JT Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Woffinden would have been British Champion apart from Eddies fall, what is MJJ's average in the Elite, please no first season crap he is supposed to be a WTC champion after all so it should not be a problem, and a GP champion FIVE last places last night in a field a rider of his "supposed" calibre should have waltzed thru ... FIVE ... 0-0-0-0-0 = 0pts .... not that good at all really The importance of the British Elite League pails into insignificance compared to the Swedish Elitserien and Polish Ekstraliga (both neutral grounds). Out of interest, how do the riders compare there? Let me help you... Swedish Elitserien Michael Jepsen Jensen 7.71 Tai Woffinden 6.91 Polish Ekstraliga Michael Jepsen Jensen 7.82 Tai Woffinden 7.15 Sure MJJ was woeful in yesterday's Challenge, but giving his accomplishments this season AND the fact he's better than Woffinden in the world's toughest leagues, then he surely 'deserves' a place over Woffinden every day of the week. JT. Edited September 30, 2012 by JT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieD Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 The importance of the British Elite League pails into insignificance compared to the Swedish Elitserien and Polish Ekstraliga (both neutral grounds). Out of interest, how do the riders compare there? Let me help you... Swedish Elitserien Michael Jepsen Jensen 7.71 Tai Woffinden 6.91 Polish Ekstraliga Michael Jepsen Jensen 7.82 Tai Woffinden 7.15 Sure MJJ was woeful in yesterday's Challenge, but giving his accomplishments this season AND the fact he's better than Woffinden in the world's toughest leagues, then he surely 'deserves' a place over Woffinden every day of the week. JT. So why he MJJ NOT so dominating in our "oh so weak" league ??? ..... answers on a postcard please How did Woffy get on last night ? He was injured so could not qualify otherwise he would have won it As I thought, no evidence at all. Woffinden "would have been British Champion". Not good enough - he could have still won the rerun. Anyway, that was last year's excuse; he should have still gone out and won it this year. If he can't beat Nicholls and Harris, he's got no chance against the World's Elite. I've got nothing against Tai Woffinden, but he will be humiliated in the Grand Prix next year unless he puts his head down and steps it up big time. He's not ready. Maybe in a couple of years, he will be. But let's have a British rider because we deserve one, not just because of politics. All the best Rob He IS ready, he can gate and is fast in front .... and thats half the battle on some of those gaters paradise tracks they race on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 So why he MJJ NOT so dominating in our "oh so weak" league ??? ..... answers on a postcard please Sorry I must have missed the season where Tai Woffinden 'dominated' the British Elite League... JT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Think TNT has the wilcards spot on ... as for MJJ he won on a track where he has ridden since he was 8, he holds the track record and the track conditions were more suited to him than some of the stars. Last night he showed us what he IS capable of in a much weaker field. That alone will have cost him any chance of a wildcard. That didn't Help Pavlic yesterday.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieD Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Sorry I must have missed the season where Tai Woffinden 'dominated' the British Elite League... JT. I aint touting Tai as the next Messiah am I ... just worthy of a GP place, if MJJ is so good he should be walking our weak league, after all he is a star in the much more powerful foriegn leagues so this should be easy for him Edited September 30, 2012 by DougieD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I aint touting Tai as the next Messiah am I ... just worthy of a GP place, if MJJ is so good he should be walking our weak league, after all he is a star in the much more powerful foriegn leagues so this should be easy for him But you are touting Woffinden as a more worthy option than MJJ for a GP place. Unfortunately from a British perspective, Elite League average aside, Jepsen Jensen beats Woffinden in every single category, as many of us have demonstrated. This won't stop the Speedway Star and SKY taking a blind eye to the facts, and lauding the decision to give a Brit another wildcard, but most of us can see he'll only be in there because of his nationality. Here we have a rare opportunity to have arguably the best 14 riders in the world AND the likely World U21 Champion lining up for the GP's. I hope BSI don't throw this opportunity away. JT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) So why he MJJ NOT so dominating in our "oh so weak" league ??? ..... answers on a postcard please A few posts ago you said that MJJ's win at Vojens was due to track knowledge since he have been riding for Vojens for many years. My question for you then, who says that Tai's higher average is EL is the merit for including Tai in SGP, is how long have Tai been riding for Wolverhampton and how many years in the Elite League? How many meetings per season have Tai had at those tracks and how many meetings have MJJ done at Vojens per season? Regarding their Swedish averges, Tai started riding in Sweden in 2008 and MJJ started in 2010. yet MJJ have a higher average then tai, Then their correct averages for 2012 should be 1.726 for MJJ and 1,636 for Tai. That is the same as an 8,054 points per meeting average for MJJ and 7.198 for Tai. The first is average points per heat and the second is heats divided by number of meetings * average points per heat. Edited September 30, 2012 by Ghostwalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieD Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) We shall see, Woffinden WILL be in the GP next season if he chooses to do so. As a Brit I do not give a monkeys about whether a Dane, Swede, Pole etc gets in or not. If this was any other country and one of there riders were likely to be given a spot they would be getting massive support .. as they say "only in the UK" Edited September 30, 2012 by DougieD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) We shall see, Woffinden WILL be in the GP next season if he chooses to do so. As a Brit I do not give a monkeys about whether a Dane, Swede, Pole etc gets in or not. If this was any other country and one of there riders were likely to be given a spot they would be getting massive support .. as they say "only in the UK" Valid point BUT the problem is greater than a token Brit embarrassing himself in the GP's every season. The most dangerous effect of a British wildcard every season is those running British Speedway see us having a rider in the series as evidence that everything is fine at international level. They all know it isn't, and that we're only there thanks to BSI charity, but simply having someone in the series means every winter they can have the same crappy conference, alter the rules a little and totally ignore the lack of world class talent in this country. IF BSI had the balls to give the wildcards out on merit, rather than nationality, the BSPA and co may be forced into change. Again, I won't hold my breath.. JT. Edited September 30, 2012 by JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comebackkings Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I will tout Woffinden for next years GP's, only because he IS the best British option at the moment. Once we lose the single Brit it will take years to get it back, so you can take your, "it doesn't matter if there is a Brit in the GP's" and shove it. If there is not a Brit in the GP's I will not be watching the GP's. If that makes me a little Englander then so be it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Once we lose the single Brit it will take years to get it back, so you can take your, "it doesn't matter if there is a Brit in the GP's" and shove it. Surely if Woffinden was good enough, he'd be able to qualify by right next season? Then the long wait for a GP rider you hint at, won't actually be very long at all? If we think Woffinden is our best bet (and I agree he is) why not give him the British GP wildcard next season, instead of giving it to the British Champion. It may not be fair, but we're the only mugs who hand out wildcards this way and with no disrespect to Nicholls, I think we can cope without watching him score 6 or 7 next season. JT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieD Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I will tout Woffinden for next years GP's, only because he IS the best British option at the moment. Once we lose the single Brit it will take years to get it back, so you can take your, "it doesn't matter if there is a Brit in the GP's" and shove it. If there is not a Brit in the GP's I will not be watching the GP's. If that makes me a little Englander then so be it. Give it up .. abroad there are Little Danes, Little Swedes, & Little Poles ... just be proud as I am to be british and support anything and anyone who represents this country. As for the BSPA thinking everything is rosy so we do not improve internationally, do you REALLY think having no Brit will change all that enough for them to change things lol .... my speedway life revolves around Elite League racing with an occasinal visit to Leicester to watch the training league and less freqent to see the Dudley Heathens. Yes it would be nice to have a decent national team to throw my unconditional support behind, but its not the end of the world. Good Luck to Woofy in the GP next season from a Little Englander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Are you really telling me that the Brits will only attend a GP if we have a Brit to cheer to a possible semi-final?! HaHa! That being the case why wasn't Cardiff empty by the time we got to the final as there were no Brits in the last 3 races! Woffinden is no more likely to get me there than MJJ, Vaculik or Ward (not including Hampel as I find him boring - BUT he has to be in the GP's IMO). MJJ, Vaculik, Ward and Hampel for me. It's also interesting that the majority of Brits seem to want that 4, very few mentioned of Woffinden. TBH, I'd prefer Barker be there than Woffinden. As I see it, Woffinden is not all that liked by the Brits so having him in to please the Brits would be bloody stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 YOU are very good with stats SCB so I will take at face value your "majority of Brits" but presume you just mean on this forum. But how do we (you, I and the rest of the speedway fans in the UK) know what the majority of British fans actually want as far as representation in the SGP is concerned? Frankly, I don't think it has much if anything to do with bums on seats at Cardiff. I happened to agree with you that Woffinden probably wouldn't sell a shed load of tickets. But the bigger picture is British representation in the SGP and there are many who put a high value on that. Woffinden can be his own worst enemy (my advice would be shut down your twitter account and generally keep your mouth shut for a while) but he has genuine talent on a speedway bike and we (Britain) should be trying to help him develop into the rider he has the potential to be. I would offer him one more piece of advice: go and see Erik Gundersen for a week. Sharpen your skills and learn some humility and PR. And while I am in an advising mood: anyone who hasn't looked at speedwaystarXtra this week (accessed via speedwaystar.net) should take a peep and see how Gundo does it. Sunday sermon over ... the pub's open! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Not saying this is right but it couldbe argued that world speedway rode the coat-tails of British speedway for decades and now its payback time re British wildcards. Who that wildcard is doesnt matter but a Brit there should be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 In the SWC race-off in Sweden Jepsen Jensen was not beaten by one GB rider.That means not by Harris,Nicholls or the two heats that Woffi came up against him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougieD Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Are you really telling me that the Brits will only attend a GP if we have a Brit to cheer to a possible semi-final?! HaHa! That being the case why wasn't Cardiff empty by the time we got to the final as there were no Brits in the last 3 races! Woffinden is no more likely to get me there than MJJ, Vaculik or Ward (not including Hampel as I find him boring - BUT he has to be in the GP's IMO). MJJ, Vaculik, Ward and Hampel for me. It's also interesting that the majority of Brits seem to want that 4, very few mentioned of Woffinden. TBH, I'd prefer Barker be there than Woffinden. As I see it, Woffinden is not all that liked by the Brits so having him in to please the Brits would be bloody stupid. And Ben "look at me" Barker IS liked by the Brits, now I KNOW not to take you seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 More liked than Woffinden, though that says more about Woffinden than Barker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Yes Woffinden seems to have the Joe Bugner effect on a lot of people.No matter how good he will be he is never going to endear himself to people as much as someone who wear their partiotism on their sleeve and tai their flag to the mast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 IF Woffinden had a decent team to support his scores he would have won a WTC, as for the GP when he was thrown in last time he was not ready. He is now number one at his club and is a far far better rider than MJJ .... of that there is no doubt at all It was tai that struggled in world cup event 2 It was harris who proved his worth 1. Chris Harris © - 3, 3, 3, EF, 6^, 2 = 17 2. Scott Nicholls - 3, 3, 2, 2, 1 = 11 3. Tai Woffinden - 3, 1, EF, 1, 3 = 8 4. Daniel King - 1, 1, 3, X = 5 If scores had been bit higher for some riders then we would have made final. If a british rider is needed in GP then Harris is still the best we have but dont think any rider should get a place just based on where they r from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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