Mildenhall V Dudley - Weds 24th October - Please Read - NOW AT KINGS LYNN

[MrMungo]

There was definitely no punch. Only thing that happened was that Jolly & Henry went after Morris after what he said to Nielsen.

[Arson fire]

People should really ensure their twitter accounts don't contradict their posts on here

[chopper]

It's bizarre how you can see the ht 15 and come up with a complete reverse of numerous other people see, so I'm assuming its all only people's opinions of what they see so somewhere between the eye and the brain things get clouded, I would have assumed the video evidence should have ended this debate obviously not to be

 

I guess that shows how hard a call it would have been to make.

What i look for is could Roynon have done anything to avoid the collision, i think no, he kept his line and didnt try to stop the outside rider.

Nielsen could have kept the outside line but instead tried to cross to the inside to go between the two riders, so that means he was at fault.

 

Thats my view anyway, and im unbiased either way.

Cheers Chopper

[phillipsr]

Does it really matter? A young rider has ended up in hospital with a broken leg and broken shoulder? Who gives a monkeys toss about whos fault it was. We can all agree it wasnt delibriate so who cares

[Trees]

OMG I liked the comment above about a rider being injured and it doesn't matter who was at fault but have watched the footage again and again, very sus move from Adam!!

[kelvinht]

Just had another look at this, couldn't make my mind up last night when I watched the footage, but for me Neilsen was at fault. Coming out of 4th bend Adam was on the line and in front. Nielsen was on the outside and behind, but had more speed so came across Adam and tried to clamp him on the line coming out of the corner (which is why Adam looked across). Adam had nowhere to go. Still a racing incident though with no malice inteneded either way.

Get well soon Adam

[Fourentee]

Did the ref announce blue was excluded or put the light on at anytime??

The two sides:

Gary Patchett: “The referee had the best view in the house, called down to the clerk of the course's office and said blue (Nielsen) was out, although we saw no lights come on.

“Chris Louis then entered the referee's box -- which he is not allowed to do, it's a sacrosanct area – and the referee changes his decision and excludes our rider in white, Adam Roynon.

“It doesn't look very clever. The referee has changed his mind after he's been approached by a promoter from the opposition. And it's just not allowed."

Dudley statement mentions BBC WM coverage:

"You can hear the moment when Louis clearly influences the referee's decision in a face-to-face conversation by going to 2:50:00 and listening for approximately two minutes on the following programme:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00zhkjc

 

Chris Louis: “I went through the referee's box because I had to get to the video and have a look at it.

“At that point he hadn't made a decision. I came back down and there must have been another five or 10 minutes before a decision was made.

“He (Dave Robinson) put his head through the door and said: 'I haven't made a decision and I will when I'm sure.'

“There was discussion; it was pretty brief.

“When Rob Henry got on the phone to ask if a decision had been made, he (Robinson) said he thought it was Stefan's fault, he was looking at the video and he was going to make his mind up when he was sure.

“He wanted to make his decision when the track had been cleared. Both lads were still on the track. It was a very heavy impact.”

[adz_mft]

The two sides:

Gary Patchett: “The referee had the best view in the house, called down to the clerk of the course's office and said blue (Nielsen) was out, although we saw no lights come on.

“Chris Louis then entered the referee's box -- which he is not allowed to do, it's a sacrosanct area – and the referee changes his decision and excludes our rider in white, Adam Roynon.

“It doesn't look very clever. The referee has changed his mind after he's been approached by a promoter from the opposition. And it's just not allowed."

Dudley statement mentions BBC WM coverage:

"You can hear the moment when Louis clearly influences the referee's decision in a face-to-face conversation by going to 2:50:00 and listening for approximately two minutes on the following programme:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p00zhkjc

 

Chris Louis: “I went through the referee's box because I had to get to the video and have a look at it.

“At that point he hadn't made a decision. I came back down and there must have been another five or 10 minutes before a decision was made.

“He (Dave Robinson) put his head through the door and said: 'I haven't made a decision and I will when I'm sure.'

“There was discussion; it was pretty brief.

“When Rob Henry got on the phone to ask if a decision had been made, he (Robinson) said he thought it was Stefan's fault, he was looking at the video and he was going to make his mind up when he was sure.

“He wanted to make his decision when the track had been cleared. Both lads were still on the track. It was a very heavy impact.”

 

Louis was wrong to go up there..But..To say you can clearly hear him is pretty funny if i'm being honest.

 

Having looked at the clips of the crash numerous times.The ref got the call right.If it had been the other way around and Stef was on the inside,i would fully expect him to be excluded.The rider in front can pick his racing line yes,but when both riders are level he can't.

Total racing accident that has left the very unlucky Roynon injured.

Edited October 26, 2012 by adz_mft

[BWitcher]

Jeez Mont, i know you aint keen on the Heathens, or me for that matter, but dont let it blind you, going into the 3rd Bend Nielsen was last, unless Royno has eyes up his ass, theres NO way Royno could realise Nielsen was that close, yes he expected someone coming round but, i think he was genuinly surprised to see Nielsen where he was, out wide Yes, but alongside NO.

 

Oh by the way, i havent said either way, but to my eyes a racing incident.

 

This is the pertinent point here.

 

Again I repeat what people are completely ignoring in all this, Nielsen makes a DRAMATIC change in line, he is next to the fence halfway round the corner, 1/4 of the bend later he is on the inside. People are claiming that Roynon tried to shut the door on Nielsen, the reality is quite the opposite, Nielsen changes line by the COMPLETE WIDTH OF THE BEND to try to close the door on Roynon. To do so that involves straightening up big time which means he is cutting across Roynon and cutting across the natural line of the bend. Had a rider on the inside moved out from the inside to the very outside of the bend in such dramatic fashion and collided with someone there would be an uproar.

 

The reason the crash happened is Roynon looked and was no doubt highly surprised to see Nielsen coming across him at such an angle. The frontal tv shot doesn't show you enough footage to show Nielsen coming from out by the fence to swing across Roynon. There was absolutely no way Roynon could avoid what happened there. He hadn't changed his line, you don't hug the kerb coming onto the straight when you have rode the inside, especially at a fast track like Kings Lynn, you will always drift out of the corner. Roynon simply had nowhere to go and a collission was inevitable.

 

All this constant talk of Roynon 'flicking' his back wheel at Nielsen.. that came about after the contact between them and as I say was inevitable when one rider is going one way, (moving to the right) and the other is going the other (moving to the left).

 

Racing incident.

 

It's bizarre how you can see the ht 15 and come up with a complete reverse of numerous other people see, so I'm assuming its all only people's opinions of what they see so somewhere between the eye and the brain things get clouded, I would have assumed the video evidence should have ended this debate obviously not to be

 

Are you denying facts? You are simply looking at the last 0.1 seconds of the incident, events start a lot earlier than that. Watch the footage from the reverse and pause it halfway round the bend and see where Nielsen is. Then ask yourself just how he managed to end up tight to the inside 1/4 of the bend later.

 

Nielsen did run out of room but that was as a result of Roynon attempting to close the gap far too late. Definitely the correct decision in my book.

 

 

 

 

Now, you normally post very well HT, but please explain how Nielsen can run out of room when he has opted to move 10 yards to his left and Roynon is still right on the inside?

 

In summary, before everyone jumps on this, I'm not saying Nielsen should have been excluded. Simply saying that a crash was inevitable in that situation as two riders were going in different directions. Complete and utter racing incident and its a shame that the rules of the sport dictate that one has to go. Certainly not black and white as some are portraying.

Edited October 26, 2012 by BWitcher

[Super Blue]

For heavens sake !

 

I know I joke on here that everything ( including climate change ) is Dudleys fault but the one time something IS genuinely their fault ( specifically Roynon ) there's this massive debate !

 

It's not about opinions anymore , Roynon took out Nielsen 100% , proven by video , end of !

 

Nothings going to change and Mildenhall are league Champions .

 

Time to draw a line under this one I think .

[BWitcher]

 

It's not about opinions anymore , Roynon took out Nielsen 100% , proven by video , end of !.

 

No it isn't.

 

Agree nothing will change, but then why have a forum if things can't be discussed?

[Arson fire]

 

 

This is the pertinent point here.

 

Again I repeat what people are completely ignoring in all this, Nielsen makes a DRAMATIC change in line, he is next to the fence halfway round the corner, 1/4 of the bend later he is on the inside. People are claiming that Roynon tried to shut the door on Nielsen, the reality is quite the opposite, Nielsen changes line by the COMPLETE WIDTH OF THE BEND to try to close the door on Roynon. To do so that involves straightening up big time which means he is cutting across Roynon and cutting across the natural line of the bend. Had a rider on the inside moved out from the inside to the very outside of the bend in such dramatic fashion and collided with someone there would be an uproar.

 

The reason the crash happened is Roynon looked and was no doubt highly surprised to see Nielsen coming across him at such an angle. The frontal tv shot doesn't show you enough footage to show Nielsen coming from out by the fence to swing across Roynon. There was absolutely no way Roynon could avoid what happened there. He hadn't changed his line, you don't hug the kerb coming onto the straight when you have rode the inside, especially at a fast track like Kings Lynn, you will always drift out of the corner. Roynon simply had nowhere to go and a collission was inevitable.

 

All this constant talk of Roynon 'flicking' his back wheel at Nielsen.. that came about after the contact between them and as I say was inevitable when one rider is going one way, (moving to the right) and the other is going the other (moving to the left).

 

Racing incident.

 

 

 

Are you denying facts? You are simply looking at the last 0.1 seconds of the incident, events start a lot earlier than that. Watch the footage from the reverse and pause it halfway round the bend and see where Nielsen is. Then ask yourself just how he managed to end up tight to the inside 1/4 of the bend later.

 

 

 

Now, you normally post very well HT, but please explain how Nielsen can run out of room when he has opted to move 10 yards to his left and Roynon is still right on the inside?

 

In summary, before everyone jumps on this, I'm not saying Nielsen should have been excluded. Simply saying that a crash was inevitable in that situation as two riders were going in different directions. Complete and utter racing incident and its a shame that the rules of the sport dictate that one has to go. Certainly not black and white as some are portraying.

looks to me also that Roynon slowed going into turn 3 to team ride inside..thus allowing Nielsen to catch up so quickly...

[TMW]

OMG I liked the comment above about a rider being injured and it doesn't matter who was at fault but have watched the footage again and again, very sus move from Adam!!

 

Sus? Out of order I would say, from the vantage point of the video which of course the Ref wouldn't have had the benefit of until the replay. I am no fan of Stefan Nielson mainly because of his hystrionics on track when he falls off. He is a good rider and probably is the next Nicki Pederson, who I am a fan of, in character but Roynon new exactly what he was doing I suppose he just hoped to kill Stefans momentum as at some point Nielson was going to get passed Morris who seem to be struggling for speed as Roynon was clearly trying to stay with him. It was a ht where all was to play for all or nothing so I think the outcome was fair in the end. Thats not to say that if Perry had been fit we would probably congratulating Dudley now

 

Oh and Team Managers shouldn't go near the Ref till a decision is made and then appeal!!!!!!

 

A Neutral

Edited October 26, 2012 by TMW

[BWitcher]

looks to me also that Roynon slowed going into turn 3 to team ride inside..thus allowing Nielsen to catch up so quickly...

 

Correct, not an excludable offence though is it?

 

The point I am trying to make is, there is absolutely nothing Roynon could have done to avoid that crash. His natural line is to drift out of the corner, Stefans natural line having cutback was to be going much straighter. Having made that cutback Stefan couldn't go anywhere else as there was a rider to his outside. Roynon couldn't go anywhere else he was just riding his natural line on the inside. The only way Roynon could perhaps have even tried to avoid it was to try to turn very sharply, at that point of the bend it would have caused him to lock up/lose control, both of which cause the back wheel to go out further (especially given track conditions).

 

Simply a racing incident. The rules of the sport dictate one rider has to be excluded, this time it was Adam. It could just as easily have gone the other way and Stefan would have a right to feel aggrieved.

 

Is there an argument for a rule change to allow the referees the option of ordering a re-run and not exluding a rider if they deem neither was at fault? Or would that perhaps just give them an easy way out and cause even more problems?

[Arson fire]

We see it all the time, but slowing down can be very dangerous if those behind you arnt....

[TMW]

Correct, not an excludable offence though is it?

 

The point I am trying to make is, there is absolutely nothing Roynon could have done to avoid that crash.

 

I originally thought on the first view that Roynon had hit a rut but no he looks back sees Nielson and clouts him. Thats the simple truth but only Adam knows what happened I would say.

[BWitcher]

We see it all the time, but slowing down can be very dangerous if those behind you arnt....

 

Not really valid when the rider behind you is 5 metres to your right on the outside of the bend.

 

I originally thought on the first view that Roynon had hit a rut but no he looks back sees Nielson and clouts him. Thats the simple truth but only Adam knows what happened I would say.

 

Too much emphasis is being placed on the 'looking back'.

 

Of course he is going to look to see where Nielsen is. What I am sure he didn't expect is for Nielsen to have appeared so close, cutting across his line. Its simple when one rider is going straight, the other is going to the right, there is going to be a collision.

 

In real time, Roynon would barely have even had chance to process what he saw on his 'look' before the collision happened.

Edited October 26, 2012 by BWitcher

[SimonB]

From the you tube clip it looks as if Roynon almost threw his back wheel at Neilsen, hit a rut maybe as I cant believe it was meant intentionally. To me it looked clearly Roynons fault (albeit an racing accident rather than deliberate).

[21st century heathen]

The incident is just a racing incident with no malice intended by any rider out there. I just want to make my feelings on that perfectly clear, but I can't see how Roynon can be considered at fault. Allow me to play amateur accident scene investigator.

 

Roynon rides the inside for the entire race up the point of contact. I don't think anyone would dispute that. In the image below the two riders can be seen (sorry for poor quality - phone snap off lap top) at the apex of turn 3/4 with Nielsen way out wide and Roynon right around the inside.

 

https://twitter.com/...8/photo/1/large

 

On the next image look where the riders are now. This is barely even coming off the turn. Roynon is still right around the inside. Nielsen is now also around the inside. By Nielsen's own admission (ITV Anglia clip) he "thinks" he can turn back and "squeeze" in between the Heathens lads. Look at the two riders body position. Nielsen has his left leg out, his backside off the seat his shoulder dipped (either his should or elbow in Roynon's ribs) and hanging off the bike. Just to the right hand edge you can see the back end of Morris' machine. Nielsen, by his own admission remember, is trying to turn to the inside of Morris' position to squeeze between the two riders. Roynon has held his line. Nielsen is still trying to change his line to get inside Morris.

 

https://twitter.com/...8/photo/1/large

 

Some have pointed to the back of Roynon's bike 'flicking' out. But why did that happen? As we can all see that Roynon holds the inside line for the whole lap and Nielsen makes a dramatic change to the line he's ridden. What effect has that had? From the image above we can see that Roynon's front end has been forced in toward the centre of the track as a result of being leaned on. The front end of the bike being slowed by contact and the rear wheel driving the bike hard has the effect of making the back end step out toward the outside as the front end is slowed and pushed inward. That's just simple physics but it does explain why people think Roynon 'flicked' the back end out. It's the contact on the front end that makes this happen.

 

Also, on the image you can see just how small the gap between Roynon and Morris was and remember that Nielsen is aiming for this gap which is tight to the inside from a far outside line when he was in the middle of the corner. Roynon can't just stop or disappear. He's already there, and had been throughout the race.

 

The conclusion I draw is as follows: Roynon held his line. Nielsen changed his line dramatically. Nielsen leans on Roynon. Nielsen admits trying to squeeze between the Heathens which is an admission he changed his line and that he knew how tight it was. The contact is sufficient to force Roynon's bike into changing direction. It's just racing with no malice but Roynon absolutely cannot be held accountable for the decisions Nielsen took in trying to come from behind to overtake the riders in front of him.

[montie]

 

 

 

. It's just racing with no malice but Roynon absolutely cannot be held accountable for the decisions Nielsen took in trying to come from behind to overtake the riders in front of him.

 

I thought that was the idea of racing?,what ever way you try and dress this up,the ref got it 100% correct,its a tought one i admit but he is right

 

You watch to much speedway at that pokey little track in Wolverampton,!!!! this is the wide open racing space that is kingslynn where move like this are done,it racing and good racing at that,sad thing is these accidents to happen from time to time