luluthetiger Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 he has a job in Leeds so is staying for a while then going back home for the final preperation, and some sun That sounds positive, if he is working here. Does he have, or not need, a work permit? Saw on another thread some worries that first-time Aussies who haven't reached a certain standard might not get the necessary OK. This after the fuss when Glasgow got a last-minute OK for Jayden O'Malley last year - which was proved to be the wrong decision, and must have sharpened the authorities' thinking on unknown quantities when speedway work permits are applied for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyK86 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) We have gambled quite a bit with this team and who knows how next season will go but i am quite pleased we now have 3 new riders who are now a asset to the club, sometimes it means nothing but it is better than a team full of loan riders. The only downside for me is Richard Hall coming back as he has had chance after chance but bring on next march i can see us becoming a strong home team again with Steady, Wells, Haines and Hall quite a good top four at Owlerton but away from home we could be on the end of some beatings yet again. Edited December 14, 2012 by AndyK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILYRAG Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) I am not sure that referring to those who dare to criticise the team line up as 'mealy mouthed negative b'stards' has too many interpretations. My boss is fantastic but she occasionally says to me that 'we need to be positive about this' and that almost always means bad news that I won't like. Being positive or negative is simply having a prejudiced view of the facts (one for the best, the other for the worst) and as I never deal in prejudice I prefer to just call it as I see it. You seem to believe that being critical is just being negative and it isn't. In my view, most of the critical posts on this thread are neither positive nor negative, just absolutely realistic (Spinny's excellent post below being a typical example). Go through the threads on Somerset, Ipswich, Workington, Berwick, Scunthorpe, Leicester and others and you will see fans looking forward to next season with anticipation, excitement and optimism. Indeed, when Steady was signed that was the case on here too. Those posts have all but disappeared thanks to the next three signings, coupled with the fact that Koppe is a major gamble. At best they are hopeful, at worst critical. The difference between my view and yours is that mine is absolutely impartial, yours is anything but. Strangely, though, we both want what's best for Sheffield Speedway and its ability to grow and prosper. I genuinely hope that my dire predictions are totally inaccurate and that the Tigers have a successful season on and off track. If they do, I will need no prompting to come on here, admit that I got it wrong (indeed it would be a pleasure to do so) and eat a big chunk of humble pie. Somehow, if you are wrong I can't see you doing the same thing. Superb post, mate. Sums it up brilliantly. You just called those who are critical 'mealy mouthed negative b'stards'. As I have said before, they are not being negative, just realistic (which in fact is even more damning - only those with an axe to grind are negative, and their comments can be dismissed). It isn't a good way to support your team, but if you put out what fans perceive to be a poor side, what do you expect - them all to fool themselves and say things are fantastic when they aren't ? I'd be the first to admit that it is extremely easy for me (and others) to suggest signing this or that rider because we are not responsible or liable in any way. Indeed, its fair to say that Neil Machin has run a club that has been remarkably financial stable over many years. That, however, ended last season, and that was primarily because of the extremely poor choice of the team. What I (and every diehard Sheffield fan) are concerned about is that the same thing will happen this season and that that will be the end of the Tigers. There is a balance between financial security and ensuring that the product is attractive enough. The nub of my point is that Sheffield have got the balance wrong and will pay dearly for it. HT ... just get your 15 quid a week out and STFU , you have no right to come on a discusion forum and say how you think riders will perform in the team you are paying to watch next season ! You don't half talk crap Elephant , are you Hoggy in disguise ? Edited December 14, 2012 by OILYRAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 HT ... just get your 15 quid a week out and STFU , you have no right to come on a discusion forum and say how you think riders will perform in the team you are paying to watch next season ! You don't half talk crap Elephant , are you Hoggy in disguise ? I don't go to Sheffield a lot but I like going there. Usually get some decent speedway and the presence of Spinny,Sunglasses Dave, Tigerite, Squall & SKJ is a major bonus. I'll still be going, but its not the likes of me that the club needs to attract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Maybe, just maybe, Hall (if signed) will copy James Grieves owlerton form and suddenly become quite good away from home for no apparent reason. Who would have thought that Grieves would ever a) turn up and win races in Sheffield?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyK86 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think James Grieves was always capable of doing well round Owlerton and a lot of it is mental attitude of the rider, they visit these tracks every year and should just be confident in their own ability as a speedway rider whether if its on small or big tracks, fast or technical. If they can't grasp it like Hall on away tracks then maybe there just not a very good rider overall which is why i cant believe Machin and Hoggy keep bringing him back, i would have been well chuffed if we actually signed a rider like Grieves for next season to back up Steady and Wells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I am not sure that referring to those who dare to criticise the team line up as 'mealy mouthed negative b'stards' has too many interpretations. Fair comment; posted when I had just had a gutfull of reading negative comments. However my view will not change; their is a right way to criticise and a wrong way. You quite correcly highlight that I dealt with the critics in the wrong way; eqaully there are a number of regular posters who just whinge. In my view that isn't support or supportive it's undermining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Maybe, just maybe, Hall (if signed) will copy James Grieves owlerton form and suddenly become quite good away from home for no apparent reason. Who would have thought that Grieves would ever a) turn up and win races in Sheffield?!? one miracle yes, two? Fair comment; posted when I had just had a gutfull of reading negative comments. However my view will not change; their is a right way to criticise and a wrong way. You quite correcly highlight that I dealt with the critics in the wrong way; eqaully there are a number of regular posters who just whinge. In my view that isn't support or supportive it's undermining. who does it undermine, and how, are there really any speedway riders with such a gentle disposition that they get upset by what a few people say on here? and it is only a few people who come on here, how many have contributed 10 at most, so no one can claim to be representative of the fan base at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 HT ... just get your 15 quid a week out and STFU , you have no right to come on a discusion forum and say how you think riders will perform in the team you are paying to watch next season ! You don't half talk crap Elephant , are you Hoggy in disguise ? It's actually your ignorant crap that is the problem. I have not read a single positive post from you that I can recall; earlier you admitted that you only post to moan. Most other critics have some logic to there argument your views are just good old fashioned abuse from what I have read! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILYRAG Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Abuse ? All I have said some of the riders signed are not upto the job IMO and that Sheffields decline coincides with the start of a certian co-promotors input ! Edited December 14, 2012 by OILYRAG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMS Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 What i don't understand is this obsession for riders to do well away from home,considering a possible fan base away from home of around 30 or so,i would have hoped for measures to be taken this winter to win back the lost fans to Owlerton and i'm not sure this has been achieved, but hope i am wrong. If you take maximum points at home your going to finish in the play offs and then that, along with the other competitions, comes down to single home and away ties To my mind some of the best meetings i've seen at Sheffield is when we had lost heavily away to the likes of Exeter and IOW and had to beat them at home by a bigger margin,some classic meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMS Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 What i don't understand is this obsession for riders to do well away from home,considering a possible fan base away from home of around 30 or so,i would have hoped for measures to be taken this winter to win back the lost fans to Owlerton and i'm not sure this has been achieved, but hope i am wrong. If you take maximum points at home your going to finish in the play offs and then that, along with the other competitions, comes down to single home and away ties To my mind some of the best meetings i've seen at Sheffield is when we had lost heavily away to the likes of Exeter and IOW and had to beat them at home by a bigger margin,some classic meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyK86 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Because them 30 or so people who have travelled down want value for money performance from the team they are supporting, to folk out £100 plus to watch your team get battered and watch likes of Richard Hall look like he needs training wheels on certain tracks does not achieve that and with the way the points system works now it can be very profitable team a good away win or tight loss. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msc1874 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 What i don't understand is this obsession for riders to do well away from home,considering a possible fan base away from home of around 30 or so,i would have hoped for measures to be taken this winter to win back the lost fans to Owlerton and i'm not sure this has been achieved, but hope i am wrong. If you take maximum points at home your going to finish in the play offs and then that, along with the other competitions, comes down to single home and away ties To my mind some of the best meetings i've seen at Sheffield is when we had lost heavily away to the likes of Exeter and IOW and had to beat them at home by a bigger margin,some classic meetings With the way the points system works teams need to pick up some points on the road. This illusion that win at home and get thumped away from home will not spell success long term. Fans who travel to away matches, sometimes planning holidays around tours should be rewarded with a team that at least can put up a show or do these 30 or so fans not matter? Away fans meeting home fans is what thus sport is all about. What if you have a bad home match and need to make up for that away from home. You need to have that ability. All fans matter and yes of course you need to be strong at home, but getting thumped away from home does nothing for morale and remember if riders don't score they don't earn, they can't reinvest in their machines. Success breeds success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Because them 30 or so people who have travelled down want value for money performance from the team they are supporting, to folk out £100 plus to watch your team get battered and watch likes of Richard Hall look like he needs training wheels on certain tracks does not achieve that and with the way the points system works now it can be very profitable team a good away win or tight loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Duppcomic Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) Abuse ? All I have said some of the riders signed are not upto the job IMO and that Sheffields decline coincides with the start of a certian co-promotors input ! Not sure I understand the promoter reference. When did he come on board? Don't think Sheffield have done too bad up until 2012 have they? The 2011 team he built was pretty good. Edited December 15, 2012 by Stan Duppcomic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky from Sheffield Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 Because them 30 or so people who have travelled down want value for money performance from the team they are supporting, to folk out £100 plus to watch your team get battered and watch likes of Richard Hall look like he needs training wheels on certain tracks does not achieve that and with the way the points system works now it can be very profitable team a good away win or tight loss. You're right of course, but those who were at the STAARs meeting the other night will have heard how parlous the situation is. They have a 3 point strategy for survival. 1. Win at home, 2 build the asset base, 3 control the finances. This season is about guerrilla tactics for survival, and that means winning at home to keep the several hundred more that go to HOME meetings happy.The view shared at STAARs was that you won't get a better rider round Owlerton on an average as low as Richard's (which obviously has the downside of his away form in the past). If this is the last throw of the dice they HAVE to win at home and anything else is a bonus. Not great but reality. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luluthetiger Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 You're right of course, but those who were at the STAARs meeting the other night will have heard how parlous the situation is. They have a 3 point strategy for survival. 1. Win at home, 2 build the asset base, 3 control the finances. 100% correct way to go. Except maybe that 3) is more important than the other two! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerami Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 I understand Machin keeping a tight reign on finances, but has Hoggy got less money to spend than any other premier league side, cos thats what this team suggests? Or is it just that Hoggy aint got a bloody clue?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Shaker Posted December 15, 2012 Report Share Posted December 15, 2012 You're right of course, but those who were at the STAARs meeting the other night will have heard how parlous the situation is. They have a 3 point strategy for survival. 1. Win at home, 2 build the asset base, 3 control the finances. This season is about guerrilla tactics for survival, and that means winning at home to keep the several hundred more that go to HOME meetings happy.The view shared at STAARs was that you won't get a better rider round Owlerton on an average as low as Richard's (which obviously has the downside of his away form in the past). If this is the last throw of the dice they HAVE to win at home and anything else is a bonus. Not great but reality. Thanks for that Sparky. A good insight. Some people here need to get in touch with the reality of the situation, deal with it, and get behind the team we have. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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