Referee Just Bottled Semi Decision

[TheReturn]

Most GP points over the season = World Champion.

 

Yep, shame we don't race the Elite League the same way

[Arson fire]

 

First of all you have no idea what Nicki was saying...secondly his problem should be with the ref not Holder and thirdly maybe he should just learn to keep his mouth shut occassionally!!!

 

Nicki wouldn't have gone near Holder if Boycey was there!!

Boycey couldn't put the gas out!!! ......maaarleeeene

[speedy den boy]

NO love lost between Ryan and Chris ... but you miss the point. It cannot have been as clear cut as you, and even Ryan suggest, because many people believe that Holder was not at fault and that it was a racing incident. Therefore the verdict was not one of absolute fact. It was a matter of opinion, seen in different ways by different people. There was an element of doubt, enough to persuade the referee to put all four back.

 

It is pure supposition to say that a referee from a different country would have excluded Chris. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up. Craig is a top referee and made his decision on what he saw.

 

Incidentally, it is not a decision based on 'first bend bunching.' It is 'an unsatisfactory start.' Also, a rider has to have both wheels over the curb to be excluded.

1-Polish refs seem to exclude riders when someone falls on the 1st bend,and i thought the GP big wigs wanted it that way.

2-Come on Phil you know if Holder had backed off he would have been clamped,he took a chance by cutting the curb(i know 2 wheels have to be over the white line)and by cuting the curb he was out of control,simple as that.If he wants to risk doing that he has to be excluded for hitting a rider.Holders front wheel was even on the grass where hey shoved all the water,so how can you defend him when the rider leaves the track by making the move knowing he was trying to gain an advantage.To me its simple,Holders font wheel was not on the track,therefore he hasnt a clue what will happen when he jumps the curb and he is asking for trouble.simple,i cant see how you fail to see that.

Edited October 7, 2012 by speedy den boy

[Hunty]

I still think he should have gone after watching it again. Pederson just gets infront and yes dosnt give him much room but he is within his right to do so, but that first little nudge from Holder pushes Pederson and leaves alot of room for Holder to use...However Holder is out of control after not coming of the gas as he should have done and the second contact on Pederson is the one that knocks him off when if he had come off the gas a tad he wouldnt have done that because he wouldnt have been out of control!

[eric i]

I must admit my first reaction was Holder should have been excluded but having watched all the replays from all the different angles my opinion has changed. It amazes me how the same incident looks so different from a different camera angle.

It is clear from most shots that they are side by as they enter the corner with Nicki slightly in front but there is a replay shot from the rear that shows that Holder was forced onto the grass and his front wheel is a good 2 feet onto the green with his back wheel in the line at which point he had no option but to rejoin the track and with Nicki tight to the line the collision was inevitable.

If the incident had been on the second lap I would not have liked to of called it. Sure Holder hit Nicki but aren't you supposed to give your opponent room to race especially if they are along side?

Given that the referee has the facility to re run with all 4 for first bend incidents I think it was the only sensible call.

 

Nicki was in front and chose to ride the inside and Chris put his front wheel on the grass and got a load of drive he didn't expect/couldn't handle, it was rider error. The collision was not inevitable.

Edited October 7, 2012 by eric i

[LisaColette]

Dream on Boycie hit a guy sitting on a speedway bike who was not expecting it, very brave .... Nicki would rip his arm off and hit him over the head with the soggy end

Think you'll find Boycey already done it to Nicki at Eastbourne and Nicki didn't rip his arm off!! Not as hard as he hit Gollob though and think Nicki still had has helmet on...

[AFCB Wildcat]

Nicki was in front and chose to ride the inside and Chris put his front wheel on the grass and got a load of drive he didn't expect/couldn't handle, it was rider error. The collision was not inevitable.

But in my opinion Chris had little option other than to put his wheel on the grass as Nicki came across him and left him nowhere to go. There was only half a wheel in it as the entered the corner so i don't think he had time to back off. Yes I accept he picked up drive which caused the crash but feel that he was forced off the track which was the cause of the incident.

[TheReturn]

A lot of people are saying Holder only ran into Nicki, because Nicki leaned in on him, An explanation I don't accept, but even if that was correct, then Nicki should have been excluded as the cause of the stoppage, and my original point remains, the referee bottled it.

 

All four back is the easy way out.

[lucifer sam]

So would people really like to see the World Championship settled by a refereeing decision, rather than through racing?

 

It happened on the first bend, so bringing back all four riders is a valid decision. And the right one.

 

Although if you pressed me to exclude a rider, I'd say Pedersen. He caused the incident by pushing Holder off the track. Holder did lose control, but because Nicki had shoved him onto the grass.

 

All the best

Rob

[Shale Shaker]

I'm positive Pedersen had a plan as soon as he picked gate 2 outside Holder.

 

What we saw was the result of his plan, and having executed it he milked the situation for all it was worth, including the handbags at the pit gate.

 

The only problem for Pedersen was that Holder didn't get excluded as he had intended.

 

Suppose the ref had excluded Holder, and Pedersen went on to nick the title through his pantomime act - would that then have been a fair result?

[Mini Jack]

I'm positive Pedersen had a plan as soon as he picked gate 2 outside Holder.

 

What we saw was the result of his plan, and having executed it he milked the situation for all it was worth, including the handbags at the pit gate.

 

The only problem for Pedersen was that Holder didn't get excluded as he had intended.

 

Suppose the ref had excluded Holder, and Pedersen went on to nick the title through his pantomime act - would that then have been a fair result?

 

NP didn't pick gate 2, he got the gate that was left as he finished 8th in the standings.

[dump that clutch]

Tell me BFD.... if NP was in red, and CH in blue, a total complete role reversal....would you be saying the same? If your answer is yes...you really need to look in a mirror.

 

still waiting for an answer BFD.... a truthful one please.

[Shale Shaker]

NP didn't pick gate 2, he got the gate that was left as he finished 8th in the standings.

 

Ok, I meant to say "had gate 2" rather than "picked gate 2".

 

But as I said, I'm sure he had a plan - it seemed to me as though much of his reaction after the incident looked suspiciously rehearsed rather than spontaneous.

[dump that clutch]

NO love lost between Ryan and Chris ... but you miss the point. It cannot have been as clear cut as you, and even Ryan suggest, because many people believe that Holder was not at fault and that it was a racing incident. Therefore the verdict was not one of absolute fact. It was a matter of opinion, seen in different ways by different people. There was an element of doubt, enough to persuade the referee to put all four back.

 

It is pure supposition to say that a referee from a different country would have excluded Chris. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up. Craig is a top referee and made his decision on what he saw.

 

Incidentally, it is not a decision based on 'first bend bunching.' It is 'an unsatisfactory start.' Also, a rider has to have both wheels over the curb to be excluded.

If this was the case then, surely the red lights would have been on before the contact was made in the first corner...

[PHILIPRISING]

DON'T agree. Sure Craig would have made the same decision, unsatisfactory start, all four back.

 

At the post-GP Press Conference Nicki said that had he been on the inside he would have done exactly the same. Still believe that there was an ulterior motive behind some of his histrionics after hitting the dirt.

 

Trees has a point about the Holder brothers but that doesn't alter the fact that they should not have been there. Not part of his pit crew and therefore shouldn't have been where they were.

 

How can the referee put the red lights on before contact ... it was the contact between the two riders that caused the "unsatisfactory start."

[Quad]

Any similarities??? Just saying...

 

[Ghostwalker]

1. So would people really like to see the World Championship settled by a refereeing decision, rather than through racing?

 

It happened on the first bend, 2. so bringing back all four riders is a valid decision. And the right one.

 

Although if you pressed me to exclude a rider, I'd say Pedersen. He caused the incident by pushing Holder off the track. Holder did lose control, but because Nicki had shoved him onto the grass.

 

All the best

Rob

 

That is exactly what happened. The referee had to make a decision and he made the decision that is not in the rule book.

 

By not excluding Holder, the referee gave Holder an advantage by giving him a second chance.

Holder was off a better gate then Nicki and Holder made a better start the second time.

 

 

2. Please show me where in the rules it says that the referee can allow all 4 back. The referee job is to exclude the causing of the

stoppage in this case Holder who made a worse start then Nicki. Holder then first pushed Nicki out, then lost control, then slamming

into Nicki again while still being out of control. Holder is clearly the rider at fault.

[iris123]

• Exactly Ghostwalker,the referees decison(dodgy imo)did decide the title.As i said after the incident,sad and it spoils what was a great GP season.I would echo Philip Risings words on the other thread that i do think Holder will make a good world champion.Not sure if it says much about him or just this forum now,but there aren't that many congratulations for a new world champ.Used to be page after page for most champs.But then again there used to be 60 or 70 pages on a Poole meeting before the thing had even started,now there are hardly any for the play-off final,so maybe understandable.
  

• Said over the last winter that i wasn't convinced that AJ was going to move up to challenge for the title and was proved right.This time i really hope that Antonio carries on his improved form and actually makes a challenge next year.All in all a very good GP season which promises more of the same next year
  

[Mixy230]

Nikki off of 2 ! Of course he had a plan! And it was a pretty good plan to! executed perfectly!

He did not force Chris off of the track, if he had Nikki would have been excluded. (2 wheels off the track is off the track, 1 wheel off is sometimes the riders chosen line!)

A split secound before the point of impact there was some space, but Chris got a jolt of grip and hit Nikki knocking him off.

 

Of course Nikki made the most of it. Of course if it was the other way round Nikki would have gone. Of course Nikki on the walk back to the pits had a word in Chris's ear, all good tactics and gamesmanship!

 

The most annoying thing to me was the real aggresion shown by the furry chinned one who stuck his face aggressively in Nikki's face while they were barging him away! That was not tactics or gamesmanship!

Great viewing but on reflection shockingly unprofessional.

 

All in all a good meeting, good world championship.

Holder, Pederson, Hancock, Gollob, Lindback and a few more should make a great 2013

 

Holder was the quickest and a worthy Champion on SPEED AND SKILL! Well done

[robinsgirl]

 

Somebody needs to get hold of the morons that were all around Holder on the track though, what on earth were they all doing there ? they did him no favours

I wouldn't have called Nicki a moron but he should have just walked past Chris. I wonder who will get the last say in this thread and will that make their opinion correct? Entertaining it is!