magnificentseven Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Good post from Sandking, however, have to object to the 'same old faces associated with failure' comment. Which of these faces failed in their jobs last year? Certainly not Wells, nor Woffinden, nor Proctor. Lindgren yes (to an extent), but surely nobody would suggest we shouldn't have him back. The 3 who failed were Klindt (mainly due to injury), Aspgren and Sowka. All 3 not in the team this season. The promotion failed due to not reacting quickly enough to address the problems, although to an extent with the way the pts limit and rules were, their hands were somewhat tied. They took a gamble, it didn't pay off. Sowka for example, showed in the Kings Lynn meet he could do it if his head was in the right place. Had he performed like that all season, the picture would have been very different. He didn't.. the gamble failed. I also find it interesting that people have a perception that the signing of Skornicki is somehow unpopular. The only gripes I can see are coming from a very small group of fans who frequent the BSF and Wolfcry. Looking at a wider source, namely the Social Media sites brings about a completely different perception with importantly many fans who have STOPPED going intimating they will now be returning. I fully accept the idea and wish for new blood, but that is not a necessity for success. Having a balanced team with 7 riders who can contribute is the key. Can't argue with some of the other points, although I think the malaise is with the sport in general, not just Wolverhampton. Winning also now seems to be far more important than it ever was. I also believe that the doubling up situation does not help the sport at all. I want to see 7 riders represent my team in every meeting.. and barring injuries I want it to be the same 7. Next season could be worse than ever with the possibility of tracking teams with 4 riders and 3 guests. Edited to add: I think its imperative for this team to hit the ground running. Early struggles will completely justify all the points that Sandking, Wolfie etc have made. Early success breeds confidence and sets you up for the season. Last year we lost a number of home meetings early on and the season was pretty much done from that point. I am glad that you added the last paragraph as an after thought - it helped offset the comment you made about the small number of griping Wolves fans, the majority of whom just happen to be some of the clubs staunchest fans who follow the team home and away through thick and thin. Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowfax Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Asuming 3 of the 4 remaining spots are Tai, Ty and Ricky how about Dakota North or Taylor Poole to fill the last spot just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I am glad that you added the last paragraph as an after thought - it helped offset the comment you made about the small number of griping Wolves fans, the majority of whom just happen to be some of the clubs staunchest fans who follow the team home and away through thick and thin. Wolfie It wasn't mentioned as an attack Wolfie, far from it. I totally understand where you are coming from and as you well know have criticised the promotion in the past. Indeed on many of the pts I do agree, I'm prepared to give the team a chance though as I don't (or maybe its just blind hope) think it is as bad as is being portrayed. Edited December 19, 2012 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 First of all, let me say that we're lucky that since CVS took charge at Wolves, every October, we've always known that come the following March, Wolves would be running and in the top division. Secondly, this is not meant as a dig at Adam Skornicki or any other rider. He's always been a loyal and popular performer for Wolves and figured prominently in the Play-Off wins of 2002 and 2009. However, is it really a wise decision to keep on returning to our former riders to dig us out of a hole? After winning the 2009 Play-Offs and reaching them again in 2010, Wolves have suffered two mediocre (at best) seasons. Co-incidentally, around the same time as Dudley moved into the Green. At the recent talk-in, I asked the question "Would the management agree that they had taken their eye off the ball since Dudley moved in?" The answer was a fudge of "It's lovely to work with riders before they develop big egos." So, basically, they don't agree. The evidence is there. People voting with their feet, poor racing (when Dudley are racing the following night), laboured and outdated presentation..........The list goes on. As an away traveller, many car conversations have revolved around these issues for at least 18 months. My 3 travelling companions have at least 120 years experience of watching live speedway between them. I'm the youngster with 28. If we've all seen this coming, how on earth have our promotion been so myopic? Using the same old faces associated with failure. Like I said earlier, this is not a dig at individual riders, more a gripe with the general situation. What was needed for 2013 was new faces to get the fans excited again. A statement of intent if you like. It hasn't happened. CVS also said at the talk-in that Wolves made heavy losses last season. So, in their defence, are finances a problem for next season? Is Skornicki the cheapest option out there? If so, then all well and good, just be transparent about it. He also stated that he usually does his deals with the stadium for the following season around June time. This year, it was on the day of the talk-in. So, maybe finance is a problem. The Parry's situation is also a worry. The performance related sponsorship deal is a good idea if you have a team heading for the Play-Offs. I can't see any way we'll get there in 2013. 7th might be the best we can hope for. If that's the case, will Parry's pull the sponsorship deal? Congratulations if you managed to get this far. Must have been a slog to do to so. I just want Wolves to return to being a club worthy of challenging for honours again. Not among the also-rans. Good post Sandking.It must be difficult for the promoters,you wont hear them say it but they just don't have the cash compete to with other teams to sign the worlds best emerging riders .The worrying aspect is that Wolves had had 2 seasons of poor teams,poor racing,poor results and particularly last year poor crowds,further struggles could put a real strain on finances .I'm sure the management will put a positive spin on the team but at present I can't see the riders who are going to significantly increase their average which is usually the ingredient for challenging for honours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 CVS admitted at the talk in that tey have made mistakes. Not reacted quick enough to changes .... Stayed too loyal to riders not performing ..... however as Sandking starts his post .... they have maintained top level speedway at Monmore Green for over twenty years and have bought titles to the fans more than once. ..... They have also produced teams that were way off the pace and hopefully this time they will react sooner than later if need be in the future. While I understand where Sand King's post comes from, there is a contradiction ..... "However, is it really a wise decision to keep on returning to our former riders to dig us out of a hole" ........ "Same Old Faces bringing failure" .... Adam has been part of the old brigade that has bought success to the club and hopefully he can put his magic touch one more time. Woffinden ~ Lindgren ~ Skornicki ~ Wells ~ Proctor ~ ? ? ? ~ Thorssell ..... What about Sam Masters at reserve ? Sam would be a new face, young and improving, has experience at other tracks and a decent PL average (higher than Wells) so should have a decent choice of guests when not available. Or forgeting doubling up riders, Justin Sedgeman has a 3.69 Elite League average, scoring 107 points from 116 rides. As he is not signed up so far, would it be better to bring him in full time ? ...... or go with the Old Faces and bring in Ludvig Lindgren 3.71 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Good post Sandking.It must be difficult for the promoters,you wont hear them say it but they just don't have the cash compete to with other teams to sign the worlds best emerging riders .The worrying aspect is that Wolves had had 2 seasons of poor teams,poor racing,poor results and particularly last year poor crowds,further struggles could put a real strain on finances .I'm sure the management will put a positive spin on the team but at present I can't see the riders who are going to significantly increase their average which is usually the ingredient for challenging for honours. Again this is incorrect. You do not need to have riders significantly increase averages under a 42.5 pt limit. Birmingham made the playoffs totalling 41.84 last season. Its a different situation to 40.95 or 40.5 or whatever the low limits have been in previous situations. Even the all powerful Poole only totalled 44.14 last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TesarRacing Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wells signed up for 2013: http://www.wolverhamptonwolves.co/news.php?extend.1642 Good luck to Ricky for next season - very likeable guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wells signed up for 2013: http://www.wolverham...php?extend.1642 Good luck to Ricky for next season - very likeable guy. Are you sure they haven't acted prematurely as Wells is an asset of Coventry,are you sure you had permission,don't they want to sell him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TesarRacing Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Are you sure they haven't acted prematurely as Wells is an asset of Coventry,are you sure you had permission,don't they want to sell him! No, no, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Are you sure they haven't acted prematurely as Wells is an asset of Coventry,are you sure you had permission,don't they want to sell him! Shouldn't be a prob in this case then as we want to buy him! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Crew Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wolves are going to have the "likeability" factor next season, all decent guys.....until Mr Woffinden returns?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Wolves are going to have the "likeability" factor next season, all decent guys.....until Mr Woffinden returns?! I can see why opposing supporters think Woffy is a bit of a pain in the ar$e,but he aint done us any favours also, by keeping CVS hanging on with will he or wont he sign.Think the side would have been built a lot differently,if he had decided to give it a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I don't think there are any doubts over whether he is going to sign. Besides, he's hardly kept CVS waiting.. they had a meeting scheduled to finalise things before Woffy departed on holiday.. CVS cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Again this is incorrect. You do not need to have riders significantly increase averages under a 42.5 pt limit. Birmingham made the playoffs totalling 41.84 last season. Its a different situation to 40.95 or 40.5 or whatever the low limits have been in previous situations. Even the all powerful Poole only totalled 44.14 last season. Don't think you understood my point.Only 2 teams in the Elite league last year were"challenging for honours" Poole and Swindon,the rest were just making up the numbers !Both had a rider that significantly improved their average,Kildermand start 4.16 finish 6.82 and Miedzinski 5.57 to 8.21 which allowed Kasprasak to come into the team.If you go further back the previous 3 winners of the league also had significantly improving riders(Ward,Pawlicki and Woffinden)It proves that you need a significant improver to win the league,stiil can't see that rider in Wolves team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguest Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Don't think you understood my point.Only 2 teams in the Elite league last year were"challenging for honours" Poole and Swindon,the rest were just making up the numbers !Both had a rider that significantly improved their average,Kildermand start 4.16 finish 6.82 and Miedzinski 5.57 to 8.21 which allowed Kasprasak to come into the team.If you go further back the previous 3 winners of the league also had significantly improving riders(Ward,Pawlicki and Woffinden)It proves that you need a significant improver to win the league,stiil can't see that rider in Wolves team. not as important with a higher points limit, but Jacob should have a points improvement in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Don't think you understood my point.Only 2 teams in the Elite league last year were"challenging for honours" Poole and Swindon,the rest were just making up the numbers !Both had a rider that significantly improved their average,Kildermand start 4.16 finish 6.82 and Miedzinski 5.57 to 8.21 which allowed Kasprasak to come into the team.If you go further back the previous 3 winners of the league also had significantly improving riders(Ward,Pawlicki and Woffinden)It proves that you need a significant improver to win the league,stiil can't see that rider in Wolves team. All those years had a: A Low pts limit and b: Loopholes that were exploited With a limit of 42.5 a team simply maintaining their averages will very likely make the playoffs. If a rider or two can add 0.5 then you're in business. I agree with what you are saying, but there's a big difference with a higher limit. Edited December 20, 2012 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 The 2013 team is looking very much likea "Keep Them Happy" 1-7 rather than a winning team with crowd favouites bought in to attract some of the dwindling fans as Adam Skornicki is as popular at Monmore Green as Cameron Woodward is at Eastboune and like Cam, he adds stability to the team and is a good team man. The one thing I think Wolves really needed next season was a strong reserve but looking at the way the team has been built, it would be no suprise if Ludvig Lindgren signs up for the #6 berth rather than Kus, Masters or Jorgensen. With just over four points left for the final place I would say Ricky Kling full time is a better option than another doubling up rider. Tracking a top three of Tai, Freddie and Adam leaves very little or a strong reserve and in my opinion it would have been better with two of those starting next season in order to have a rider like Wells, Proctor, Robson or Hougaard at reserve. This close season we have seen Edward Kennett 6.25, Patrick Hougaard 4.98, Lewis Bridger 6.11, Magic Janowski 6.13, Kenni Larsen 6.57, Simon Stead 5.75, Robert Miskowiak 5.81 and Jason Doyle 6.50 all moving to pastures new and it would have been nice to have seen one or two of those sign for Wolves to add something new to the team. Instead the team has been built with the heart rather than the head with popular names lining up from 1-7 and while I like the riders set to start the season and think we are considerably stronger than last year where the team was built more on the chance of finding a superstar in a new untried rider (or two) from abroad. .... The 2013 team does look like they are going to be stronger at home and hopefully not drop as many points as the last two seasons. 14 wins at home could get you 42 points and that's nealy enough to reach the play offs. Even if we keep the two and a half years wait for an away win going, we should be capable of a few close defeats to take it to around 50 points. Tyson Burmeister, Hynek Stichauer, Pontus Aspgren, Lukasz Sowka and Jacob Thorssell have been unveiled as virtually unknown new signings in recent years and have hardly set the world alight ..... but have been very popular on the terraces. Even Ricky Wells joined on a 3.00 average and raised that to 3.75 but was still considered as a light weigt signing. Ricky has however progressed into a solid scorer and now starting on 5.79 I think he can at least match that next season and hopefully will be a full time asset soon and be at Wolves for some time. So now we now what the team will be, what riding order would benefit them the best ? ..... Teams used to have their top two riders at 1 and 5 but in my opinion it is better to have them at 1 and 3 in order to give them apearances in 8 of the first 13 heats rather than sticking them together for heat 13. With a top rider partnering a solid second string I feel you have more chances of Tai & Ty and Fred & Ricky gaining heat advantages in the 6 heats they are together while Adam riding at 5 may be a bit harder and maybe lose a few heat advantages, even if he gains three second places upo heat 13, thats still +6 points up. Adam is also more likely to be ale to help out the reserves. My preferred riding order would be ... 1 - Tai Woffinden 8.80 2 - Tyron Proctor 5.53 3 - Fredrik Lindgren 8.68 4 - Ricky Wells 5.79 5 - Adam Skornicki 6.57 6 - Kus / Kling / Lindgren 7 - Jacob Thorssell 3.00 Adam Skornicki would be my choice of captain with Fredde and Tai left to concentrate on their riding here, abrod and in the GP's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I don't think anything has been announced about Patrick Houggard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Proctor signing for Plymouth, will Wolves still use him as a double up rider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 Proctor's best away tracks are Coventry & P'boro which run on . . . . .Friday's - DOH!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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