iris123 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) Crump definitely would not have done the same...... in fact he is probably the last person to do something like that considering how cautious he has become since his injury When Pearson said it had become a farce we had just seen Jensen and Watt slow up on the last bend with a rider in full flow between them.... he was not talking about the Joker We all used to watch its a knockout Grachan and are aware of the dubious nature of the rule..... however it does what it is supposed to do and allows teams a way back into the meeting, riders to continue racing to the end of the meeting (!) and fans and TV interest to continue .......... I personally think it needs tweaking but ultimately it still has nothing to do with riders slowing on the last bend Some things in speedway need to take prominance over others... safety should be at the top... that in turn should mean that it was even an option for Pedersen........... not least the fact that they are supposed to be racing as per the rules yes I agree Mark Lemon's comments, although cheeky, did the situation no favours either so the Danes were right before the Aussies got 6 points on their joker? Did they mention it before? Do we think they would have mentioned it if they had been the ones using a joker? The rule is a joke and was exposed to all watching......blown out in the open now it has no credibility and you will have to make more stupid rules to keep it in place and try to give it some credibility.Exclude riders who aren't trying......ok,then they fain engine failure or miss the 2 minute warning etc so they don't go the required amount in front......run out of fuel on the last lap etc.....all a farce.the rule is stupid and so are the riders then forced into stupid actions.Why not have itin the GPs as well if it is such a great rule as a fair number of the riders have by now no chance of winning.....let them use jokers in all their rides until they are in with a chance again.... Were the Danes interviewed on tv or in the Star before and mentioned they were in favour of the rule?I don't know.All i know is when the subject came up they said it was rubbish....... Edited July 15, 2012 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Crump definitely would not have done the same...... in fact he is probably the last person to do something like that considering how cautious he has become since his injury Well I reckon he would, Pedersen didn't just shut off, he had a good look at what was behind him, had plenty of time as he'd built enough of a lead in the race, there was not much chance of a pile up there. If changes are not made to the rule then it will lead to lesser skilled riders trying to do it and there could be carnage. Either way that one moment in time spoiled the memory of a good weeks speedway, it exposed the sport for the farce it is becoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy den boy Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Fact-at the moment their is this joker rule,so you have to try and get the best out of these rules,no point in moaning,Nikki P saw the situation as it was and although he raced hard for 3 and a bit laps(think thats gone missing amonst a few on here) he was on the ball with the situation in hand and duly made the most of it,you cant blame the rider for clever thinking. I have to say knowone has mentioned the final heat when AJ clamped Crump a bit like scott Nicholls years ago when a similar thing happened to us with the Danes and the Swedes ganged up.If that was done on purpose hen that for me is 10 times worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 The rule is a joke and was exposed to all watching......blown out in the open now it has no credibility and you will have to make more stupid rules to keep it in place and try to give it some credibility.Exclude riders who aren't trying......ok,then they fain engine failure or miss the 2 minute warning etc so they don't go the required amount in front......run out of fuel on the last lap etc.....all a farce.the rule is stupid and so are the riders then forced into stupid actions.Why not have itin the GPs as well if it is such a great rule as a fair number of the riders have by now no chance of winning.....let them use jokers in all their rides until they are in with a chance again.... Were the Danes interviewed on tv or in the Star before and mentioned they were in favour of the rule?I don't know.All i know is when the subject came up they said it was rubbish....... yes I agree about things such as a 2min exclusion.... that is a way for teams to pervert the joker rules and get away with it. running out of fuel... can be checked engine failure.......... can be checked all that was exposed to me is that some riders are willing to put themselves and others in danger......... maybe the rule makers never expected that to be a problem...... don't blame it on the rules.... blame it on those riders who are willing to do that............like I said it shouldnt have been an option............. needless to say it was no suprise Nicki was the first as he proves time and time again he has no regard for anyones safety when it came up? it came up because they brought it up... why did they (Nicki again) bring it up? because the Aussies had just posted 6 points and were back in it....... everyone knew the rules before the meeting started and to start moaning about it at that point was weak......... maybe you are right and there is no getting past something like the 2min exclusion .... what a shame the 2012 final was won with zero class..... and riders are possibly responsible for changing rules in this manner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydog Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I don't think he was. It's the rule that's the farce. sky have constantly gone into a state of frenzied excitement at the prospect of Jokers and double-points ride while fans around the country cringe at the very thought of them. It was funny to hear Nigel getting indignant about what was happening. Seriously. Double points just for being behind in a match? Think about it. It's bloody stupid!!!!! And of course team managers are going to do what's best for the team to win a match. It's just so bleedin' obvious. I agree completely. I haven't watched the final yet but have never liked the rule. Hopefully this has brought it to a head. But its one thing everyone saying they'll have to change it now, but as long as people keep paying at the gate, why would they change anything? So how about if you dont like the rule, you dont go to the World Cup next year?? with empty stadiums and losing money they'd have to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Well I reckon he would, Pedersen didn't just shut off, he had a good look at what was behind him, had plenty of time as he'd built enough of a lead in the race, there was not much chance of a pile up there. If changes are not made to the rule then it will lead to lesser skilled riders trying to do it and there could be carnage. Either way that one moment in time spoiled the memory of a good weeks speedway, it exposed the sport for the farce it is becoming. think about it... Nicki slows a quarter of the width of the track in (not by the fence as he would have been without slowing)......... Crump already has to adjust his bike's direction but he also has a decision to make - does he continue or does he slow as well? - how much room does that allow the still racing Jonsson who is trying to avoid losing 3 points on the Russians? ........................Thankfully Jonsson had his head screwed on as he shut off well before the line It had hazard written all over it.......... but even if there were comfortable margins for error in the situation... to allow it to go past without intervention rubber stamps it and creates a precedent... as we saw in the next heat......... a different race, different set of hazards, but already a decision that its acceptable someone mentioned #RICO earlier in the thread.......... but I also remember Lukas Dryml's GP homestraight nightmare...... and Greg's backstraight GP nightmare................... when bikes clip objects down the straights, moving or stationary, it is carnage Speedway is a dangerous sport but we all know the difference between the danger that the sport naturally holds and the danger that shouldnt be brought by riders agreed about the good 4 meetings overall.....and hopefully one way or another the joker rule will be dealt with for the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Imo there is nothing wrong with the joker.... other than it should only be able to be used when 8 points behind........If that had been the case this year any negative effects of it would have been avoided I dont applaud the slowing off the last bend at all...... as others have pointed out it is downright dangerous................. there is a difference between deciding on lap 3 to stop going for the win and to safely get overtaken - and stopping the bike amongst other bikes racing for the line... The joker being a rule should not mean that managers and riders can bring the sport into disrepute.......... the ref should have made 3 exclusions last night for not racing....... and for someone who was so insistent on being consistent with the starts he let everyone down by not making the decision with Nicki which then opened the door for the following heat............. Pearson was right.... it was a farce I think the right team won in the end but what a classless end to what was overall a great World Cup Oh but it is something wrong with it. All teams cannot use it. Only the teams that are at least 6p behind. Its the same with the tactical substitute. The team that is leading cannot use it. Why should the loosing team be rewarded for being 6p (or more) behind? Some say its because the want "excitement", but the joker and ts are not exiting they are a joke. let the best team win by letting all riders ride their heats. I think speedway would benefit from it. I have seen a few meetings in Sweden this year where the "weaker" team was winning until the loosing started using T-subs, in the second half of the meeting and, thanks to the ts rule, managed to turn ita round and win. Not a fair rule in anyway, without the ts the teams who lost would have won. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refereerick Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 People going on about 'racing' and the ref being able to exclude riders for not 'racing', what about the countless times a riders well out in front and shuts off going down the home straight on the last lap and cruises over the line or when a rider pulls a wheelie when coming down to the line to win, would these not then be considered to 'not be racing' and worthy of exclusion? The rule would be open to all sorts of interpretation. Also they always say a rider has to be under power but then you can push your bike home for a point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 engine failure.......... can be checked all that was exposed to me is that some riders are willing to put themselves and others in danger......... maybe the rule makers never expected that to be a problem...... don't blame it on the rules... Take your word for it,but how many times have you yourself seen a rider have trouble and then get going again?Think about it...... As for the other bit you sort of answer the question....the people who made the rule never thought it through.I thank you Like Ghostwalker say's,it is sad really that our sport isn't considered exciting enough in itself,it has to think up silly rules to try to make it feel exciting if the points are close...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy M Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Have yet to see any reference from you about Nicki Pedersen spitting, or is it "selectively" disgusting If you read my post again.you will see i was talking about chris holder spitting.not nicki p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I have to say knowone has mentioned the final heat when AJ clamped Crump a bit like scott Nicholls years ago when a similar thing happened to us with the Danes and the Swedes ganged up.If that was done on purpose hen that for me is 10 times worse. The reason nobody has mentioned it is because there was nothing wrong. In fact it is to the sports credit that AJ and Emil raced the last heat the way they did. AJ in gate two gets the jump on Crump on the inside - what do you expect him to do? Crump went for an outside run and got swamped by the other two - nothing sinister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) you shouldnt thank me for anything.... it doesnt prove any point other than there are some riders who are willing to forget a priority of safety (when it suits them) There is nothing better in speedway than when a match or competition naturally reaches a crescendo and has had passing, thrills and excitement along the way...... I used to have the 'happiness is 40-38' sew on patch! .......... but the other side of the coin are those matches and competitions which are run of the mill, processional, dour affairs............... I do not blame the rulemakers for trying to ensure that the ordinary and processional is limited in a competition like the SWC.......... where I believe they have it wrong is the amount behind that it can be used ... make it 8 points and the team using it still has to earn the overall victory........ and it changes some of the current considerations that are taking place when a team is 3-5 points behind Edited July 15, 2012 by spook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Take your word for it,but how many times have you yourself seen a rider have trouble and then get going again?Think about it...... As for the other bit you sort of answer the question....the people who made the rule never thought it through.I thank you Like Ghostwalker say's,it is sad really that our sport isn't considered exciting enough in itself,it has to think up silly rules to try to make it feel exciting if the points are close...... ...............................possibly one of the best comments so far on this Thread. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) to be honest i can see why the joker is in place as even if the racing isnt close then the scoreline can be made to be so, thus keeping the watching audience interested (speedway fans or not).. it also means a team who previously thought they may be out of contention become more motivated as the momentum swings to them with a six point win, meaning hopefully closer racing the main flaw in the cunning plan though is an obvious one that all teams dont get the chance to use it if one stays ahead of the rest putting them ridiculously at a disadvantage for leading, therefore..... why not let every team use it?! you will still keep the chasing pack interested therefore showing more commitment hopefully to the end of the meeting and the leading team will never feel cheated as they will always have the 'ace up their sleeve' (sorry wrong card, I mean joker) to play should they need to..... Edited July 15, 2012 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabbsjoe Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 what would the reaction have been like if Darcy Ward or Chris Holder had done what Nicki Pedersen had done in Heat 16 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomo1 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 what would the reaction have been like if Darcy Ward or Chris Holder had done what Nicki Pedersen had done in Heat 16 ? Why not ask Davey Watt??! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Epic 'flouncing' by most on here ! Agree with Pearson when he says great entertainment for the newcomers I think someone must have had a word in Nigel Pearson's ear last night.After the 2nd race of slowing down to concede positions he immediately labelled it " a farce" yet 5 minutes later he described it as "great entertainment for the newcomers".Not sure the guys in charge at Sky will won't the Speedway World Cup final being described as a farce but to be fair to Nigel this time he did call it right 1st time of asking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackie Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 think about it... Nicki slows a quarter of the width of the track in (not by the fence as he would have been without slowing)......... Crump already has to adjust his bike's direction but he also has a decision to make - does he continue or does he slow as well? - how much room does that allow the still racing Jonsson who is trying to avoid losing 3 points on the Russians? ........................Thankfully Jonsson had his head screwed on as he shut off well before the line It had hazard written all over it.......... but even if there were comfortable margins for error in the situation... to allow it to go past without intervention rubber stamps it and creates a precedent... as we saw in the next heat......... a different race, different set of hazards, but already a decision that its acceptable Rubbish!! I've just watched it again, Pedersen was right out by the fence when he slowed, he'd looked behind on bend 2, 3 & 4 on the last lap & knew how far back Crump was, he was never going to catch him or get close enough to have to take avoiding action. Jonsson was full on the gas until the line as well and was riding the inside of the track all race. I'm not saying using the rules to your advantage like that is right, but when the rule is nothing more than a gimick designed to reward losers, I'm glad Denmark exposed it for what it is. What was dangerous was ht17 when you had 2 riders slowing to avoid picking up points. Again, can't blame either the aussies or danes in that race, they again were trying to use the rule to benefit them, hopefully the situation won't ever happen again as last night should have been the final nail for the joker (and going off on a tangent, Tatum!! what a tool!!!) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy M Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 My question is..... would australia done exactly what nicki p did?....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 My question is..... would australia done exactly what nicki p did?....... I would sincerely hope not. No-one will ever know for sure. But once Nicki Pedersen had done the evil deed, who could blame the Riders in the following Heats for trying to do the same to improve their positions in the Meeting. I'm afraid it left a nasty taste in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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