AndyK86 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Wonder if Machin will have learnt another valuable lesson this year, don't naff off on holiday until he has done team himself instead of leaving the one man disaster Hoggy in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) God I hope this is resolved soon, its getting so tedious. It becomes tedious as soon as one person starts to bully another over semantics. It's quite clear what the orginal poster was trying to say about the Wells situation, but another has taken it upon themselves to question every nuance in a typically repetitive and pointless BSF fashion. All teams have got a budget, and they will try to persuade the riders they want usign the budget they've got, in the hope that the usual market rules of supply and demand will come into play. Wells may still decide to give it a go - it all depends on the standards he sets himself. If he can get away without a retune or three and/or he finds a new sponsor or two, he might decide to sign on the dotted line. The same applies to any riders currently looking for a team place, and those promoters looking to fill the remaining few spots. Edited January 5, 2013 by Roger Jacobs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Wonder if Machin will have learnt another valuable lesson this year, don't naff off on holiday until he has done team himself instead of leaving the one man disaster Hoggy in charge. To be fair to Hoggy he did put together the 2011 team and that was the best and most entertaining Sheffield teams since the League winning team.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyK86 Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 The thing is then though we had input from Machin, Hoggy and Boocock, this year it is just one huge mess. Team has been built in such a bad way that were going to fall way short of points limit whoever we sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Brownell Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 its beginning to look like hall and sanchez two poor riders who will never increase there averages enough to make any differance to a already very weak team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yes i agree we are in a recession but is it right to offer some one less money for risking life and limb to entertain us ? Riders costs escalate every year.It gets beyond a joke.So to take a pay cut then have more potential earnings taken away from you due to not getting 3rd place bonus points is a farce.Because of this stupid rule we will now see team mates racing against each other for an extra few quid,that will do alot for team spirit.If you dont want wells because you obviously arent a fan of him then who do you suggest as a better option ? Costs are rising; revenues aren't. So who takes the pain off the losses; the rider? the promotors? The spectators? Or do you share the pain around? If it is the latter then the riders should expect to take soem of the pain. The riders are not risking life and limb to entertain us; they are competitive sports people who want to be the best at their chosen sport, the down side is they do risk life and limb becuase that is the nature of the sport they choose to do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkk Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Ah, bless... never actually had to negotiate for anything in the real world then. Assuming the first sentence is meant to suggest that Wells would sign if he was offered the same as last year, here's a question: If he made a loss last year, why would he agree to the same terms this year? "Simple economics says that the rider will turn that deal down, whether he('s) a foreigner or British" Whatever the going rate was last year, it's different this year - for any number of riders - even run of the mill foreigners. I don't know. But then again you haven't furnished anyone with financial details of "the same sort of deal". Or the demands of any of the available riders. Lets say a rider is on £40 a point ,he needs £11,000 to purchase a van and 2 bikes , he has a 7 point average which means he should earn £280 a meeting ? minus £5 pound a start ,£20 for oil, £10 for fuel,£43 for a tyre. he is given 10p a mile travel money to pay for his van and fuel he does a 140 mile round trip costing £30 odd quid in fuel but is given £14 to cover that and pay for his van ! which leaves him with £171 left £70 of this needs to go toward his next engine service so he now has £101 to pay for a mechanic and the loan he took out to buy his 2 bikes and a van plus pay for road tax and insurance and van running costs tyres ect . oh and on top of that he will needs to buy around £1500- £2000 worth of saftey gear kevlars helmet boots gloves goggles steel shoe body armour ect ..... maybe this is why some are greedy and ask for the club to pay for there tyre ? if a rider of this level is costing a club a fortune.... speedway is in very big problems maybe its time to let the mole in LOL ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 The thing is then though we had input from Machin, Hoggy and Boocock, this year it is just one huge mess. Team has been built in such a bad way that were going to fall way short of points limit whoever we sign. But is it really so necessary to built a team that goes right up to the points limit,maybe Sheffield are going down the route of signing riders who`s averages are going to improve,and dont forget Simon Stead has taken up a fair chunk.Id admit on the face of things the Sheffield team so far doesnt look the strongest but lets see what the team looks like when its complete and what happens when the racing gets started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisperer Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 The thing is then though we had input from Machin, Hoggy and Boocock, this year it is just one huge mess. Team has been built in such a bad way that were going to fall way short of points limit whoever we sign. If you think Machin has had no input you are deluding yourself, without Hoggy there would be no team at all this year but let me assure you Hoggy is in full and regular contact, I've heard him moan about his phone bills to Oz. Your bold assumption that Machin is on holiday, like all your other assumptions is way off the mark now be a good boy and leave the forum alone you'll be late with your bus and then everyone will be moaning at you for a change. #IhateyouButler 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big johnowls Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Well fixtures will be out shortly. Bet other premier league teams will be fearing coming to Sheffield with Steady and ..... Oh hang on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieboy Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Costs are rising; revenues aren't. So who takes the pain off the losses; the rider? the promotors? The spectators? Or do you share the pain around? If it is the latter then the riders should expect to take soem of the pain. The riders are not risking life and limb to entertain us; they are competitive sports people who want to be the best at their chosen sport, the down side is they do risk life and limb becuase that is the nature of the sport they choose to do. Which ever way you want to dress it up entertainment or competetive sports person they are still risking their lives as we witnessed last season with lee richardson .I wonder how many more riders will have accepted less this year in either elite or premier league.Add to that the potential loss of bonus point earnings and i can see a few of the lesser riders packing up.Cant see steady wanting to team ride with our new lads and lose money.Look at chris schramm last season ,he couldnt make it pay.How many 3rd places did he get and how much effort did he put in for them ? Poor decision by the promoters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Sheffield are going down the route of signing riders who`s averages are going to improve, Which ones? cant see any of the five we have signed who will improve, hopefully some will maintain their starting average of the two others suggested, richard hall hasnt improved his average in years If we sign wells he could improve his so we might have gone down the route of signing one rider who could improve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Which ever way you want to dress it up entertainment or competetive sports person they are still risking their lives as we witnessed last season with lee richardson .I wonder how many more riders will have accepted less this year in either elite or premier league.Add to that the potential loss of bonus point earnings and i can see a few of the lesser riders packing up.Cant see steady wanting to team ride with our new lads and lose money.Look at chris schramm last season ,he couldnt make it pay.How many 3rd places did he get and how much effort did he put in for them ? Poor decision by the promoters. I understand what you are saying but i think you miss the point. Riders have a choice, nobody forces them to race speedway. If the money is too low, quit; if the risks of serious injury are too high, quit. I can't imagine too many kids are thinking to themselves, "how much am I going to earn if I take up speedway?", if they love the sport they just want to have a go. I don't think risk assessment rates as a major consideration when kids start racing; again they just want to have a go. So to argue that they risk life and limb then link this to the rates they are paid is a false argument; the two should never be connected. As soon as a rider starts thinking that way it surely is time to quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieboy Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I understand what you are saying but i think you miss the point. Riders have a choice, nobody forces them to race speedway. If the money is too low, quit; if the risks of serious injury are too high, quit. I can't imagine too many kids are thinking to themselves, "how much am I going to earn if I take up speedway?", if they love the sport they just want to have a go. I don't think risk assessment rates as a major consideration when kids start racing; again they just want to have a go. So to argue that they risk life and limb then link this to the rates they are paid is a false argument; the two should never be connected. As soon as a rider starts thinking that way it surely is time to quit. Im not missing the point and agree with your comment but how can any rider be expected to ride for less than the prvious year ? If they earn less through injury or poor form then so be it,Thats life,I dont know what deal he was on but knowing sheffield promotion it wont have been top dollar.So if we dont get ricky who do you think will ride for us on the money thats on offer ? As it stands if we get ricky and hally we are 1 1/2 points under the limit.Alot of pressure on the new lads to sustain their averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Im not missing the point and agree with your comment but how can any rider be expected to ride for less than the prvious year ? If they earn less through injury or poor form then so be it,Thats life,I dont know what deal he was on but knowing sheffield promotion it wont have been top dollar.So if we dont get ricky who do you think will ride for us on the money thats on offer ? As it stands if we get ricky and hally we are 1 1/2 points under the limit.Alot of pressure on the new lads to sustain their averages. I and many others are working for less than last year. I don't condone this but it's either that or find another job. Why should any sports people be protected from the economic realties of life under the coalition government. It is the lower paid workers/manual workers that are suffering because of Cameron and his mate; many speedway followers fall in to this bracket. If they are suffering this has to have a knock on effect on the sport and if you are to balance the books that will affect riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieboy Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 True and thats why the last 2 riders are important because many supporters wont tolerate another poor season.Lets hope its sorted soon and we have a more successfull season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamber Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Dakota North instead of Hally. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve55 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Dakota North instead of Hally. I wish!!! And I'll bet a lot of others also do. But 3-2-1 "you're back in the room." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oriole Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just watched Richard Hall-Tiger 2012 DVD. Excellent viewing. Really enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Shaker Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 What I am saying is why do the club pursue a rider who stated last season that he lost money riding for Sheffield for one reason or another. Why do they offer him less money for this year. surely you know what the answer is going to be, why not look for alternative riders. The club has budget fair enough but why go for a rider who yuo simply cannot afford. Obviously, we only have Ricky's word that he actually lost money last season - no-one actually know the reality. I do know that if I were trying to negotiate a better deal for this year, I would maybe consider making the claim that I lost money on the previous year's deal. It's the oldest trick in the book - ask any used car salesman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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