Cut-off Victims And Thieves! Projected Points

[manchesterpaul]

I've searched this forum and also with Google and whilst i see references to the extended cut-off date for the play-offs, i can't find mention of the actual date. Just thought i'd point out a possible victim of the cut-off if it were to be say September the 6th or 9th.

 

The Projected Points feature of the MiniMax league tables have had six sides pretty much clear ahead of the rest for quite a while now. Other systems such as the plus/minus are shockingly pointless and inaccurate until the final table or in the last few weeks before it. I notice that Rye House have occupied a top five or six spot for months in that system!

 

However, i digress. Edinburgh in the projected points* are well clear of Ipswich. Yet in the live table, although they have three matches in hand, are only one point ahead of Ipswich. Now if the cut-off, for example was to be 6th September when Ipswich host Edinburgh and they were to beat them they would overtake them and claim a play-off spot. Edinburgh host Ipswich the next day but if that was rained off a cut-off date a few days later would still see Ipswich gain.

 

* (an extrapolation of how the teams stand as of right now, not a prediction of final points, but remarkably accurate when it comes to finishing positions - and reflects a change of form instantly)

 

So hopefully the cut-off date is a little while away and Edinburgh can get some fixtures in. Surely no club would want to miss out on meetings that should attract good crowds.

 

I've put the matches and points first in order to make the tables more readable as there doesn't seem to be a table facilty enabled with this forum.

 

MiniMax Projected Points (currently a gap exists between 6th and 7th)

M PP

24 51 Newcastle

24 49 Scunthorpe

24 47 Somerset

24 47 Workington

24 44 Leicester

24 44 Edinburgh

24 35 Ipswich

24 31 Glasgow

24 29 Berwick

24 29 Rye House

24 25 Sheffield

24 24 Redcar

24 23 Plymouth

 

Current Standings (currently only a single points exists between 6th and 7th)

M Pts

22 42 Somerset

21 41 Scunthorpe

21 41 Leicester

18 40 Newcastle

19 35 Workington

17 30 Edinburgh

20 29 Ipswich

19 27 Glasgow

20 24 Rye House

18 23 Berwick

22 23 Sheffield

20 20 Redcar

19 17 Plymouth

 

Minimax tables with their unique formatting and features are at

 

http://speedway.manc...et/leagues.html

Edited September 2, 2012 by manchesterpaul

[Arson fire]

I've searched this forum and also with Google and whilst i see references to the extended cut-off date for the play-offs, i can't find mention of the actual date. Just thought i'd point out a possible victim of the cut-off if it were to be say September the 6th or 9th.

 

The Projected Points feature of the MiniMax league tables have had six sides pretty much clear ahead of the rest for quite a while now. Other systems such as the plus/minus are shockingly pointless and inaccurate until the final table or in the last few weeks before it. I notice that Rye House have occupied a top five or six spot for months in that system!

 

However, i digress. Edinburgh in the projected points* are well clear of Ipswich. Yet in the live table, although they have three matches in hand, are only one point ahead of Ipswich. Now if the cut-off, for example was to be 6th September when Ipswich host Edinburgh and they were to beat them they would overtake them and claim a play-off spot. Edinburgh host Ipswich the next day but if that was rained off a cut-off date a few days later would still see Ipswich gain.

 

* (an extrapolation of how the teams stand as of right now, not a prediction of final points, but remarkably accurate when it comes to finishing positions - and reflects a change of form instantly)

 

So hopefully the cut-off date is a little while away and Edinburgh can get some fixtures in. Surely no club would want to miss out on meetings that should attract good crowds.

 

I've put the matches and points first in order to make the tables more readable as there doesn't seem to be a table facilty enabled with this forum.

 

MiniMax Projected Points (currently a gap exists between 6th and 7th)

M PP

24 51 Newcastle

24 49 Scunthorpe

24 47 Somerset

24 47 Workington

24 44 Leicester

24 44 Edinburgh

24 35 Ipswich

24 31 Glasgow

24 29 Berwick

24 29 Rye House

24 25 Sheffield

24 24 Redcar

24 23 Plymouth

 

Current Standings (currently only a single points exists between 6th and 7th)

M Pts

22 42 Somerset

21 41 Scunthorpe

21 41 Leicester

18 40 Newcastle

19 35 Workington

17 30 Edinburgh

20 29 Ipswich

19 27 Glasgow

20 24 Rye House

18 23 Berwick

22 23 Sheffield

20 20 Redcar

19 17 Plymouth

 

Minimax tables with their unique formatting and features are at

 

http://speedway.manc...et/leagues.html

Nonsence post of the year... In the bag!! No contest Edited September 2, 2012 by Arson fire

[arthur cross]

Final day for Premier League meetings to count towards the play-offs was originally Sunday 16th September with a view to having a quiet week (or any cup meetings) leading up to the PL Riders Championship at Sheffield the following Sunday and then starting the play-offs in the last week of September.

It was agreed at the BSPA's mid-July management committee to extend the cut-off date to include Saturday 22nd September thus giving most clubs an extra week to fit in their home fixtures.

At that time, the two Stnday tracks, Glasgow & Newcastle, didn't mind missing out on the extension due to the PLRC as they hadn't been as rain-affected as everyone else and although the weather's hit them lately (Newcastle had only one meeting & 3 washouts in August), they're both still ok to fit their home dates in.

The big problem is that everyone's scramble to squeeze in their league fixtures means none of the League Cup or Knockout Cup semis have been raced yet and with only 5 teams filling the 8 spaces left in those competitions (Somerset v Newcastle, Workington v Ipswich in the League Cup & Newc-Workgtn, Ipsw-Edinburgh in KO Cup) any rain-offs in those semis are going to be tough to reschedule.

 

[EC Rides Again]

The big problem is that everyone's scramble to squeeze in their league fixtures means none of the League Cup or Knockout Cup semis have been raced yet and with only 5 teams filling the 8 spaces left in those competitions (Somerset v Newcastle, Workington v Ipswich in the League Cup & Newc-Workgtn, Ipsw-Edinburgh in KO Cup) any rain-offs in those semis are going to be tough to reschedule.

 

One solution may be found by making the League Cup a play-off between the Group Winners, as was originally mooted at the start of the season.

[manchesterpaul]

........It was agreed at the BSPA's mid-July management committee to extend the cut-off date to include Saturday 22nd September thus giving most clubs an extra week to fit in their home fixtures.

 

......The big problem is that everyone's scramble to squeeze in their league fixtures means none of the League Cup or Knockout Cup semis have been raced yet and with only 5 teams filling the 8 spaces left in those competitions (Somerset v Newcastle, Workington v Ipswich in the League Cup & Newc-Workgtn, Ipsw-Edinburgh in KO Cup) any rain-offs in those semis are going to be tough to reschedule.

 

Thanks for the date update.

 

By the way you forgot to mention the 7-12 Trophy! http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=69293

 

Nonsence post of the year... In the bag!! No contest

 

That's a rare spelling of the word Nonsense.

 

I'll forgive seeing as you've undertaken such effort on your constructive and well thought out contribution to the thread.

Edited September 4, 2012 by manchesterpaul

[Tsunami]

Thanks for the date update.

 

By the way you forgot to mention the 7-12 Trophy! http://www.speedway-...showtopic=69293

 

 

 

That's a rare spelling of the word Nonsense.

 

I'll forgive seeing as you've undertaken such effort on your constructive and well thought out contribution to the thread.

 

Stick to your extrapolation.

[jenga]

i have trouble getting to grips with this post.

[Tsunami]

i have trouble getting to grips with this post.

 

I think so does the OP.

[seanmuffe]

Final day for Premier League meetings to count towards the play-offs was originally Sunday 16th September with a view to having a quiet week (or any cup meetings) leading up to the PL Riders Championship at Sheffield the following Sunday and then starting the play-offs in the last week of September.

It was agreed at the BSPA's mid-July management committee to extend the cut-off date to include Saturday 22nd September thus giving most clubs an extra week to fit in their home fixtures.

At that time, the two Stnday tracks, Glasgow & Newcastle, didn't mind missing out on the extension due to the PLRC as they hadn't been as rain-affected as everyone else and although the weather's hit them lately (Newcastle had only one meeting & 3 washouts in August), they're both still ok to fit their home dates in.

The big problem is that everyone's scramble to squeeze in their league fixtures means none of the League Cup or Knockout Cup semis have been raced yet and with only 5 teams filling the 8 spaces left in those competitions (Somerset v Newcastle, Workington v Ipswich in the League Cup & Newc-Workgtn, Ipsw-Edinburgh in KO Cup) any rain-offs in those semis are going to be tough to reschedule.

 

...and it could also be said we are heading for a repeat of last years second phase farce which was only caused by the appalling rain of last season(so some said) well yes the wells are full!! Also looking good for some quick fixture releases after the 23rd. If Monarchs finish 6th Ipswich 7th Plymouth bottom the fun begins.

 

Play offs will include 3 friday 1 saturday 1 sunday and Leicester who now dont know whether they are saturday or sunday but no surprise there!!

 

The 7-12 or YS or whatever its called has 3 thursday 2 saturday 1 sunday bspa will be supporting Ippo for 6th and Plymouth to remove a thursday track.!!!!!!!!!

A few long haul trips in October in prospect lets hope there is a Indian Summer.

 

With a 4 day league now running which ever permutation you take up its a headache as some tracks struggle to ride on a alternate night not to mention it not being as financially rewarding. Newports demise caused fixture blanks from the start especially as the southern League Cup tracks lost 2 fixtures so the situation could have been worse.

 

12 league, KOC 1 ,LC 4/5 so 17 or 18 minimum number of fixtures in a 30 week season easy fit another 3 or 4 matches.

Not many of the tracks can use the stadia when and if Scunny Rye the obvious exceptions, Bank holiday weekend aided by the GP/PL Pairs only 1 fixture scheduled in our 4 day league though 3 had a go on the Monday a time for good crowds shafted again. It is also now not that unsual for a few tactical postponements and plus the now having to avoid live footy, cant ride because of the Olympics the X whatever. You then add on the World U21 running a GP system the conversion rate bringing in riders who are too good and expensive and although PL takes priority its inconceivable that doesnt impact on the arranging of fixtures. We are going the way of the Elite making it hard to run--- the comments are made for debate i am sure those who are more eloquent in their prose can expand and improve and add to my points. While those who disagree can blow it to smithereens.

[crescent girl]

...and it could also be said we are heading for a repeat of last years second phase farce which was only caused by the appalling rain of last season(so some said) well yes the wells are full!! Also looking good for some quick fixture releases after the 23rd. If Monarchs finish 6th Ipswich 7th Plymouth bottom the fun begins.

 

Play offs will include 3 friday 1 saturday 1 sunday and Leicester who now dont know whether they are saturday or sunday but no surprise there!!

 

The 7-12 or YS or whatever its called has 3 thursday 2 saturday 1 sunday bspa will be supporting Ippo for 6th and Plymouth to remove a thursday track.!!!!!!!!!

A few long haul trips in October in prospect lets hope there is a Indian Summer.

 

With a 4 day league now running which ever permutation you take up its a headache as some tracks struggle to ride on a alternate night not to mention it not being as financially rewarding. Newports demise caused fixture blanks from the start especially as the southern League Cup tracks lost 2 fixtures so the situation could have been worse.

 

12 league, KOC 1 ,LC 4/5 so 17 or 18 minimum number of fixtures in a 30 week season easy fit another 3 or 4 matches.

Not many of the tracks can use the stadia when and if Scunny Rye the obvious exceptions, Bank holiday weekend aided by the GP/PL Pairs only 1 fixture scheduled in our 4 day league though 3 had a go on the Monday a time for good crowds shafted again. It is also now not that unsual for a few tactical postponements and plus the now having to avoid live footy, cant ride because of the Olympics the X whatever. You then add on the World U21 running a GP system the conversion rate bringing in riders who are too good and expensive and although PL takes priority its inconceivable that doesnt impact on the arranging of fixtures. We are going the way of the Elite making it hard to run--- the comments are made for debate i am sure those who are more eloquent in their prose can expand and improve and add to my points. While those who disagree can blow it to smithereens.

 

Very good summary of the situation. Well set down.

 

PL is in a better place this year than last, as the end-of-term competitions (play-offs, Young Shield) at least have targets set up to aim for over the final fixtures.

 

Weather (mainly) and the compression of fixtures into the four-day schedule to which you refer haven't made it a perfect scenario just yet.

 

Where the PL is still suffering is from losing two clubs when Birmingham and King's Lynn were force-fed into the EL to save the situation caused by Coventry and Peterborough's toys-out-the-pram idiocy in the winter of 2010/11.

 

Ipswich have proved that it is far from suicidal to move leagues -- let's hope, from a PL perspective, at least one EL club follows them during the coming-all-too-soon winter months.

[manchesterpaul]

......The 7-12 or YS or whatever its called has 3 thursday 2 saturday 1 sunday bspa will be supporting Ippo for 6th and Plymouth to remove a thursday track.!!!!!!!!!

 

....We are going the way of the Elite making it hard to run--- the comments are made for debate i am sure those who are more eloquent in their prose can expand and improve and add to my points. While those who disagree can blow it to smithereens.

 

Always nice to see someone putting an effort into a post for debate. Matters not a jot whether people agree or disagree. There's nothing more childish and damning in displaying a lack of intellect when inane non-constructive replies are added to a thread.

 

Incidentally, the '7-12' is obviously a mickey take, as i'm sure you know yourself. Regards reference to it as the 'Young Shield' if it ends up being called that they clearly failed to come up with a title. In all the communications and press releases pre-season there was no mention of it being the 'Young Shield'. Maybe they've been holding out for a sponsor and alas now realize the 'Barclay's 7-12 Trophy' or 'Budweiser 7-12 Cup' ain't going to happen lol.

 

PL is in a better place this year than last, as the end-of-term competitions (play-offs, Young Shield) at least have targets set up to aim for over the final fixtures.

 

Agree totally.

Edited September 5, 2012 by manchesterpaul

[seanmuffe]

Very good summary of the situation. Well set down.

 

PL is in a better place this year than last, as the end-of-term competitions (play-offs, Young Shield) at least have targets set up to aim for over the final fixtures.

 

Weather (mainly) and the compression of fixtures into the four-day schedule to which you refer haven't made it a perfect scenario just yet.

 

Where the PL is still suffering is from losing two clubs when Birmingham and King's Lynn were force-fed into the EL to save the situation caused by Coventry and Peterborough's toys-out-the-pram idiocy in the winter of 2010/11.

 

Ipswich have proved that it is far from suicidal to move leagues -- let's hope, from a PL perspective, at least one EL club follows them during the coming-all-too-soon winter months.

 

Thanks

 

1 --agree last year was beyond description and even play offs look good in comparison though the intention was not to debate that in depth.

 

2 --wont improve unless new clubs come in to the league....lets hope.

 

3-- Newport's demise was more serious as Plymouth and Ipswich replaced the other two....though with hindsight another thursday and friday track replacing two wednesdays which is where i came in!!! All the Elite was responsible for that mess and none come out with credit why anyone would want to join possibly gifts from the Sky above!!

 

4--Although i dont want to upset Aljack or his mate Chris Louis the preponderance of poles had made our elite league membership untenable so the decision i didnt feel was that risky as you pointed out.......there must be a good chance some other track feels that way.

[crescent girl]

Thanks

 

1 --agree last year was beyond description and even play offs look good in comparison though the intention was not to debate that in depth.

 

2 --wont improve unless new clubs come in to the league....lets hope.

 

3-- Newport's demise was more serious as Plymouth and Ipswich replaced the other two....though with hindsight another thursday and friday track replacing two wednesdays which is where i came in!!! All the Elite was responsible for that mess and none come out with credit why anyone would want to join possibly gifts from the Sky above!!

 

 

 

Instead of starting 2011 with sixteen teams - Ipswich, Plymouth (swapping leagues with Stoke) and Leicester arriving - the PL was cut to 14, and decimated further going into 2012 by Newport's suicide.

 

It is plain to anyone that Belle Vue would benefit from "doing an Ipswich" - if only until their much-publicised new stadium comes into being -- as even any hand-out from Sky cannot under any circumstances defray their turnstile losses and EL rider-payments.

 

The most-successful 'lower league' was the old National League of the late 'eighties, run indepedently of Rugby and able to retain the money generated by their own, always-financially-successful shared events.

 

Let us collectively sigh for a return to those simpler, happier days.

[seanmuffe]

Instead of starting 2011 with sixteen teams - Ipswich, Plymouth (swapping leagues with Stoke) and Leicester arriving - the PL was cut to 14, and decimated further going into 2012 by Newport's suicide.

 

It is plain to anyone that Belle Vue would benefit from "doing an Ipswich" - if only until their much-publicised new stadium comes into being -- as even any hand-out from Sky cannot under any circumstances defray their turnstile losses and EL rider-payments.

 

The most-successful 'lower league' was the old National League of the late 'eighties, run indepedently of Rugby and able to retain the money generated by their own, always-financially-successful shared events.

 

Let us collectively sigh for a return to those simpler, happier days.

 

 

Forgot the Leicester/Stoke ......white coats beckon!!!

Didnt realise the bit about independent of Rugby.

[manchesterpaul]

Nonsence post of the year... In the bag!! No contest

 

Surely a monthly post that has Rye House in the top five teams for most of the year, unlike the MIniMax tables, are candidates for 'nonsense posts of the year'?. I hope that that particular system catches up soon only i notice that Rye House are now finally in the actual current league table in 12th position (which also has now caught up with the MIniMax).

 

Not sure what you perceive as nonsense when the MiniMax tables year after year give a clear and true indication of how teams actually stand for a long time before the actual tables do , and a very long time - not far off the end of season - before other 'systems' do.

 

All it needs is a glance and you can see where teams stand.

Edited September 8, 2012 by manchesterpaul

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Five day forecast shows it as bright and dry in the east of England on Thursday.

Friday in the east of Scotland looks a little unsettled.

Oh dear!!

[manchesterpaul]

Five day forecast shows it as bright and dry in the east of England on Thursday.

Friday in the east of Scotland looks a little unsettled.

Oh dear!!

 

Hmmm! not sure how contructive a reply that is in response to the post below. Also what have 'forecasts' got to do with anything. I've already mentioned it's not predictive, it's a portrayal of how teams stand at that moment in time.

 

Surely a monthly post that has Rye House in the top five teams for most of the year, unlike the MIniMax tables, are candidates for 'nonsense posts of the year'?. I hope that that particular system catches up soon only i notice that Rye House are now finally in the actual current league table in 12th position (which also has now caught up with the MIniMax).

 

Not sure what you perceive as nonsense when the MiniMax tables year after year give a clear and true indication of how teams actually stand for a long time before the actual tables do, and a very long time - not far off the end of season - before other 'systems' do.

 

All it needs is a glance and you can see where teams stand.

 

In case you failed to see this post below i reproduce it as in my opinion i reckon it applies once more.

 

Always nice to see someone putting an effort into a post for debate. Matters not a jot whether people agree or disagree. There's nothing more childish and damning in displaying a lack of intellect when inane non-constructive replies are added to a thread.

Edited September 9, 2012 by manchesterpaul

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

 

 

Hmmm! not sure how contructive a reply that is in response to the post below. Also what have 'forecasts' got to do with anything. I've already mentioned it's not predictive, it's a portrayal of how teams stand at that moment in time.

 

 

 

In case you failed to see this post below i reproduce it as in my opinion i reckon it applies once more.

My post was purely in relation to the weather and the likelyhood or otherwise of this weeks fixtures taking place.

 

I think your tables are great and agree they a true reflection of a teams performances.

[manchesterpaul]

I think your tables are great and agree they a true reflection of a teams performances.

 

I think your weather forecast is great! hee hee hee. OK enough lol.

[Arson fire]

 

I've already mentioned it's not predictive,

 

Yeah, sorry your right.....it's not predictive....it's projected...what does that mean??

 

Five day forecast shows it as bright and dry in the east of England on Thursday.

Friday in the east of Scotland looks a little unsettled.

Oh dear!!

In Manchester it's dull with spells of hot air......that's projected only mind and not predicted.... Only joking Paula keep up the good work