PHILIPRISING Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 WOULDN'T argue that Holder was lucky but that is not the same as saying Craig Ackroyd was wrong. Lucky in as much as many other referees might have called it differently. But then many would say that he would have been unlucky had he been excluded. What this thread illustrates perfectly is that different people see the same incident differently from others. I fully understand and respect that, although there are many positing who don't accept that some people hold a different view to their own. Ackroyd had absolutely no doubt about his decision. He called it as he saw it. He is an honest man and doesn't deserve to be castigated, especially when there are plenty who would have done the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 WOULDN'T argue that Holder was lucky but that is not the same as saying Craig Ackroyd was wrong. Lucky in as much as many other referees might have called it differently. But then many would say that he would have been unlucky had he been excluded. What this thread illustrates perfectly is that different people see the same incident differently from others. I fully understand and respect that, although there are many positing who don't accept that some people hold a different view to their own. Ackroyd had absolutely no doubt about his decision. He called it as he saw it. He is an honest man and doesn't deserve to be castigated, especially when there are plenty who would have done the same. Agree Phil, all credible and valid points but there many refs i,m willing to bet would see it differently and as long as there is respect for other peoples point of view then all is well. Probably a major failing of posters on here (me included) to consider other peoples thoughts and opinions.....och well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsgirl Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes, over here it is. But as others have said, not so much on the continent where a rider is more often than not excluded for a first bend incident. How often have the non-Brit refs kept all four in for instance. That's one of the reasons the Polish ref is slagged off on here for throwing a rider out in a first bend crash and some of us think it should be all 4 back. Yes, I'm aware the ref is always rig has to make the call and what he says goes but isn't that what a forum is for, to debate things like this? Agree, it's for debate, but there has been no new material for pages now! It's ok to follow for a laugh but that's about it. Did Chris say he was lucky it was all four back because he deserved to go? Or could he have meant that referees often exclude a rider in that type of incident? Yes that's what's been brought up before. Often a rider waits nervously as the call can go either way. Both Nicki and Chris wanted the call to go thier way. Nicki thought he was unlucky that it was all 4 back, Chris thought he was lucky. That's speedway, it can go either way. (Now how do people usual end these post's.... oh yes, ......end of...... simples.....these are the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Henry I completely agree! Nikki would have still struggled to make the final and if he did very unlikely to get better than 3rd, he never looked quick all night! Lisa Never have I said Nikki is an Angel, but as you no doubt watched it you could see Nikki chatting to Chris, then being pushed by somebody then it all started. Watch it again, Nicki was the one who started the pushing... I thought Nikki pushed first!? Yeah he did!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.m Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Yes that's what's been brought up before. Often a rider waits nervously as the call can go either way. Both Nicki and Chris wanted the call to go thier way. Nicki thought he was unlucky that it was all 4 back, Chris thought he was lucky. That's speedway, it can go either way. (Now how do people usual end these post's.... oh yes, ......end of...... simples.....these are the facts. Que? i was looking for clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Did Chris say he was lucky it was all four back because he deserved to go? Or could he have meant that referees often exclude a rider in that type of incident? He said on the interview on sky last night that he has been excluded for less and was lucky to be all 4 back... Edited October 9, 2012 by lisa-colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Que? i was looking for clarity. Try the OED between Clamp down and Clash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsgirl Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Que? i was looking for clarity. Well you're in the wrong forum then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 dont think ackroyd bottled it he just made the wrong decision this time as refs do in football 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaway Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 dont think ackroyd bottled it he just made the wrong decision this time as refs do in football But he didn't actually make a decision. Just took the easy way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) dont think ackroyd bottled it he just made the wrong decision this time as refs do in football But he didn't actually make a decision. Just took the easy way out. I have to agree with Blazeaway Gavan. I don't think he really made a decision, but took the easy option. Being a referee is hard, and over the years I have tried to avoid being critical of ref's, so I don't mind them making mistakes, every referee will make mistakes in every sport, On this occasion I think he chose not to make a decision for whatever reason. Either CH or NP were at fault, which one is the decision to make. Edited October 10, 2012 by TheReturn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinkox Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I dont suppose there would be 24 pages of comment on the refs decision if this had been the first GP of the season - yet it would have had the same effect on the World Championship result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I dont suppose there would be 24 pages of comment on the refs decision if this had been the first GP of the season - yet it would have had the same effect on the World Championship result. Sorry,but one of the most ridiculous posts i have seen lately.Shows no understanding of sports psycholgy or a GP season if you think a heat at the start of the season has as much impact and pressure as one of the last heats involving two riders going for the title!!!!!Asa cold statistic maybe,but as part of a world championship that statement is crazy to say the very least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I have to agree with Blazeaway Gavan. I don't think he really made a decision, but took the easy option. Being a referee is hard, and over the years I have tried to avoid being critical of ref's, so I don't mind them making mistakes, every referee will make mistakes in every sport, On this occasion I think he chose not to make a decision for whatever reason. Either CH or NP were at fault, which one is the decision to make. OR, as Craig says, it was 50/50 end he put both back. That was an option and he took it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesilmaster Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Not sure what was the correct decision, BUT... Being in the crowd at Torun, If Holder was excluded, there would of been a riot. The police had arrested 2 or 3 from the crowd, just prior to the incident. It was an atmosphere ready to go bang..... Bloody good atmosphere tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 (edited) OR, as Craig says, it was 50/50 end he put both back. That was an option and he took it. As some are saying, the easy option, or no decision at all. It wasn't 50/50. Either Pedersen illegally forced Holder over giving Holder no option but to do as he did - Pedersen to blame - or Holder was legitimately clamped but opted to go over the curb and lost control thus t-boning Pedersen - Holder to blame. Depends on where one sees the incident as starting. But the one place it never started was the start gate. That was clean. It was never an unsatisfactory start but that's the line Ackroyd took. Sorry, 'no decision - all 4 back' was a bottle-job. Edited October 11, 2012 by Barney Rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 GOING round and round again. You saw it with one pair of eyes and the referee with another. Nothing is going to change that. Or the fact that incidents on the first corner can constitute an unsatisfactory start. It's not just about what happens on the starting line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinkox Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Sorry,but one of the most ridiculous posts i have seen lately.Shows no understanding of sports psycholgy or a GP season if you think a heat at the start of the season has as much impact and pressure as one of the last heats involving two riders going for the title!!!!!Asa cold statistic maybe,but as part of a world championship that statement is crazy to say the very least I meant it as a cold statistic - which is factually and mathmatically correct. As part of the championship would not be crazy to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Gawd! Is this still going on? I've seen it time after time that an incident on the first bend is called an 'unsatisfactory start'. Sounds a bit daft but that's the way it has always been described. I'm no fan of Holder but the referee made the best decision in having a re-run of the race with all four riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cj69 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Shud have had McGreggor as the ref he aint scared of a bit of controversy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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