Berwick Survival.

[fairplay1]

My point is that, no matter how promptly it is reported, that uncertainty is there. I'm sure many people will go for the entertainment option that they know for certain is going to be on, rather than something that is at the mercy of the weather.

We have to get as close as possible to guaranteeing meetings go ahead.

Otherwise, people can't say "x" night is speedway night, and mark it off in the diary.

 

I'm sure this inconsistency due to the weather is a big problem.

 

 

Sorry, but I can't tow the speedway party line on this one.

Everyone I know - apart from yourself, it would appear - thinks it is ridiculous.

 

There are better options than this to keep meetings close.

 

 

The tactical option was ok when the rider on a tac ride came from 15 mtrs then they worked for the extra points, the present system gives them points for nothing and the joker in the world cup was exactly what it said on the tin a complete joke.. i honestly think it makes a complete mockery of the sport.

[Fromafar]

The tactical option was ok when the rider on a tac ride came from 15 mtrs then they worked for the extra points, the present system gives them points for nothing and the joker in the world cup was exactly what it said on the tin a complete joke.. i honestly think it makes a complete mockery of the sport.

The trouble is not many riders can come from 15mtrs nowadays due to technology and slick tracks.I am not in favour of the double points either but we only pay to watch the sport not run it why should our opinions matter.

[Catch Me If You Can]

It will be interesting to hear the Berwick Promotion views on the outcome of the meeting, positive or negative.

Correct me if wrong but have Berwick actually come out and said they are definitely running? I see from BSPA Press Release that they declared to run among others at AGM but also read it would depend on sponsorship, funding etc being in place?

[Fromafar]

Correct me if wrong but have Berwick actually come out and said they are definitely running? I see from BSPA Press Release that they declared to run among others at AGM but also read it would depend on sponsorship, funding etc being in place?

Subject to finding a major sponser is what I read.We will need to wait for a club statement regarding that matter.

[screm]

I might have to disagree with you on this one.

At the very least the tactical rule had to be dropped. It's the one thing that was noticed by the friends that I took along this year. It seriously undermines the sport.

 

If this season has been as bad as publicised - and I've no reason to doubt that - then there are big changes required to the sport in general.

 

Time will be the test though...

 

Agree with you on the double tactical ride,it makes a mockery of the sport,and favours top heavy teams.Id do away with tactical rides and tactical substitutes,staying only with reserve replacements.I also go back to bringing in the bonus point,no change in the current scoring system,but just with the bonus point added.

 

Speedway needs rebranded,and modernized,its an extreme sport so market as such.

 

Subject to finding a major sponser is what I read.We will need to wait for a club statement regarding that matter.

 

Now that the annual conference is out of the way,you`d think the BSPA would want to know fairly swiftly what Berwicks plans are.Im guessing the promotion have given some sort of positive noises at the AGM,and Im hoping we will hear something positive very soon.Im still confident we will run.

[David Johnston1]

Agree with you on the double tactical ride,it makes a mockery of the sport,and favours top heavy teams.Id do away with tactical rides and tactical substitutes,staying only with reserve replacements.I also go back to bringing in the bonus point,no change in the current scoring system,but just with the bonus point added.

 

Speedway needs rebranded,and modernized,its an extreme sport so market as such.

 

 

 

Now that the annual conference is out of the way,you`d think the BSPA would want to know fairly swiftly what Berwicks plans are.Im guessing the promotion have given some sort of positive noises at the AGM,and Im hoping we will hear something positive very soon.Im still confident we will run.

If you took the tactical rule out the Premier League grand final you would have different league champions.

That team wouldn't have got the point at Newcastle in the group stage to get to the final so the tactical rule played a major part in the play-offs.

 

Doesn't matter now as long as Berwick run next season.

[screm]

If you took the tactical rule out the Premier League grand final you would have different league champions.

That team wouldn't have got the point at Newcastle in the group stage to get to the final so the tactical rule played a major part in the play-offs.

 

Doesn't matter now as long as Berwick run next season.

 

So we mightve found a true Champion team,jobs a goodun.

 

Tactical rides seems unfair to me,but Id guess Im in the minority,I also think they are here to stay.

[Fromafar]

So we mightve found a true Champion team,jobs a goodun.

 

Tactical rides seems unfair to me,but Id guess Im in the minority,I also think they are here to stay.

So we mightve found a true Champion team,jobs a goodun.

 

Tactical rides seems unfair to me,but Id guess Im in the minority,I also think they are here to stay.

Not so sure you are in the minority regarding Tactical rides .

PS can anyone tell me why the Post I am Quoting always appears twice in the heading

Edited November 19, 2012 by Fromafar

[screm]

Not so sure you are in the minority regarding Tactical rides .

PS can anyone tell me why the Post I am Quoting always appears twice in the heading

 

Just everthing else then.

 

I get the point of the tactical ride,and seen it work both for and against Berwick,but still dont like it and its a rule Id have thought had run its course by now.Yes that particular race can be exciting especially if the tactical riders is beaten,bit IMO it distorts the final score to much.

[Halifaxtiger]

It isn't a party line. I do like it, to me it isn't any worse than something like the away goals rule in Europe, that can see sides unfairly punished.

 

The tac rule has created some great moments, gets emotions going creates talking points.

 

Everyone has the "was great" and "aw ya bas moment" from it.

 

Berwick, KOC, Villar v Grieves (double points) the doubt, gutted emotion of the inevitable double points was blown out the water by the joy of Carlos turning him over.

 

Peterborough v Reading, arguably the best meeting of the last 10 years.

 

Speedway World Cup is phenomenal when the jokers come into play, it lifts the emotion in races.

 

 

 

I was with you all the way...........until that last point. The use of the Joker in SWC last season did more damage to the argument supporting tactical changes than anything else I have ever seen or heard.

 

However...........

 

The tactical change rule has been in force in speedway for 50 years. Some meetings are dead after 5 heats without it, and it gives the opportunity for those matches to stay alive.

 

Every time someone comes in as tactical change, there is more emphasis on the race - a bit like having a last heat decider in the middle of the meeting.

 

Both of the above create more excitement, and there's no-one who would deny that. Isn't that what speedway is all about ?

 

The TR rule effects heats by 3 points. The TS rule can effect a heat by up to 8, and it costs a lot, lot more. TR all the way for me.

 

People point to other sports and suggest that no other has something similar. Perhaps we should introduce an offside rule into speedway instead. The simple fact is speedway is entirely different, so its rules not only can be but need to be different too.

 

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable. I find those who knock it either can't make a cogent argument against it, don't like speedway and use it to bash the sport, or attempt to pander to the bashers (which is a waste of time).

 

It might suit top heavy teams, but when's the last time one won the league ? That's all about balance, and the most top heavy team in the PL in 2012 finished bottom.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[neil3065]

Really hope Berwick survive, its a cracking track and a decent stadium.

 

They've had plenty of decent riders up there in recent seasons, but sadly very few trophies to show for it. Trouble is, when you've had decent riders and won a trophy and the crowds still arent at a decent level, then it makes it harder to keep signing those riders.

 

Is the National League a potential 'better than nothing' option for the Bandits in 2013?!

Edited November 19, 2012 by neil3065

[screm]

Really hope Berwick survive, its a cracking track and a decent stadium.

 

They've had plenty of decent riders up there in recent seasons, but sadly very few trophies to show for it. Trouble is, when you've had decent riders and won a trophy and the crowds still arent at a decent level, then it makes it hard to keep signing those riders.

 

Is the National League a potential 'better than nothing' option for the Bandits in 2013?!

 

As far as I know its PL or nothing,as their statement of intending to run in the PL at the recent AGM indicates,as Ive posted Im sure we will run next year.

[Fromafar]

I was with you all the way...........until that last point. The use of the Joker in SWC last season did more damage to the argument supporting tactical changes than anything else I have ever seen or heard.

 

However...........

 

The tactical change rule has been in force in speedway for 50 years. Some meetings are dead after 5 heats without it, and it gives the opportunity for those matches to stay alive.

 

Every time someone comes in as tactical change, there is more emphasis on the race - a bit like having a last heat decider in the middle of the meeting.

 

Both of the above create more excitement, and there's no-one who would deny that. Isn't that what speedway is all about ?

 

The TR rule effects heats by 3 points. The TS rule can effect a heat by up to 8, and it costs a lot, lot more. TR all the way for me.

 

People point to other sports and suggest that no other has something similar. Perhaps we should introduce an offside rule into speedway instead. The simple fact is speedway is entirely different, so its rules not only can be but need to be different too.

 

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable. I find those who knock it either can't make a cogent argument against it, don't like speedway and use it to bash the sport, or attempt to pander to the bashers (which is a waste of time).

 

It might suit top heavy teams, but when's the last time one won the league ? That's all about balance, and the most top heavy team in the PL in 2012 finished bottom.

I was with you all the way...........until that last point. The use of the Joker in SWC last season did more damage to the argument supporting tactical changes than anything else I have ever seen or heard.

 

However...........

 

The tactical change rule has been in force in speedway for 50 years. Some meetings are dead after 5 heats without it, and it gives the opportunity for those matches to stay alive.

 

Every time someone comes in as tactical change, there is more emphasis on the race - a bit like having a last heat decider in the middle of the meeting.

 

Both of the above create more excitement, and there's no-one who would deny that. Isn't that what speedway is all about ?

 

The TR rule effects heats by 3 points. The TS rule can effect a heat by up to 8, and it costs a lot, lot more. TR all the way for me.

 

People point to other sports and suggest that no other has something similar. Perhaps we should introduce an offside rule into speedway instead. The simple fact is speedway is entirely different, so its rules not only can be but need to be different too.

 

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable. I find those who knock it either can't make a cogent argument against it, don't like speedway and use it to bash the sport, or attempt to pander to the bashers (which is a waste of time).

 

It might suit top heavy teams, but when's the last time one won the league ? That's all about balance, and the most top heavy team in the PL in 2012 finished bottom.

Your point regarding is Wtc is valid but lets face it it has been done a numerous times in league matches just not as blatent and does bring tactics into other races regarding the match score at the time IMO .Still thats the rules as they stand.

[bigeddiechek]

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable.

That's the best case I've heard for it yet.

 

It still doesn't change the newcomers' views that it is a joke (the ones that came with me, anyway).

 

However, as WJM pointed out, there is the away goal counting double in football.

I'll use these two points to explain it in the future, regardless of whether or not I like it.

 

Good debate and discussion!

[Halifaxtiger]

Your point regarding is Wtc is valid but lets face it it has been done a numerous times in league matches just not as blatent and does bring tactics into other races regarding the match score at the time IMO .Still thats the rules as they stand.

 

What happened at the WTC was so blatant it was ridiculous. While any form of tactical change is potentially open to abuse, I have been to over 140 matches in the last two seasons and I don't think it happened once.

 

The decision to restrict it heats 1-12 was a master stroke, destroying the possibility of ridiculous races at the end of meetings when they were mostly likely to occur.

 

That's the best case I've heard for it yet.

 

It still doesn't change the newcomers' views that it is a joke (the ones that came with me, anyway).

 

However, as WJM pointed out, there is the away goal counting double in football.

I'll use these two points to explain it in the future, regardless of whether or not I like it.

 

Good debate and discussion!

 

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

I could make a fair argument that the offside rule in football is a joke. The only difference is the majority of the public are more used to it.

 

On a final note, the tactical change rule is pretty much irrelevant when taking in to account how brilliant watching 4 blokes on bikes without brakes can truly be. I will never understand anyone that stops going (or doesn't come) for the sake of a rule.

 

Really hope Berwick survive, its a cracking track and a decent stadium.

 

They've had plenty of decent riders up there in recent seasons, but sadly very few trophies to show for it. Trouble is, when you've had decent riders and won a trophy and the crowds still arent at a decent level, then it makes it harder to keep signing those riders.

 

Is the National League a potential 'better than nothing' option for the Bandits in 2013?!

 

Its the step up they have made since John Anderson took over that is quite remarkable. Its the same place, yet it is completely different.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[bigeddiechek]

What a great post Halifaxtiger

[Fromafar]

What happened at the WTC was so blatant it was ridiculous. While any form of tactical change is potentially open to abuse, I have been to over 140 matches in the last two seasons and I don't think it happened once.

 

The decision to restrict it heats 1-12 was a master stroke, destroying the possibility of ridiculous races at the end of meetings when they were mostly likely to occur.

 

 

 

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

I could make a fair argument that the offside rule in football is a joke. The only difference is the majority of the public are more used to it.

 

On a final note, the tactical change rule is pretty much irrelevant when taking in to account how brilliant watching 4 blokes on bikes without brakes can truly be. I will never understand anyone that stops going (or doesn't come) for the sake of a rule.

 

 

 

Its the step up they have made since John Anderson took over that is quite remarkable. Its the same place, yet it is completely different.

What happened at the WTC was so blatant it was ridiculous. While any form of tactical change is potentially open to abuse, I have been to over 140 matches in the last two seasons and I don't think it happened once.

 

The decision to restrict it heats 1-12 was a master stroke, destroying the possibility of ridiculous races at the end of meetings when they were mostly likely to occur.

 

 

 

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

I could make a fair argument that the offside rule in football is a joke. The only difference is the majority of the public are more used to it.

 

On a final note, the tactical change rule is pretty much irrelevant when taking in to account how brilliant watching 4 blokes on bikes without brakes can truly be. I will never understand anyone that stops going (or doesn't come) for the sake of a rule.

 

 

 

Its the step up they have made since John Anderson took over that is quite remarkable. Its the same place, yet it is completely different.

Seen quite a few races where a specific heat result was what was required to prevent other Team using the tactical ride ,like I say not as blatant.But like I said thats the rule so good team managing in my view although I dont like the rule.

[The White Knight]

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

 

 

i) Not only newcomers to the Sport.

 

ii) Oh yes it does HT - I know we will never agree on this but believe me - it does.

[Halifaxtiger]

i) Not only newcomers to the Sport.

 

ii) Oh yes it does HT - I know we will never agree on this but believe me - it does.

 

I have made my case for tactical rides above.

 

With the greatest of respect to you (and others) I'll only start questioning that view when I hear a counter argument that is more substantial than 'unfair' or 'destroys credibility'.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[The White Knight]

I have made my case for tactical rides above.

 

With the greatest of respect to you (and others) I'll only start questioning that view when I hear a counter argument that is more substantial than 'unfair' or 'destroys credibility'.

 

Fair enough HT - but - they are both, provably, very good arguments. Those arguments should not be dismissed out of hand.