The Third Man Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I hope it is Thursday, but if a decision has been made, why not put in on the website. I know of supporters who would go less often on Sunday's so if it is true would make sense to let the fans know, before they start thinking of what else to do on Thursday nights. the change was proposed when stead said he still wanted to ride for swindon, was that was sorted there was no reason to move i am very sorry elephant man but i work hard for my money and if i dont want to sponser sheffield speedway with it i wont, if we lose speedway in sheffield it will be because the product was not worth supporting, if it was people will come,so dont blame supporters, i will pick and choose meetings next year, even more than i did last season, and i know two supporters who didnt attend last season and who wont be coming back this season, they were tempted with stead, but the latest signings have left him saving £30 plus drinks and petrol each week again Surely, given the rolling averages, assessed averages are the way to go (And, you have 4 of them, not 3...) If, after 12 meetings, Albin, Koppe, Stead and Knight aren't hitting their averages, they will drop, but those who improve won't change much due to the rolling aspect of their averages. You could find yourselves with a few points to play with, and if used correctly, could help fire you up the league. how often do sheffield drop riders? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 how often do sheffield drop riders? No idea. I'm not a Sheffield fan anyway, I just liked laughing at their misfortune while I was at uni there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I wish he was coming to Berwick can't wait till Sheffield visit next season, want to see the smug smiles wiped off the doubters faces x Sheffield have taken a gamble that Im pleased Berwick did not take,maybe Albin will turn out a winner at Owlerton but IMO i dont see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerami Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I would hope that my posts don't need your slant or interpretation. All I am saying is that I'm sick to death of some of the people who post on this forum that have nothing positive to say about Sheffield, either the team being put together or the promotion. Every winter the same names appear spouting the same drivel. Fortunately you are in the minority as the silent majority may not post an opinion but the certainly do use the like button. I've spent 50+ years participating in and supporting team sports; in all that time I've not experienced one team perform well when there is constant criticism and negative comments from their so called support. On the other hand I've seen average teams perform brilliantly when everyone gets behind them. All you whingers really need to decide what you want; a team to support that will do it's best or a team like England's football team that can't perform at Wembley because the slightest error or mistake has every so called fan and journalist on their backs? I know which camp I'm in. I think your missing the point Elephantman, ive been following Sheffield speedway for 10 years, and other than when ive been away, ive been to every home meeting, apart from last year when i only went to 4 meetings earlier on in the season. I, like many of the other posters on here, thought last years team septet looked awful, and so it turned out, so i stopped going, like many others!! This years team (Steady apart) is looking just as bad!! I will turn up at the start of the season again, but if the team and racing is as bad as last year (which i hope im wrong, but suspect it might be) then i will stop going!!! I commend you on your positivity, and the fact youll keep turning up whatever, but im sorry, no amount of happy clappers is going to make me turn up if im not enjoying the product im being served up!! And yes i agree, i am not what youd call a loyal supporter, but i do enjoy if im being entertained, and see my team winning. What worries me, is that there will be a lot of other supporters out there like me, and if the crowds carry on, or possibly get worse than last year, then there will be no more speedway at Sheffield!!! We were told it was important to get the right team together this year, with 2 x 8+ averaged heat leaders, well thats looking a joke, unless Hoggy as got a surprise up his sleeve!!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Surely, given the rolling averages, assessed averages are the way to go (And, you have 4 of them, not 3...) If, after 12 meetings, Albin, Koppe, Stead and Knight aren't hitting their averages, they will drop, but those who improve won't change much due to the rolling aspect of their averages. You could find yourselves with a few points to play with, and if used correctly, could help fire you up the league. So sign over half a team because there is a strong possibility they will drop their averages and allow for strengthening up to be made? Why not just sign a decent team to start off with? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SAINT Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 and i know two supporters who didnt attend last season and who wont be coming back this season, who's the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 who's the other? bev??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I would hope that my posts don't need your slant or interpretation. All I am saying is that I'm sick to death of some of the people who post on this forum that have nothing positive to say about Sheffield, either the team being put together or the promotion. Every winter the same names appear spouting the same drivel. Fortunately you are in the minority as the silent majority may not post an opinion but the certainly do use the like button. I've spent 50+ years participating in and supporting team sports; in all that time I've not experienced one team perform well when there is constant criticism and negative comments from their so called support. On the other hand I've seen average teams perform brilliantly when everyone gets behind them. All you whingers really need to decide what you want; a team to support that will do it's best or a team like England's football team that can't perform at Wembley because the slightest error or mistake has every so called fan and journalist on their backs? I know which camp I'm in. thats probably because you don't care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans lovechild Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 we keep hearing the word " gamble" but every team assembled before each season is surely a gamble, with our asset base at probably an all time low,the promotion has seen this as something that needs rectifying,full credit to them for doing something to address this, if the 5 pt guys come off - its a bonus. if they dont - it will allow changes come may, same for jake knight can always return to NL racing if things dont turn out and still remain an asset for the future, we need to wait until march cos as we all know too well titles are won on a track and not on a piece of paper with 7 names on. so lets give em a chance first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SAINT Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 bev??????? oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I've spent 50+ years participating in and supporting team sports; in all that time I've not experienced one team perform well when there is constant criticism and negative comments from their so called support. On the other hand I've seen average teams perform brilliantly when everyone gets behind them. Surely the negative and constant critcism of any team is because the team has not being doing well in the first place over a period of time ..there was plenty of negative comment about Simon Stead last year and because of that he done something about it and it done him good ,thats why people do it in the hope that it will do some good . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spin king Posted December 13, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I would hope that my posts don't need your slant or interpretation. All I am saying is that I'm sick to death of some of the people who post on this forum that have nothing positive to say about Sheffield, either the team being put together or the promotion. Every winter the same names appear spouting the same drivel. Fortunately you are in the minority as the silent majority may not post an opinion but the certainly do use the like button. I've spent 50+ years participating in and supporting team sports; in all that time I've not experienced one team perform well when there is constant criticism and negative comments from their so called support. On the other hand I've seen average teams perform brilliantly when everyone gets behind them. All you whingers really need to decide what you want; a team to support that will do it's best or a team like England's football team that can't perform at Wembley because the slightest error or mistake has every so called fan and journalist on their backs? I know which camp I'm in. Its posts like these that really frustrate me. Why should fans just simply accept and not make comments about their team. I never missed a meeting at home last season, and frankly it was bloody hard work and demoralizing, there was a few bright points Joe Haines slowly getting back to some sort of form and getting his career back on track, but other than sitting on one Friday night looking at the live updates from Plymouth to see if we are going to finish bottom of the league. When the dust had settled the Promotion admitted themselves that the team had been poor and promised us action with a team that would be challenging and two out of those first three signing gave most of us cause for optimism with the signing of Joe Haines and Simon Stead. But then you look at the rest of the team and we have brought in 3 riders on assessed averages, okay thy maybe riders who have potential, but at this particular moment what the club needed and its not fair on the those riders as well.as we are now expecting them to achieve those assessed averages and they will be under pressure from the word go. The next two signing are said to be Ricky Wells and Richard Hall, Ricky Wells I prepared to admit deserves a chance to come back to the club, because I think that he could do well next season, but Christ-sakes Richard Hall. In 2010, we told that the club had re-signed Richard Hall, but he needed to improve on his away form, result Richard Hall was god at home poor away from home. In 2012 Richard Hall returns to the club, we are told that Richard is been made captain and the Promotion feel that it will be the making of him, result Richard averages 8.35 at home meetings 5.08 away meetings. For the 2013 season Sheffield announce that they are in talks with Richard and he has been told to improve his away form, and Richard is determined and has bought new equipment, starting to feel a bit like Deja-vu How many more chances are the club going to give Richard Hall before they wake up and smell the coffee and realise that he has his limitations Of the team proposed I would have signed. Simon Stead Joe Haines Ricky Wells Then one of or at the most two from Damien Koppe Facu Albin Jake Knight We are now faced going into a season with three very inexperienced riders, one who will have to ride in the main body of the team, and a second heatleader who is nothing more than of 2nd string standard away from home. But at the end if the day I will be there every Thursday by the benches with Squall and SKJ, cheering on these riders because they pull on the Sheffield race jacket and like every other speedway fan I want my team to win, like many of the others who have passed comment on the team. The one thing that is needed to bring back the crowds is a team that will hit the ground running and win meetings not only at home but odd meeting away from home, but I just don't see that happening next season, and although I do think it could be a better team than last season its not going to get anywhere near challenging for honours.. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oriole Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't get all this negative stuff. I like speedway and enjoy the racing at Owlerton. Sheffield is my team and I will support them and attend whenever I can home and away. Wouldn't dream of staying at home cos I didn't agree with the team selection. Up the Tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephantman Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Its posts like these that really frustrate me. Why should fans just simply accept and not make comments about their team. I have never posted that you should not make comments about the team. What my post imply and indicate is that if those posts are constantly negative, constantly criticize the promotion and constantly imply that the new riders are not going to be good enough the result will be the "self fullfilling prophecy". i.e. If enough people say you are crap you will be crap! The constant barage of bile from a few posters will undermine the morale of the new riders, p of the promotion and unsettle other supporters. Now if you think that is a good way to support your team that is a different viewpoint to mine. There is a huge difference between constructive criticism and what is generally posted on the Sheffield thread every winter (by the way I don't generally include your posts in that category). The underlying comments from a few posters are always along the lines of "Machin is too tight to pay". Well it appears to me that Machin has run a financially viable speedway for many years, with Sheffield there or there abouts at the top of the competitions for the majority of that time. To use another football analogy Sheffield are rather like the Arsenal of the of the speedway world; properly run, generally succesfull with some supporters not valuing or appreciating what has been achieved. I would dare to suggest most speedway supporters would want a set up like Sheffield just as most football supporters would be estatic if their team had achived what Arsenal have. To sum up my view is that is is not what you say, it is how you say it that matters and I am criticisng how people are saying things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I hope it is Thursday, but if a decision has been made, why not put in on the website. I know of supporters who would go less often on Sunday's so if it is true would make sense to let the fans know, before they start thinking of what else to do on Thursday nights. To quote Mr Hoggy in this week's comic - The move, following talks with the stadium landlords, was called off because it wasn't deemed viable. We had to look at alternatives because we need to improve our crowd levels after a pretty bad 2012. Sundays seemed the main possibility but we have decided to stay as we are. Hopefully, with the new look team, supporters will respond accordingly on Thursdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) Positive night at Starrs, hoogy couldnt turn up, sorry Dave, nice to see damien and jake there along with Jordon Tyrer, and Richard Knight and Paul Tyrer, what ave would they come on. We will now have to wait and see i suppose, just like we did last season at this stage, still worried but the two new lads there were positive, wanted to ride for Sheffield so heres hoping lastly on Starrs thanks Des for the cheapish beer and on to the Barrack for the next meeting Edited December 14, 2012 by The Third Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoobie Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Do u tigers fans fancy swapping Hall for Aarnio then?? .......... Thought not lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luluthetiger Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Positive night at Starrs, hoogy couldnt turn up, sorry Dave, nice to see damien and jake there Is Damien Koppe wintering in England, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would hope that my posts don't need your slant or interpretation. All I am saying is that I'm sick to death of some of the people who post on this forum that have nothing positive to say about Sheffield, either the team being put together or the promotion. Every winter the same names appear spouting the same drivel. Fortunately you are in the minority as the silent majority may not post an opinion but the certainly do use the like button. I've spent 50+ years participating in and supporting team sports; in all that time I've not experienced one team perform well when there is constant criticism and negative comments from their so called support. On the other hand I've seen average teams perform brilliantly when everyone gets behind them. All you whingers really need to decide what you want; a team to support that will do it's best or a team like England's football team that can't perform at Wembley because the slightest error or mistake has every so called fan and journalist on their backs? I know which camp I'm in. I am not sure that referring to those who dare to criticise the team line up as 'mealy mouthed negative b'stards' has too many interpretations. My boss is fantastic but she occasionally says to me that 'we need to be positive about this' and that almost always means bad news that I won't like. Being positive or negative is simply having a prejudiced view of the facts (one for the best, the other for the worst) and as I never deal in prejudice I prefer to just call it as I see it. You seem to believe that being critical is just being negative and it isn't. In my view, most of the critical posts on this thread are neither positive nor negative, just absolutely realistic (Spinny's excellent post below being a typical example). Go through the threads on Somerset, Ipswich, Workington, Berwick, Scunthorpe, Leicester and others and you will see fans looking forward to next season with anticipation, excitement and optimism. Indeed, when Steady was signed that was the case on here too. Those posts have all but disappeared thanks to the next three signings, coupled with the fact that Koppe is a major gamble. At best they are hopeful, at worst critical. The difference between my view and yours is that mine is absolutely impartial, yours is anything but. Strangely, though, we both want what's best for Sheffield Speedway and its ability to grow and prosper. I genuinely hope that my dire predictions are totally inaccurate and that the Tigers have a successful season on and off track. If they do, I will need no prompting to come on here, admit that I got it wrong (indeed it would be a pleasure to do so) and eat a big chunk of humble pie. Somehow, if you are wrong I can't see you doing the same thing. Its posts like these that really frustrate me. Why should fans just simply accept and not make comments about their team. I never missed a meeting at home last season, and frankly it was bloody hard work and demoralizing, there was a few bright points Joe Haines slowly getting back to some sort of form and getting his career back on track, but other than sitting on one Friday night looking at the live updates from Plymouth to see if we are going to finish bottom of the league. When the dust had settled the Promotion admitted themselves that the team had been poor and promised us action with a team that would be challenging and two out of those first three signing gave most of us cause for optimism with the signing of Joe Haines and Simon Stead. But then you look at the rest of the team and we have brought in 3 riders on assessed averages, okay thy maybe riders who have potential, but at this particular moment what the club needed and its not fair on the those riders as well.as we are now expecting them to achieve those assessed averages and they will be under pressure from the word go. The next two signing are said to be Ricky Wells and Richard Hall, Ricky Wells I prepared to admit deserves a chance to come back to the club, because I think that he could do well next season, but Christ-sakes Richard Hall. In 2010, we told that the club had re-signed Richard Hall, but he needed to improve on his away form, result Richard Hall was god at home poor away from home. In 2012 Richard Hall returns to the club, we are told that Richard is been made captain and the Promotion feel that it will be the making of him, result Richard averages 8.35 at home meetings 5.08 away meetings. For the 2013 season Sheffield announce that they are in talks with Richard and he has been told to improve his away form, and Richard is determined and has bought new equipment, starting to feel a bit like Deja-vu How many more chances are the club going to give Richard Hall before they wake up and smell the coffee and realise that he has his limitations Of the team proposed I would have signed. Simon Stead Joe Haines Ricky Wells Then one of or at the most two from Damien Koppe Facu Albin Jake Knight We are now faced going into a season with three very inexperienced riders, one who will have to ride in the main body of the team, and a second heatleader who is nothing more than of 2nd string standard away from home. But at the end if the day I will be there every Thursday by the benches with Squall and SKJ, cheering on these riders because they pull on the Sheffield race jacket and like every other speedway fan I want my team to win, like many of the others who have passed comment on the team. The one thing that is needed to bring back the crowds is a team that will hit the ground running and win meetings not only at home but odd meeting away from home, but I just don't see that happening next season, and although I do think it could be a better team than last season its not going to get anywhere near challenging for honours.. Superb post, mate. Sums it up brilliantly. I have never posted that you should not make comments about the team. What my post imply and indicate is that if those posts are constantly negative, constantly criticize the promotion and constantly imply that the new riders are not going to be good enough the result will be the "self fullfilling prophecy". i.e. If enough people say you are crap you will be crap! The constant barage of bile from a few posters will undermine the morale of the new riders, p of the promotion and unsettle other supporters. Now if you think that is a good way to support your team that is a different viewpoint to mine. There is a huge difference between constructive criticism and what is generally posted on the Sheffield thread every winter (by the way I don't generally include your posts in that category). The underlying comments from a few posters are always along the lines of "Machin is too tight to pay". Well it appears to me that Machin has run a financially viable speedway for many years, with Sheffield there or there abouts at the top of the competitions for the majority of that time. To use another football analogy Sheffield are rather like the Arsenal of the of the speedway world; properly run, generally succesfull with some supporters not valuing or appreciating what has been achieved. I would dare to suggest most speedway supporters would want a set up like Sheffield just as most football supporters would be estatic if their team had achived what Arsenal have. To sum up my view is that is is not what you say, it is how you say it that matters and I am criticisng how people are saying things. You just called those who are critical 'mealy mouthed negative b'stards'. As I have said before, they are not being negative, just realistic (which in fact is even more damning - only those with an axe to grind are negative, and their comments can be dismissed). It isn't a good way to support your team, but if you put out what fans perceive to be a poor side, what do you expect - them all to fool themselves and say things are fantastic when they aren't ? I'd be the first to admit that it is extremely easy for me (and others) to suggest signing this or that rider because we are not responsible or liable in any way. Indeed, its fair to say that Neil Machin has run a club that has been remarkably financial stable over many years. That, however, ended last season, and that was primarily because of the extremely poor choice of the team. What I (and every diehard Sheffield fan) are concerned about is that the same thing will happen this season and that that will be the end of the Tigers. There is a balance between financial security and ensuring that the product is attractive enough. The nub of my point is that Sheffield have got the balance wrong and will pay dearly for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Is Damien Koppe wintering in England, then? he has a job in Leeds so is staying for a while then going back home for the final preperation, and some sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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