Swindon 2013

[A ORLOV]

RIDER contracts with British cubs usually expire on October 31 each year, otherwise tracks would have to provide some renumeration during the close season. Niels-Kristian Iversen, interviewed in Speedway Star this week, called for properly regulated fixed term contracts between riders and clubs in the UK, as is the case in both Poland and Sweden for example.

 

Batchelor would have no trouble attaining a work permit as he has done in the past and the BSPA might be on sticky ground if they refuse to sanction one (if, indeed, they have that right) if one of their member clubs signed him as they are entitled to do.

A fixed term contract would be a good way to go.

 

I agree with the second para re work permit, but no other member club at the moment can agree to Peterboroughs terms to sign him.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

A fixed term contract would be a good way to go.

 

 

 

Don't know about Sweden but aren't riders in Poland actually employed by the clubs for the duration of the contract and paid something whether they ride or not (with extra payments for points)?

 

I can see that proposal going down well in this country.

[Kester]

FIND it difficult to believe that it cannot be against the law of the land (if not the BSPA) that a rider (in this case Batchelor) not wanted by the club (in this case Peternorough) claiming to 'own' him cannot be free to earn a living and sign for whoever he pleases given that no valid contract exists between the two.

 

Looks like a clear case of restraint of trade to me.

 

They're a strange bunch aren't they, speedway promoters. A couple of years ago they came over all concerned about European law and scrapped the 0.25% reduction for British riders post haste, citing the legal implications. Yet they still operate a contract system from from the dark ages. Anybody would think they never think about any of this stuff and make it up as they go along......surely not.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

This is exactly the situation that caused the problem in football. Although the contract of the player had ended, he was not allowed to seek a place elsewhere due to the asset situation in football at the time. His lawyers pleaded that this was restraint of trade & the European court agreed & this is why the transfer market in European Football changed. I am sure in my mind that if the Speedway asset situation was similarly tested in court, that the asset system would cease. Sooner or later, if these problems continue to occur, someone will take it to court. Remember, Bosman was not a star player in a top European league!

 

Difference being a professional footballer only registers for one club and only plays for one club at a time so he was being stopped from playing football FULL STOP. These riders are still employed elsewhere so are actually working and not being prevented from earning a living, merely from supplementing what they already have, and, to the wrong member of an European court, from moonlighting.

[stratton]

What do Swindon fans think? how long should we wait on the Hans and Batch situation sit tight be patient or look elsewhere.A difficult call for the management i think,off the subject last week i see a bit of footage of Max Fricke god style wise reminded me so much of the Great Leigh Adams.

[Crazy robin]

What do Swindon fans think? how long should we wait on the Hans and Batch situation sit tight be patient or look elsewhere.A difficult call for the management i think,off the subject last week i see a bit of footage of Max Fricke god style wise reminded me so much of the Great Leigh Adams.

 

If we don't get Hans & Troy I can't see alot of other riders out there who we can sign so looks like Peterborough are in a strong position to me.

[EnglishRoundabout]

If we don't get Hans & Troy I can't see alot of other riders out there who we can sign so looks like Peterborough are in a strong position to me.

 

Hampel? Lindback? Maybe Jonsson or even the Zagarmeister? Just throwing names into the mix, i appreciate they are all unlikely.

[Posh Red]

 

 

If we don't get Hans & Troy I can't see alot of other riders out there who we can sign so looks like Peterborough are in a strong position to me.

 

Maybe you sign riders on short term deals, and then look to sign these two after a couple of months.

[500cc]

For Peterborough to have any rights to Batchelor there must must be some contractual agreement between the two parties. I suspect that something does exist, probably in terms of an asset agreement. For a contract to have validity it must be beneficial to both parties. Peterborough benefit in terms of loans or selling ability. The massive question is what benefit does Batchelor gain. I suspect nothing. If he is receiving a retainer fee then that me be a different matter. However, I doubt that is the case. From the outside I suspect legally there is nothing to stop Batchelor riding for who he chooses.

 

The complications then are two fold. Firstly other clubs may choose not to break gentleman agreements and sign Batchelor. Secondly, and most complicated, the BSPA may prevent Batchelor signing where (and how) he wants. That becomes very messy and a huge legal battle. If it ever reached that level, whilst I suspect the asset system as it stands would be invalidated, at the same time riders wouldn't become total free agents A rider would probably be owned, but to an agreed financial contract. Otherwise the rider would become a free agent.

[PHILIPRISING]

For Peterborough to have any rights to Batchelor there must must be some contractual agreement between the two parties. I suspect that something does exist, probably in terms of an asset agreement. For a contract to have validity it must be beneficial to both parties. Peterborough benefit in terms of loans or selling ability. The massive question is what benefit does Batchelor gain. I suspect nothing. If he is receiving a retainer fee then that me be a different matter. However, I doubt that is the case. From the outside I suspect legally there is nothing to stop Batchelor riding for who he chooses.

 

The complications then are two fold. Firstly other clubs may choose not to break gentleman agreements and sign Batchelor. Secondly, and most complicated, the BSPA may prevent Batchelor signing where (and how) he wants. That becomes very messy and a huge legal battle. If it ever reached that level, whilst I suspect the asset system as it stands would be invalidated, at the same time riders wouldn't become total free agents A rider would probably be owned, but to an agreed financial contract. Otherwise the rider would become a free agent.

 

EXACTLY ... they would sign fixed term contracts as they do elsewhere. It ain't rocket science!

[hans fan]

EXACTLY ... they would sign fixed term contracts as they do elsewhere. It ain't rocket science!

it seems you have very strong views on this matter,do you do interviews ask promoters questions in the speedway star Edited January 6, 2013 by hans fan

[johnno4]

Ironic isn't it, last season Posh didn't want Hans (past it, over the hill etc) didn't want Batch either (reasons unknown to me) so loaned to us. Great result and they shot themselves in the foot, now suddenly they want them back. Not surprising Hans & Batch are not interested, they want to stay with a successful team and fans who appreciate them.

Whether we will get them remains to be seen.

[Woz01]

 

 

Is the wording 'in this country' actually part of any law? I know 'earning a living' is, in a roundabout fashion, but they are already earning within the EU so would probably be laughed out of an EU court. Those courts are there to look after the jobless not the already earning.

Bosman was being stopped from playing football at all, not from one country whilst actively playing and earning a living elsewhere.

 

Exactly, most riders are earning in 2 or more EU countries so i dont see how it can become a restrictment of earning just because they are not riding here.

[hans fan]

Exactly, most riders are earning in 2 or more EU countries so i dont see how it can become a restrictment of earning just because they are not riding here.

makes me laugh when people keep harping on about restrictment of earning

 

so what happens if a rider wants to ride in this country gets in contact with a club and the so called club says they'd employ him but the pts limit don't allow it,can the so called rider then take the bspa to court for restrictment of earning ???

[Vincent Blachshadow]

Ironic isn't it, last season Posh didn't want Hans (past it, over the hill etc) didn't want Batch either (reasons unknown to me) so loaned to us. Great result and they shot themselves in the foot, now suddenly they want them back. Not surprising Hans & Batch are not interested, they want to stay with a successful team and fans who appreciate them.

Whether we will get them remains to be seen.

 

I think you'll find they did but lost all contact with him once the season finished. They tried contacting him several times all to no avail. It all became clear why later. I stand to be corrected here, but didn't Swindon have to pay a fine for illegally poaching/approaching a rider last year?

[PHILIPRISING]

Exactly, most riders are earning in 2 or more EU countries so i dont see how it can become a restrictment of earning just because they are not riding here.

 

IT'S not a restriction on earning, it's a restriction of trade. The fact that they ride elsewhere is (in my opinion) irrelevant. As a self-employed tradesman any restriction on a rider "trading his wares" so to speak is surely illegal?

 

I was quite heavily involved in soccer journalism at the time of the Bosman ruling and have always thought that British speedway would have to toe the line one day. I still do. SS has asked the question of many promoters over the years but they generally close ranks and say that it would be the ruination of British speedway. Presumably they include "rider assets" on their balance sheets.

 

Scrapping the asset system might result in some short term pain but could prove hugely beneficial in the longer term and might actually become a more practical and workable form of rider distribution than some of the artificial and contrived methods currently in use.

[Crump99]

Ironic isn't it, last season Posh didn't want Hans (past it, over the hill etc) didn't want Batch either (reasons unknown to me) so loaned to us. Great result and they shot themselves in the foot, now suddenly they want them back. Not surprising Hans & Batch are not interested, they want to stay with a successful team and fans who appreciate them.

Whether we will get them remains to be seen.

 

Andersen is still one of Panthers fans favourites I'd say despite not riding for the club. You're right in that we somehow engineered a massive own goal but do we want them back? That is the big question.

 

This is always worth a read (Panthers programme 2009) - gratituded and all that!

 

I know many of you have wondered what is the truth regarding Hans Andersen and his loan move to Poole and the reasons why he left last season for Coventry before I took over the club. Briefly, Hans was owed around by £60,000 . This was made up of £15,000 sponsorship in 2007 from a company owned by Colin Horton that was wound up by him with the result that Hans was never paid. The remainder was for unpaid wages and for bike covers he had paid for on behalf of the club. A total of around £45,000. When I brought the club from Colin Horton one of the things I did as part of the deal was to deduct from the sale price all moneys owing to all riders, including Hans. As a result Hans was paid all wages outstanding and also the money for the bike covers, leaving only the old Colin Horton debt of £15,000. Hans decided this year not to ride in England and concentrate his time on the GP series. He later changed his mind in late April, early May and decided he did want to ride in England. Since he is an asset of Peterborough he was always likely to be considered for a return to the club. However we made the decision to stay with the team we had. Hans was told of their decision and given permission to speak to other clubs, including Coventry and Poole. He agreed terms with Poole and that would normally have been the end of the matter but Poole never made contact with Peterborough to agree the terms and conditions of the loan agreement and sign the necessary paperwork. Clearly this is contrary to the rules of the BSPA but nevertheless the BSPA accepted his inclusion in the Poole 1-7 declaration and to this day no signed agreement is in place yet he is still riding for Poole.Our take on the situation is fairly simple. We have had no wish to stop Hans earning his living but we may possibly need to use him at ourselves this year, in the event of injury for example, and for that reason would only have given him permission for a minimum loan of 28 days which could have been renewed or extended if we didn’t need him. I have no animosity towards Hans regarding this and he is only the meat in the sandwich so to speak and earning a living in the only way he knows how, but clearly the actions of Poole are far from transparent and are in fact dishonest, contrary to the BSPA rules and indeed civil law in that they are using our club asset without our consent and without payment. Watch this space for the next instalment! (2012 by the looks of it?)

Edited January 6, 2013 by Crump99

[Bomo1]

I wondered how long it would take for Poole to be blamed for it!!!?

[stevebrum]

Don't know about Sweden but aren't riders in Poland actually employed by the clubs for the duration of the contract and paid something whether they ride or not (with extra payments for points)?

 

I can see that proposal going down well in this country.

 

Think its an excellent idea.

[Crazy robin]

Andersen is still one of Panthers fans favourites I'd say despite not riding for the club. You're right in that we somehow engineered a massive own goal but do we want them back? That is the big question.

 

This is always worth a read (Panthers programme 2009) - gratituded and all that!

 

I know many of you have wondered what is the truth regarding Hans Andersen and his loan move to Poole and the reasons why he left last season for Coventry before I took over the club. Briefly, Hans was owed around by £60,000 . This was made up of £15,000 sponsorship in 2007 from a company owned by Colin Horton that was wound up by him with the result that Hans was never paid. The remainder was for unpaid wages and for bike covers he had paid for on behalf of the club. A total of around £45,000. When I brought the club from Colin Horton one of the things I did as part of the deal was to deduct from the sale price all moneys owing to all riders, including Hans. As a result Hans was paid all wages outstanding and also the money for the bike covers, leaving only the old Colin Horton debt of £15,000. Hans decided this year not to ride in England and concentrate his time on the GP series. He later changed his mind in late April, early May and decided he did want to ride in England. Since he is an asset of Peterborough he was always likely to be considered for a return to the club. However we made the decision to stay with the team we had. Hans was told of their decision and given permission to speak to other clubs, including Coventry and Poole. He agreed terms with Poole and that would normally have been the end of the matter but Poole never made contact with Peterborough to agree the terms and conditions of the loan agreement and sign the necessary paperwork. Clearly this is contrary to the rules of the BSPA but nevertheless the BSPA accepted his inclusion in the Poole 1-7 declaration and to this day no signed agreement is in place yet he is still riding for Poole.Our take on the situation is fairly simple. We have had no wish to stop Hans earning his living but we may possibly need to use him at ourselves this year, in the event of injury for example, and for that reason would only have given him permission for a minimum loan of 28 days which could have been renewed or extended if we didn’t need him. I have no animosity towards Hans regarding this and he is only the meat in the sandwich so to speak and earning a living in the only way he knows how, but clearly the actions of Poole are far from transparent and are in fact dishonest, contrary to the BSPA rules and indeed civil law in that they are using our club asset without our consent and without payment. Watch this space for the next instalment! (2012 by the looks of it?)

 

Oh my god Poole break the rules, the shock of it.