PHILIPRISING Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 STEVE Brandon has absolutely no influence on the referee. Steve was informed of the referee's decision and was simply relaying it to the TV director who in turn passes it on to the various commentators through their headsets. This was AFTER Craig Ackroyd had requested and watched replays of the incident. People should get their facts straight. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTLAND1314 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 howaythen what was said?? behave...and spoil an exclusive for the Speedway Star... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 behave...and spoil an exclusive for the Speedway Star... ;-) SORRY, but won't be in SS either. Wouldn't abuse a position by revealing the content of a conversation that I might not otherwise have heard. But rest assured, it was gamesmanship and, as I say, Nicki chose to put his arm round Chris and start to give him the benefit of his opinion face-to-face. Until that moment Holder had quite deliberately kept his own council. What followed cannot be condoned but let's keep it in perspective. There are plenty who thought it added to the occasion. It was pretty much handbag stuff especially compared to Craig Boyce's assault on Tomasz Gollob at Hackney all those years ago and no worse than the Nicholls/Sayfutdinov confrontation. No one got hurt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTLAND1314 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 SORRY, but won't be in SS either. Wouldn't abuse a position by revealing the content of a conversation that I might not otherwise have heard. But rest assured, it was gamesmanship and, as I say, Nicki chose to put his arm round Chris and start to give him the benefit of his opinion face-to-face. Until that moment Holder had quite deliberately kept his own council. What followed cannot be condoned but let's keep it in perspective. There are plenty who thought it added to the occasion. It was pretty much handbag stuff especially compared to Craig Boyce's assault on Tomasz Gollob at Hackney all those years ago and no worse than the Nicholls/Sayfutdinov confrontation. No one got hurt. Indeed. My comment was largely tongue in cheek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomo1 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Shame Boycie wasn't there - it would have been sorted a lot sooner!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah, the ref bottled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 The referee did not bottle it. He just used common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 stop the argument of Holder hit a rut, it doesnt matter. first bend bunching is all 4 back. The reason Pedersen came off is because of Holder end of discussion. yes he hit a rut and it sent him into Nicki, so if that happened on lap 3 who would have gone? its not hard!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 stop the argument of Holder hit a rut, it doesnt matter. first bend bunching is all 4 back. The reason Pedersen came off is because of Holder end of discussion. yes he hit a rut and it sent him into Nicki, so if that happened on lap 3 who would have gone? its not hard!! Can't say that somebody would have gone even then. Tony Steele, 'The World's Top Referee', saw fit to call all 4 back after an incident well into a heat in a GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedcrazy Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 first bend bunching is all 4 back Lets just get this right, there is NO such rule as first bend bunching" , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy den boy Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 The mere fact that so many people have different views of the initial incident just goes to show that referee Ackroyd was absolutely right to put all four back. Unless it was an open and shut case, which it plainly wasn't, then to exclude either would have been wrong. And would anyone have wanted to see such an exciting and pulsating season end that way? Sorry Phil just cant agree this time-heres why. 1-Ryan Sullivan stated at the start of the show that you can run riders hard going into the first bend if you are in red even if you are behind,Chris knew this as its his home track ,he was slightly behind and tried to run the riders hard into the 1st bend which he has done many times this season,but the big differance this time was Nikki wasnt going to be moved,so CHRIS CHOSE TO GO OVER THE KERB IN ORDER TO MAKE THE MOVE,and thats where 100% chris was wrong as he had far to much speed to a JUMPING THE KERV and that alone spinned him out of control.i like chris but this was a terrible decicion,if it was a ref from any other country Chris would have been excluded.YOU CANT BE INVITED BACK INTO THE RERUN WHEN YOU LEAVE THE TRACK,WHICH ROCKETS YOU OUT OF CONTROL INTO ANOTHER RIDER. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuke Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 First off, well done to Chris Holder on his win. Most GP points over the season = World Champion. As for the 1st bend incident? IMO - Ackroyd bottled it and went for the "safe" option. Roles reversed - NP into Holder? Only one conclusion - NP excluded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Absolutely no doubt Holder should have been excluded and the thugs that started on Nicki should have been marched out of the stadium. Its one thing whn riders have a go at each other in the heat of the moment but completely unacceptable when thuggish pit crew, family and friends start. Shame really because I feel Chris is aq worthy winner of the title but it was tainted by an awful ref desision and thugs on the track. As for those trying to say Nicki was the one who should have been excluded...thats a joke. Yes, he tried to clamp Chris. Thats the sensible thing to do when Chris had been clearly faster all night. If anything Chris came acroos a bit on Nicki out of the gate. Dont think for onre miniute that Chris took Nicki off on purpose but he def should have been out. First of all you have no idea what Nicki was saying...secondly his problem should be with the ref not Holder and thirdly maybe he should just learn to keep his mouth shut occassionally!!! Shame Boycie wasn't there - it would have been sorted a lot sooner!!!! Nicki wouldn't have gone near Holder if Boycey was there!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 First of all what the heck did James Holder and Jack Holder doing down there? He, James started the aggro nor Nicki or Chris Holder. It looked to me as if Jack Holder came out of the pits whilst Nicki was "talking" to Chris and by the look of his face he was perhaps asking Nicki to leave his brother alone type thing, that's when Nicki pushed him which incensed Chris and then others got involved. So you have to say had Nicki simply walked past Chris on his way back to the pits none of the pushing and shoving would of happened but true to his style Nicki had a little go ............... the rest is history, Chris Holder World Champion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Sorry Phil just cant agree this time-heres why. 1-Ryan Sullivan stated at the start of the show that you can run riders hard going into the first bend if you are in red even if you are behind,Chris knew this as its his home track ,he was slightly behind and tried to run the riders hard into the 1st bend which he has done many times this season,but the big differance this time was Nikki wasnt going to be moved,so CHRIS CHOSE TO GO OVER THE KERB IN ORDER TO MAKE THE MOVE,and thats where 100% chris was wrong as he had far to much speed to a JUMPING THE KERV and that alone spinned him out of control.i like chris but this was a terrible decicion,if it was a ref from any other country Chris would have been excluded.YOU CANT BE INVITED BACK INTO THE RERUN WHEN YOU LEAVE THE TRACK,WHICH ROCKETS YOU OUT OF CONTROL INTO ANOTHER RIDER. NO love lost between Ryan and Chris ... but you miss the point. It cannot have been as clear cut as you, and even Ryan suggest, because many people believe that Holder was not at fault and that it was a racing incident. Therefore the verdict was not one of absolute fact. It was a matter of opinion, seen in different ways by different people. There was an element of doubt, enough to persuade the referee to put all four back. It is pure supposition to say that a referee from a different country would have excluded Chris. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up. Craig is a top referee and made his decision on what he saw. Incidentally, it is not a decision based on 'first bend bunching.' It is 'an unsatisfactory start.' Also, a rider has to have both wheels over the curb to be excluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) But I am agreeing with other people's opinions for example Steve O & screamer. As for insulting them I'm doing no different to what those who are on the other side of the fence are doing! As for saying I'm from the BFD school of posting! I post my own opinions thank you very much! I do not follow suit so get over yourself! Hey Benji, welcome to the Being Trolled Club! Like you I post my own opinions and don't mindlessly follow the Troll Pack, and boy, do they hate that! Gracious me... If you think that was "thuggish" behaviour you REALLY can't get out much!!! Obviously never been to Darwin either. Edited October 7, 2012 by BigFatDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Brown Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 It is pure supposition to say that a referee from a different country would have excluded Chris. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up. Craig is a top referee and made his decision on what he saw. Incidentally, it is not a decision based on 'first bend bunching.' It is 'an unsatisfactory start.' Also, a rider has to have both wheels over the curb to be excluded. Glad to read someone saying it was NOT 1st bend bunching, so many have suggested that but for me that was NOT a case of 1st bend bunching Not one to show any sympathy generally for referees but what an impossible position for Craig Ackroyd, if we were really honest in his position how many of us would have taken the option he did. Personally I think he got it wrong but I think we all have to understand why he made that decision You can call it bottling it if you wish but I think it was more a case of just getting it wrong. Rather him than me and the title should be decided with ridersd on the track and not by refereeing decisions Somebody needs to get hold of the morons that were all around Holder on the track though, what on earth were they all doing there ? they did him no favours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 NO love lost between Ryan and Chris ... but you miss the point. It cannot have been as clear cut as you, and even Ryan suggest, because many people believe that Holder was not at fault and that it was a racing incident. Therefore the verdict was not one of absolute fact. It was a matter of opinion, seen in different ways by different people. There was an element of doubt, enough to persuade the referee to put all four back. It is pure supposition to say that a referee from a different country would have excluded Chris. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up. Craig is a top referee and made his decision on what he saw. Incidentally, it is not a decision based on 'first bend bunching.' It is 'an unsatisfactory start.' Also, a rider has to have both wheels over the curb to be excluded. Hmmm some start.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieD Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 Shame Boycie wasn't there - it would have been sorted a lot sooner!!!! Dream on Boycie hit a guy sitting on a speedway bike who was not expecting it, very brave .... Nicki would rip his arm off and hit him over the head with the soggy end 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCB Wildcat Posted October 7, 2012 Report Share Posted October 7, 2012 I must admit my first reaction was Holder should have been excluded but having watched all the replays from all the different angles my opinion has changed. It amazes me how the same incident looks so different from a different camera angle. It is clear from most shots that they are side by as they enter the corner with Nicki slightly in front but there is a replay shot from the rear that shows that Holder was forced onto the grass and his front wheel is a good 2 feet onto the green with his back wheel in the line at which point he had no option but to rejoin the track and with Nicki tight to the line the collision was inevitable. If the incident had been on the second lap I would not have liked to of called it. Sure Holder hit Nicki but aren't you supposed to give your opponent room to race especially if they are along side? Given that the referee has the facility to re run with all 4 for first bend incidents I think it was the only sensible call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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