Joe Haines Signs For Dudley

[Damon]

Good luck to Dudley, just not against Mildenhall Ideally we would all have loads of riders to choose between at all levels, but the reality is we haven't. If you are running a club to attract customers and fans then you have to be competative and Dudley are, so they have built something worth watching. If the NL was solely a development league where for instance you lose your number 1 and then you give that position to a youngster who isnt really anygood, then it makes you uncompetative, the fans won't continue to pay money for that product for long.

Ideally you could have the NL and then a league that sits beneath this to help promote and improve the lads that aren't of a standard to race to paying public each week. This has happened to some extent in the junior 2nd half racing this year, but this needs to be done at all clubs all over the country.

The problem is there doesnt seem to be enough riders to go round, so we all have to keep using each others, this happens from EL down to NL.

This is in an ideal world, and unfortunately we don't have that in Britain with Sppedway, so for the time being we have to get on with what structure and rules we do have and the rules say Dudley can sign Joe Haines.

[villiers210]

Good luck to Dudley, just not against Mildenhall Ideally we would all have loads of riders to choose between at all levels, but the reality is we haven't. If you are running a club to attract customers and fans then you have to be competative and Dudley are, so they have built something worth watching. If the NL was solely a development league where for instance you lose your number 1 and then you give that position to a youngster who isnt really anygood, then it makes you uncompetative, the fans won't continue to pay money for that product for long.

Ideally you could have the NL and then a league that sits beneath this to help promote and improve the lads that aren't of a standard to race to paying public each week. This has happened to some extent in the junior 2nd half racing this year, but this needs to be done at all clubs all over the country.

The problem is there doesnt seem to be enough riders to go round, so we all have to keep using each others, this happens from EL down to NL.

This is in an ideal world, and unfortunately we don't have that in Britain with Sppedway, so for the time being we have to get on with what structure and rules we do have and the rules say Dudley can sign Joe Haines.

Without question the most sensible post on here from someone who isn't biased. It's high time that people realised that the NL will always be in trouble if it doesn't give the paying public competitive racing. It is a development league. I know it's not all about Dudley, and nor would I want it to be, but looking at our own squad (and not including Adam Roynon) we have 2 riders who are holding reserve positions at clubs in the PL, and another 2 who have also made appearances there. Is this not development?

 

Whatever structure you have in the NL, and whatever rules you put in place, it has to be paid for by Joe public, and if it ain't entertaining, then there's only one way it will end up. Speedway is an expensive business, both for the competitors and also the promoters. It costs a stupid amount of money these days to host any form of motor sport. I know to one rider in particular who reckoned that if he accepted a deal that he was offered earlier in the season, he would need to score a bag full of points to break even. It all has to be paid for.

 

If we want a 3rd tier of Speedway in this country, then we have to make it attractive and at the same time accept the fact that it isn't a training school. It is no longer the starting point in British speedway. As I see it, that is now the role of the likes of the MDL, and I hope they continue with the fine work they are doing.

Edited September 13, 2012 by villiers210

[adz_mft]

Good luck to Dudley, just not against Mildenhall Ideally we would all have loads of riders to choose between at all levels, but the reality is we haven't. If you are running a club to attract customers and fans then you have to be competative and Dudley are, so they have built something worth watching. If the NL was solely a development league where for instance you lose your number 1 and then you give that position to a youngster who isnt really anygood, then it makes you uncompetative, the fans won't continue to pay money for that product for long.

Ideally you could have the NL and then a league that sits beneath this to help promote and improve the lads that aren't of a standard to race to paying public each week. This has happened to some extent in the junior 2nd half racing this year, but this needs to be done at all clubs all over the country.

The problem is there doesnt seem to be enough riders to go round, so we all have to keep using each others, this happens from EL down to NL.

This is in an ideal world, and unfortunately we don't have that in Britain with Sppedway, so for the time being we have to get on with what structure and rules we do have and the rules say Dudley can sign Joe Haines.

 

Top post mate

[Fromafar]

Good luck to Dudley, just not against Mildenhall Ideally we would all have loads of riders to choose between at all levels, but the reality is we haven't. If you are running a club to attract customers and fans then you have to be competative and Dudley are, so they have built something worth watching. If the NL was solely a development league where for instance you lose your number 1 and then you give that position to a youngster who isnt really anygood, then it makes you uncompetative, the fans won't continue to pay money for that product for long.

Ideally you could have the NL and then a league that sits beneath this to help promote and improve the lads that aren't of a standard to race to paying public each week. This has happened to some extent in the junior 2nd half racing this year, but this needs to be done at all clubs all over the country.

The problem is there doesnt seem to be enough riders to go round, so we all have to keep using each others, this happens from EL down to NL.

This is in an ideal world, and unfortunately we don't have that in Britain with Sppedway, so for the time being we have to get on with what structure and rules we do have and the rules say Dudley can sign Joe Haines.

NL was intended to be a development League IMO. Who is going to finance a league to sit below what is already meant to be that league.Trouble is riders are allowed to jump back and forth and make a mockery of the sport. Ask Joe to help out and ride for nothing and wait for his reply,Which is really what you are saying about your other league . Edited September 13, 2012 by Fromafar

[hunch]

Dudley can sign who they want within the rules of the sport...a bigger issue exists though in terms of the wellbeing of the league itself.

 

The big clubs can pay whatever they want,and given the level of rider that has been attracted into the league that must be getting close to premier league pay rates..not a new thing, all clubs bar Buxton have given above the standard rate im sure in the past...but never at the level its at now.

 

Dudley fans are rightly proud of their club and want it to do well...good luck to them for that,but also get used to the fact that you will be competing in a four team league..clubs like Buxton and the non stand alones cant live with you at the levels your setting.

[spin king]

I think the days of describing The National League as a Development league have long gone.

 

While ever the league is made up of teams that have differing Agenda's, where you have teams that are stand alone teams or teams that are basically 2nd teams of senior teams.

 

I do find it very funny that the more complaints come from the likes of Stoke, Rye House and Scunthorpe.

 

Stoke have used Tony Atkin for the last two seasons who is nearly as old as me.

 

Rye House David Mason

 

And Scunthorpe who have an abundance of young talent at their finger tips at the start of the season were prepared to use Jason King

 

As for Joe Haines riding in the short term replacement for Adam Roynon, well he is rider who is or has been putting his career back on track, and the thing he needs is extra rides, and I find it more frustrating to see the riders above getting place or been given the opportunity rather than Joe taking some rides on a very short term basis.

[hunch]

I dont think the majority of people have a problem with Joe or Dudley in particular...more the way the league is heading.

I agree its moving away from its development status..even more so with wealthy clubs setting the pace.

 

Only three or four clubs can afford to run at the levels Dudley can afford..if you can run a sensible league around that then by all means continue down the current path because i dont believe the rest can and clubs will be lost to the league.

 

I actually think the likes of Rye house,Scunthorpe,Buxton and Kings Lynn may be better setting up a mini league at amateur level to develop youngsters for the future..but that will leave a small league above it full of double down premier league reserves in teams meeting each other twice home and away to give a meaningfull list of fixtures..hardly the stuff of progress is it.

[Halifaxtiger]

NL was intended to be a development League IMO. Who is going to finance a league to sit below what is already meant to be that league.Trouble is riders are allowed to jump back and forth and make a mockery of the sport. Ask Joe to help out and ride for nothing and wait for his reply,Which is really what you are saying about your other league .

 

Actually, there are already at least two leagues below the NL that are completely amateur funded by the riders and their families themselves.

 

I really don't see what all the fuss is about here. Dudley have signed the best possible replacement within the rules for Adam Roynon that they can because they want to win the NL. Mildenhall have signed Gareth Isherwood for exactly same reason. This isn't about winning at all costs, its about attracting and retaining support and nothing does that better than on track success.

 

While the NL is and should remain a development league, it still requires paying spectators to fund itself (this applies more to the stand alone clubs for obvious reasons) and hence must be attractive to customers. Its not going to do that if it is little less than a junior league, so the inclusion of riders like Haines, Roynon, Birks, Warwick, Mallett, Heeps and Wright is both a good and necessary thing.

 

To me, its a matter of compromise between remaining viable and developing our young riders. Personally speaking, and taking into account the likes of Perry, Bates, Stoneman, Neale, Greenwood, Carr, Reade, Blacklock, Knight, Kerr, Morley, Coles, Clegg, Phillips and others, I think the NL has pretty much succeeded.

 

 

Only three or four clubs can afford to run at the levels Dudley can afford..if you can run a sensible league around that then by all means continue down the current path because i dont believe the rest can and clubs will be lost to the league.

 

 

That applies equally to the EL & PL.

 

While some promoters have in the past squawked loudly about stand alone NL clubs paying over the odds, I have no doubt that they would be extremely resistant to interference in the rates that they pay their PL riders.

[Fromafar]

Actually, there are already at least two leagues below the NL that are completely amateur funded by the riders and their families themselves.

 

I really don't see what all the fuss is about here. Dudley have signed the best possible replacement within the rules for Adam Roynon that they can because they want to win the NL. Mildenhall have signed Gareth Isherwood for exactly same reason. This isn't about winning at all costs, its about attracting and retaining support and nothing does that better than on track success.

 

While the NL is and should remain a development league, it still requires paying spectators to fund itself (this applies more to the stand alone clubs for obvious reasons) and hence must be attractive to customers. Its not going to do that if it is little less than a junior league, so the inclusion of riders like Haines, Roynon, Birks, Warwick, Mallett, Heeps and Wright is both a good and necessary thing.

 

To me, its a matter of compromise between remaining viable and developing our young riders. Personally speaking, and taking into account the likes of Perry, Bates, Stoneman, Neale, Greenwood, Carr, Reade, Blacklock, Knight, Kerr, Morley, Coles, Clegg, Phillips and others, I think the NL has pretty much succeeded.

 

 

 

That applies equally to the EL & PL.

 

While some promoters have in the past squawked loudly about stand alone NL clubs paying over the odds, I have no doubt that they would be extremely resistant to interference in the rates that they pay their PL riders.

Actually, there are already at least two leagues below the NL that are completely amateur funded by the riders and their families themselves.

 

I really don't see what all the fuss is about here. Dudley have signed the best possible replacement within the rules for Adam Roynon that they can because they want to win the NL. Mildenhall have signed Gareth Isherwood for exactly same reason. This isn't about winning at all costs, its about attracting and retaining support and nothing does that better than on track success.

 

While the NL is and should remain a development league, it still requires paying spectators to fund itself (this applies more to the stand alone clubs for obvious reasons) and hence must be attractive to customers. Its not going to do that if it is little less than a junior league, so the inclusion of riders like Haines, Roynon, Birks, Warwick, Mallett, Heeps and Wright is both a good and necessary thing.

 

To me, its a matter of compromise between remaining viable and developing our young riders. Personally speaking, and taking into account the likes of Perry, Bates, Stoneman, Neale, Greenwood, Carr, Reade, Blacklock, Knight, Kerr, Morley, Coles, Clegg, Phillips and others, I think the NL has pretty much succeeded.

 

 

 

That applies equally to the EL & PL.

 

While some promoters have in the past squawked loudly about stand alone NL clubs paying over the odds, I have no doubt that they would be extremely resistant to interference in the rates that they pay their PL riders.

They are not Leagues though are they.

[SCB]

The more laps any British rider cna get the better, and if them laps can be on track against 3 other riders then even more better. More British riders should be allowed to double.

 

Good luck to Joe, a promising career that has been struck down by a multitude of injuries, if a few meetings in the NL can help him over come that then good for him.

[wjm]

The more laps any British rider cna get the better, and if them laps can be on track against 3 other riders then even more better. More British riders should be allowed to double.

 

Good luck to Joe, a promising career that has been struck down by a multitude of injuries, if a few meetings in the NL can help him over come that then good for him.

 

I agree with this.

 

A stronger NL will ultimately help the development of younger riders rather than hinder them.

 

Racing against guys like Roynon and Haines will bring young riders on IMO, it gives them something to aim for, a speed to gauge themselves against, and the kind of guys that they can aim to be as good as.I know some will mock the suggestion that riders should aim to be as good as Roynon and Haines, but a few more young Brits reaching their level at least would be a start.

 

I genuinely don’t have an issue with the NL being used as a platform for British riders to gain racing experience and track time, I thought that’s what it was for?

 

There is a massive culture shock for some guys going from NL and winning races by the length of a straight to the PL, when you are faced with a completely differing standard of riders, racing riders of a higher standard now and then offers 1^st bend experience to NL riders.

Edited September 13, 2012 by wjm

[EC Rides Again]

And Scunthorpe who have an abundance of young talent at their finger tips at the start of the season were prepared to use Jason King

 

As for Joe Haines riding in the short term replacement for Adam Roynon, well he is rider who is or has been putting his career back on track, and the thing he needs is extra rides, and I find it more frustrating to see the riders above getting place or been given the opportunity rather than Joe taking some rides on a very short term basis.

 

 

A bit harsh, SK.

 

At the start of the year wasn't Jason King a "rider who is or has been putting his career back on track" !

 

 

Re. Dudley and Joe Haines, good luck to the Heathens, I say.

 

However, I see that, in today's Speedway Star, Adam Roynon is quoted as saying "if Dudley went Premier League I'd love to ride for them". Is this a realistic possibility for next year?

Edited September 13, 2012 by EC Rides Again

[June]

I dont think the majority of people have a problem with Joe or Dudley in particular...more the way the league is heading.

I agree its moving away from its development status..even more so with wealthy clubs setting the pace.

 

Only three or four clubs can afford to run at the levels Dudley can afford..if you can run a sensible league around that then by all means continue down the current path because i dont believe the rest can and clubs will be lost to the league.

 

I actually think the likes of Rye house,Scunthorpe,Buxton and Kings Lynn may be better setting up a mini league at amateur level to develop youngsters for the future..but that will leave a small league above it full of double down premier league reserves in teams meeting each other twice home and away to give a meaningfull list of fixtures..hardly the stuff of progress is it.

I agree with what you are saying hunch and can see the day when some clubs in N/L end up paying riders more to stay in this league. Riders will always go for the bigger points money and who would blame them! What bothers me more is all the ex prem riders in the N/L at the mo. I question " Is this the reason our brits are not getting to the top because of the up/down movement in these 2 Leagues?"

[Greg]

It seems like a lot clubs cant do right as see some fan hate when they sign say a Aussie or a Pole but now seem they not happy when they sign a brit what ever next.

[Halifaxtiger]

They are not Leagues though are they.

 

Current Anglia Junior League table below, I daresay the Midland Junior League has one too.

Wednesday, September 05, 2012 M W D L W D L F A Pts 1 Kings Lynn 8 4 0 0 4 0 0 174 86 16 2 Lakeside 10 4 0 1 3 0 2 161 136 14 3 Mildenhall 8 3 0 1 2 0 2 140 129 10 4 Peterborough 8 1 0 3 1 0 3 97 154 4 5 Ipswich 6 1 0 2 0 0 3 83 107 2 6 Rye House 6 0 0 3 0 0 3 66 109 0

[spin king]

Surely this league must get back to being a developement league. If clubs like Dudley want a team of Premier standard why don't they apply to be part of PL. ?

Because to join the Premier League they must have a track and stadium of their own.

[Fromafar]

Current Anglia Junior League table below, I daresay the Midland Junior League has one too.

Wednesday, September 05, 2012 M W D L W D L F A Pts 1 Kings Lynn 8 4 0 0 4 0 0 174 86 16 2 Lakeside 10 4 0 1 3 0 2 161 136 14 3 Mildenhall 8 3 0 1 2 0 2 140 129 10 4 Peterborough 8 1 0 3 1 0 3 97 154 4 5 Ipswich 6 1 0 2 0 0 3 83 107 2 6 Rye House 6 0 0 3 0 0 3 66 109 0

Current Anglia Junior League table below, I daresay the Midland Junior League has one too.

Wednesday, September 05, 2012 M W D L W D L F A Pts 1 Kings Lynn 8 4 0 0 4 0 0 174 86 16 2 Lakeside 10 4 0 1 3 0 2 161 136 14 3 Mildenhall 8 3 0 1 2 0 2 140 129 10 4 Peterborough 8 1 0 3 1 0 3 97 154 4 5 Ipswich 6 1 0 2 0 0 3 83 107 2 6 Rye House 6 0 0 3 0 0 3 66 109 0

These leagues you mention they may be strictly amateur ,bur like the Northern Junior League a lot of the riders are also in the NL. Liam Carr,Liam Rumsay are 2 that spring to mind.I have nothing personal against Joe or Dudley but really the sport has to get its house in order to be taken seriously

[greyhoundp]

Because to join the Premier League they must have a track and stadium of their own.

 

Ha so what do we call their OWN ?. Monmore owned by Labrokes, Swindon owned by Stadia Uk, Poole same as Swindon, Birmingham & Belle Vue owned by Risk Capital Partners, Workington owned by Rugby Club, the list is endless, so i am sure knowing Speedway this is only a technicality.

 

Unless there is a ruling which says "Sole use off" the main problem we have with Monmore Green is we are limited to 16 meetings per season, as per the agreement either with Ladbrokes or CVS.

[EC Rides Again]

Ha so what do we call their OWN ?. Monmore owned by Labrokes, Swindon owned by Stadia Uk, Poole same as Swindon, Birmingham & Belle Vue owned by Risk Capital Partners, Workington owned by Rugby Club, the list is endless, so i am sure knowing Speedway this is only a technicality.

 

Unless there is a ruling which says "Sole use off" the main problem we have with Monmore Green is we are limited to 16 meetings per season, as per the agreement either with Ladbrokes or CVS.

 

Is the quota of sixteen meetings part of a larger quota for ALL speedway meetings at Monmore ?

 

I'm sure that PL promoters would love the extra income that the large Dudley following would bring to away meetings .

Edited September 13, 2012 by EC Rides Again

[Fourentee]

However, I see that, in today's Speedway Star, Adam Roynon is quoted as saying "if Dudley went Premier League I'd love to ride for them". Is this a realistic possibility for next year?

Dudley's line is that a PL application is not being ruled out. Discussions to follow. No stronger than that ATM.