the authorities were up in arms about the danish tactics and were going to do something about it.....so do they do the sensible thing and scrap it?Of course not a little tweak which won't do a lot and then compromise the whole tournament by seeding the 7th or 8th best team straight into the final,thus ensuring one of the best teams won't be able to make it and ensuring one team(CZ) will be way out of contention in the final and ensuring one of the top events of the year is raced on one of the worst tracks in Europe.......and these guys are "experts"

Edited October 29, 2012 by iris123

[The Know]

CERTAIN people at the FIM much more likely to stick their oar in these days... incidentally, you are posting everywhere. Having a quiet day or just bored?

 

ya bit bored today at work ya could be right but i would say more a silly rule made up at bsi, as a few of them not really got a clue Phil.

[PHILIPRISING]

ya bit bored today at work ya could be right but i would say more a silly rule made up at bsi, as a few of them not really got a clue Phil.

 

YOU keep saying that but have to disagree. Great bunch there now doing a fantastic job, 99 per cent of which is never seen by the general public.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Great bunch there now doing a fantastic job, 99 per cent of which is never seen by the general public.

 

Well you're right with respect to the last part of the sentence...

[The Know]

YOU keep saying that but have to disagree. Great bunch there now doing a fantastic job, 99 per cent of which is never seen by the general public.

 

Who is that then Phil ? Last gp we sponsored were treated terribly and our guests were disgusted with the service. Very embarressing for us. I stick by worse they ever had apart from two.

[PHILIPRISING]

Well you're right with respect to the last part of the sentence...

 

I HAVE always thought of you as an intelligent man Humphrey, although I disagree you with a lot of the time, but I am sure you would appreciate the time and effort that goes into staging events like the British GP at Cardiff and many of the other aspects of the GPs. Ask any of the riders what they feel about the behind-the-scenes organisation ... tickets, passes, facilities at tracks, security, etc. Or all the aspects of ensuring the smooth running of these events, especially when you compare them to everyday league matches, not just in the UK, which are often a shambles by comparison.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Or all the aspects of ensuring the smooth running of these events, especially when you compare them to everyday league matches, not just in the UK, which are often a shambles by comparison.

 

Significant time and effort undoubtedly goes into the organisation of the SGP and SWC, but then you'd expect that from something that's a 10 million quid enterprise.

 

You're also not really comparing like-with-like. BSI are running 13 events per year and have a significant number of paid staff to sort things out, whereas most domestic tracks will be running significantly more than that and largely relying on volunteers.

 

No-one would suggest that the British speedway is run very well at all, but one can be sympathetic to the difficulties and problems that it faces (even if some are self-inflicted). You expect higher standards from an international media corporation, just as I would if I compared a World Cup Finals match to one in the Combined Counties League...

 

From my perspective, IMG/BSI appear to do an okay job, but nothing very outstanding.

[The White Knight]

Significant time and effort undoubtedly goes into the organisation of the SGP and SWC, but then you'd expect that from something that's a 10 million quid enterprise.

 

You're also not really comparing like-with-like. BSI are running 13 events per year and have a significant number of paid staff to sort things out, whereas most domestic tracks will be running significantly more than that and largely relying on volunteers.

 

No-one would suggest that the British speedway is run very well at all, but one can be sympathetic to the difficulties and problems that it faces (even if some are self-inflicted). You expect higher standards from an international media corporation, just as I would if I compared a World Cup Finals match to one in the Combined Counties League...

 

From my perspective, IMG/BSI appear to do an okay job, but nothing very outstanding.

 

I just wish BSI/IMG had never got involved with Speedway. The Sport seems to have gone downhill since the start of their involvement. :sad:

[PHILIPRISING]

I just wish BSI/IMG had never got involved with Speedway. The Sport seems to have gone downhill since the start of their involvement. :sad:

 

YOU cannot seriously believe that! Sadly, you probably do. To blame all the ills of British speedway at their door is frankly ludicrous.

 

Significant time and effort undoubtedly goes into the organisation of the SGP and SWC, but then you'd expect that from something that's a 10 million quid enterprise.

 

You're also not really comparing like-with-like. BSI are running 13 events per year and have a significant number of paid staff to sort things out, whereas most domestic tracks will be running significantly more than that and largely relying on volunteers.

 

No-one would suggest that the British speedway is run very well at all, but one can be sympathetic to the difficulties and problems that it faces (even if some are self-inflicted). You expect higher standards from an international media corporation, just as I would if I compared a World Cup Finals match to one in the Combined Counties League...

 

From my perspective, IMG/BSI appear to do an okay job, but nothing very outstanding.

 

THERE are many things British speedway could copy from the way GP meetings are run and it wouldn't cost a penny. More to do with will-power than man-power.

[The White Knight]

YOU cannot seriously believe that! Sadly, you probably do. To blame all the ills of British speedway at their door is frankly ludicrous.

 

Not ALL of the ills Philip - I never said that. Just MOST of them.

 

I could also include SKY too - their ridiculous ideas of making the Sport more exciting. You know what they are.

 

They have taken a TERRIFIC Sport and mucked it about so that it is almost unrecognisable to the Speedway I once knew. The Sport is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

 

Look at the attendances, it's not ALL the Recession. Sadly Speedway is losing it's appeal - I wonder why? It couldn't be these contrived situations - could it?

 

I certainly believe that it does not help.

[stratton]

Agree with the TWK, Philip is in his own world that in the world of Speedway it is all rosy in the garden.Far from it Speedway is more than just the GP circus.Overall as a sport it is going downhill fast and i would be lying to myself to say otherwise.I would like British speedway to move on now before it is too late the PL is a good product but the EL league needs to stop bowing down to the rest of the world.Also as discussed before the series has certain individuals creaming it out of the sport at a lot of other people's exspence.Is the sport in better shape now than the 60s, 70s,80s a big NO and there is a big danger of having no speedway in Britain in 10 years time.?

Edited October 30, 2012 by sidney

[PHILIPRISING]

WHEN have I ever said everything in the speedway garden is rosy? I simply stated that I don't think the SGP series, which is going from strength to strength and which has just enjoyed a tremendous season, is to blame for the troubles in the UK.

 

Okay, Saturday night GPs have done the UK no favours. But many of the other problems are self-inflicted. Too many silly rules, too much dumbing down to the lowest denominator. Obviously this year the weather has dealt us (and by that I include Speedway Star's sales) a major blow. And, much as it would solve many of the problems, Elite league tracks all racing on the same night is never going to happen.

 

Like it or not it is the top stars who attract the fans who might not otherwise go. That isn't exclusive to speedway of course. But British speedway simply hasn't addressed the problem that has grown out of Poland in particular and also Sweden allied to the fact that there are far fewer British born or based riders than used to be the case.

 

Poland may be rueing the cost now or in the near future but the strength of their league and the wages their clubs pay has provided many riders with enough money, along with Sweden, to boycott the UK. These guys are not anti-British speedway by any means but racing on a Sunday in Poland and a Tuesday in Sweden is very convenient. Those who still commute back to the UK are diminishing all the time. It is costly and and time-consuming, especially when there are alternative and easier pickings to be had in Denmark, Germany, the Czech Republic and so on. This is the real world in which we live.

 

There was a time when most riders spent Monday to Saturday racing in the UK and a lucky few then hot-footed it to the continent for lucrative grasstrack and longtrack bookings that were the icing on the cake. Those days are long, long gone. And the money that the likes of Briggs, Mauger and Olsen could demand in Germany especially pales when compared to what some of the top speedway stars now receive in Poland.

 

The SGP has nothing to do with the fact that many riders are simply financially better off not coming here. But the powers-that-be here haven't come to grips with reduced rider availability and cut their cloth accordingly. Lowering the points limit does not ensure lower rider costs. That has been proven. British speedway requires a radical shake-up, thinking outside of the box, innovative ways of attracting people back to the sport, providing better entertainment and value for money. Of course some of the traditionalists might be annoyed but they are getting fewer and fewer anyway.

 

One thing that always trikes me when I watch domestic speedway in either Poland or Sweden is how much younger the audience is, how speedway seems to appeal to a younger generation there than it does here. But then those countries don't have such an ethnic population as we do and it is a fact that many in Britain have no interest in motorsport, and particularly motorcycle racing, and bow only at the great god soccer.

 

Constantly changing teams from year to year alienates many fans who see their favourite rider shipped off elsewhere, a points limit as such patently doesn't work otherwise teams wouldn't finish so far apart at the end of the season. Fine in theory but not in practice.

 

Speedway is on a slippery slope in Britain and it has to find ways of providing what the people want at a price they can afford. Not an easy puzzle to solve, I agree, but we must try.

 

And before you ask, no I have no idea what this has to do with the SWC Joker either...

[stratton]

Philip how can you say the EL has not suffered because of the GPseries.?Course it has now we are not getting the benefits from it why not break away from it.Are you interested in Speedway as a WHOLE or just as a little bubble and a lucky few i have enjoyed some of the series but there also has been some average stuff too.Also some of the crowds don't look great either British speedway dosent,t always help itself but do BSI compensate? British speedway for the disruption it causes the British calendar. Also you cannot be impartial and see the big picture can you?

Edited October 30, 2012 by sidney

[PHILIPRISING]

AND how do you suggest we (presumably you mean the BSPA?) break away from it? And how would that benefit British speedway?

 

Of course I am interested in speedway as a whole. It is my business and, believe me, it isn't getting any easier.

[stratton]

AND how do you suggest we (presumably you mean the BSPA?) break away from it? And how would that benefit British speedway?

 

Of course I am interested in speedway as a whole. It is my business and, believe me, it isn't getting any easier.

What i mean is forget about the stars, cut the cloth accordingly and that would cut costs and have riders who want to ride in Britain.Also you have to remember in the series there are only a few making mega money(they deserve it ) but it's only a little bubble doing well.You are right about Britain the age factor of fans and i think they're is a hard road ahead to get new ones.For me waiting for a GP once a fortnight isn't my cup of tea give me a good old team match anytime.Also Phillip do you agree ?some of the crowds don't look great at the GPS and how many of those all pay to get in.? Edited October 30, 2012 by sidney

[Humphrey Appleby]

I simply stated that I don't think the SGP series, which is going from strength to strength and which has just enjoyed a tremendous season, is to blame for the troubles in the UK.

 

I think it's a questionable statement that the SGP is going from strength-to-strength, especially in light of the possible loss of a major television contract. I'd have also said that a competition taking 6, then 10, then 11, and now 12 prime race days (and that's not counting practice days and the SWC) was certainly not helpful to British speedway, although things are now at such a low ebb that it's really neither here-nor-there these days.

 

One thing that always trikes me when I watch domestic speedway in either Poland or Sweden is how much younger the audience is, how speedway seems to appeal to a younger generation there than it does here. But then those countries don't have such an ethnic population as we do and it is a fact that many in Britain have no interest in motorsport, and particularly motorcycle racing, and bow only at the great god soccer.

 

Maybe true for Poland, but the ethnic population in Sweden is actually much the same as the UK percentage wise, and even if ethnic populations can't be interested in motor sport, there are still over 50 million Anglo-Saxon-Celts in the UK to draw upon. Swedish speedway somehow manages to make the sport a community affair, and of course probably gets more support from local authorities.

 

Constantly changing teams from year to year alienates many fans who see their favourite rider shipped off elsewhere, a points limit as such patently doesn't work otherwise teams wouldn't finish so far apart at the end of the season. Fine in theory but not in practice.

 

Favourite riders being shipped off elsewhere also happened when the sport was popular, so that's not really a complete explanation. It could also be argued that without a points limit, the differences between the top and bottom would be even greater, and more teams would have bankrupted themselves to try to keep in touch.

 

I'd agree that the team equalisation has just become ridiculously punitive over the past 20 years, and provides absolutely no incentive to develop riders or build for the future. Unfortunately though, continually stating 'the bleeding obvious' isn't ultimately isn't going to change anything, and those in influential positions could be proferring some possible solutions. Otherwise there won't be much of a sport in 5-10 years time, and where will the SGP be then?

Edited October 30, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby

[The White Knight]

The SGP has nothing to do with the fact that many riders are simply financially better off not coming here. But the powers-that-be here haven't come to grips with reduced rider availability and cut their cloth accordingly. Lowering the points limit does not ensure lower rider costs. That has been proven. British speedway requires a radical shake-up, thinking outside of the box, innovative ways of attracting people back to the sport, providing better entertainment and value for money. Of course some of the traditionalists might be annoyed but they are getting fewer and fewer anyway.

 

I'm not very keen on that comment. So they don't even have to be considered - b****y GREAT!!

 

Remember it is those 'Traditionalists' who have supported Speedway for forty, fifty or sixty years that have kept the Sport going. One of the reasons THEY are deserting Speedway is because they are dying off - we don't need to be reminded. Among other reasons are stupid Rules brought in to please Television Companies and BSI/IMG.

 

You cannot get away from that...............................

[PHILIPRISING]

SWEDEN'S population may be ethnic but its demographic is not like that of the UK. It is just a fact that large swales of the UK population have no interest in speedway or motorsport in general and are never likely to. But, of course, we just don't have the cub culture that they do in Sweden and Poland and I do believe that is a major factor and something that we have never really overcome. Clubs in Poland and Sweden are much more part of their local communities like the soccer teams here.

 

Favourite riders being shipped off years ago (rider control) was nothing like what we have now. The old Belle Vue team for example was virtually unchanged for many a year. Would both Peter Collins and Chris Morton have survived there now along with the likes of Chris Pusey and the great Alan Wilkinson?

 

Do you believe that if the GPs went away British speedway would instantly and miraculously be rejuvenated? Or that the riders now giving it a miss would come flooding back. It is time to stop moaning about the SGP and try to regenerate British speedway as best we can.

 

Scunthorpe and Somerset showed over the weekend that it can still be great entertainment when performed on decent tracks and with evenly matched teams. The ingredients are there, the chefs just need to work it out.

 

Still don't know what this has to do with a Joker...

 

TWK ... don't take it so personally. Speedway has to find a new and younger audience. Cricket was going the same way but came up with new formats that appealed to the public at large. There are many who don't like 20/20 but if cricket relied on the traditional county game for its income it would be dead and buried.

[The White Knight]

SWEDEN'S population may be ethnic but its demographic is not like that of the UK. It is just a fact that large swales of the UK population have no interest in speedway or motorsport in general and are never likely to. But, of course, we just don't have the cub culture that they do in Sweden and Poland and I do believe that is a major factor and something that we have never really overcome. Clubs in Poland and Sweden are much more part of their local communities like the soccer teams here.

 

Favourite riders being shipped off years ago (rider control) was nothing like what we have now. The old Belle Vue team for example was virtually unchanged for many a year. Would both Peter Collins and Chris Morton have survived there now along with the likes of Chris Pusey and the great Alan Wilkinson?

 

Do you believe that if the GPs went away British speedway would instantly and miraculously be rejuvenated? Or that the riders now giving it a miss would come flooding back. It is time to stop moaning about the SGP and try to regenerate British speedway as best we can.

 

Scunthorpe and Somerset showed over the weekend that it can still be great entertainment when performed on decent tracks and with evenly matched teams. The ingredients are there, the chefs just need to work it out.

 

Still don't know what this has to do with a Joker...

 

Absolutely nothing. (Things do go off Topic from time to time).

 

However - people seem keen to discuss this subject - and, actually the discussion has a LOT more relevence to Speedway than the damned 'JOKER'!!!

[stratton]

I don't think we are all knockers of the gps i am not, but i don't see it as this big great saviour for speedway.I still don't think it compares to the one off night never will.The PL i like a lot it is more varied and i think the EL might have to copy it too survive or maybe even have one big league.Am i wrong? does some of the crowds at some of the gps look average.