builderbob Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 i have only skipped throgh this post, i would just like to say well done demark on both counts, 1 winning the cup.( the best team won) 2 exposing the joker to the idiots that made the rule what a farce it is. in reality though, what nicky did was a risk he through away 2 pts to stop australia possibly gaining 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Unbelievable! Â Pages and pages of whingeing about the double tactical bollox and yet we got an 'exciting' end to the meeting with 'loads of drama and tension'. Â You want speedway to be like darts or wrestling, you got it! Â Do you want fries with that? Â Ha ha. Â Just speedway racing please, not speedway shutting off off the 4th bend. Thank you very much. Oh and just a small tub of coleslaw, thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 i have only skipped throgh this post, i would just like to say well done demark on both counts, 1 winning the cup.( the best team won) 2 exposing the joker to the idiots that made the rule what a farce it is. in reality though, what nicky did was a risk he through away 2 pts to stop australia possibly gaining 3 Â Agree if there are Joker and Tac ride rules then the rules are there to be manipulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueherb777 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 No joker in polish league either get rid of it in speedway at any level be it league racing or international. Â This is a very good point. Â If Polish/Swedish League have no joker/DP,why Elite League. Â Fans on here do not want it (well most )by the comments from riders last night,they do not want it. Â GET RID OF JOKER/DOUBLE POINTS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie B Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) The Speedway World Cup for 2012 is now done and dusted, for another year. So what will we remember from this years competition. Â Will we remember it for the way Russia won and beat Poland in their our backyard in event one - no. Â Will we remember it for the way Great Britain pushed the pre-tournament favourites Australia all the way in event two - no. Â Will we remember it for the way Denmark won the race off and knocking 2011 World Champions Poland out the competition - no. Â Will we remember it for the way the two Danish under 21 riders superbly performed to help their nation in the final to win the competition - no. Â Whether you like it or not the 2012 Speedway World Cup will be remembered in years too come, only as the final where riders deliberately stop racing, so a team couldn't gain an extra points advantage, because of this stupid joker rule. A real travesty I think. Â FIM please listen to the speedway riders and supporters (who pay their entrance money) no-one wants this stupid rule, so get rid of it. As the joker rule has now become a farce and the Speedway World Cup along with it. Edited July 15, 2012 by Robbie B 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 This nonsense about the riders slowing down to lose points being somehow not in the spirit of the sport makes me laugh I may be a bit older than many here but can't believe that some of the other age challenged here don't remember a rider deliberately losing a place to either stop a team using the old tac sub rule or brining them six down to benefit from the tac sub rule. I have seen that happen many times over the last 40 odd years both with teams I was supporting and the opposition. It's as old as the hills and an 'accepted' tactic under the old tac sub rule. Hell it happens here nowadays in British speedway and I have seen a rider deliberately lose to allow or prevent the stupid double point option we have here. So why there is the fuss about Nicki doing it then everybody doing it in heat 17 frankly eludes me. Â True the joker rule needs tweaking. My first action would be to call it something else and get rid of those silly cards. Also having it in the last 4 heats is something I don't agree with under this new format. Making it between heats 1 - 16 and for 8 points down is a better idea as teams already have the 6 points down tac sub option. Rules get 'abused' by everybody and the joker is one such rule that is open to 'abuse'. What Nicki did was perfectly within the framework of speedway and the furore here is probably aimed at him as a rider more than some outrage towards the purity of the sport. If the team 'you' supported did that it would probably have been OK. Which it actually was. A sensible tactic by Nicki to prevent the opposition benefiting from a tactical option. Â The Joker has provided some tremendous excitement this year so has done it's job well. But now maybe it's time to bid it farewell and change the rule a little to make it a bit fairer to a team like Denmark who never had a chance to use one. Â ##obviously more than me have good memories about this kind of thing as the above post showed. Â I think that is a gross assumption. :angry: Â Call what Nicki Pedersen did last night Cheating, Manipulation, Gamesmanship or whatever - I would still be unhappy had it been Holder, Ward or even my favourite Rider Greg Hancock. :angry: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 The Speedway World Cup for 2012 is now done and dusted, for another year. So what will we remember from this years competition. Â Will we remember it for the way Russia won and beat Poland in their our backyard in event one - no. Â Will we remember it for the way Great Britain pushed the pre-tournament favourites Australia all the way in event two - no. Â Will we remember it for the way Denmark won the race off and knocking 2011 World Champions Poland out the competition - no. Â Will we remember it for the way the two Danish under 21 riders superbly performed to help their nation in the final to win the competition - no. Â Whether you like it or not the 2012 Speedway World Cup will be remembered in years too come, only as the final where riders deliberately stop racing, so a team couldn't gain an extra points advantage, because of this stupid joker rule. A real travesty I think. Â FIM please listen to the speedway riders and supporters (who pay their entrance money) no-one wants this stupid rule, so get rid of it. As the joker rule has now become a farce and the Speedway World Cup along with it. Â Nail on the head mate. Â After what we'd been served up this week I was full of expectation for a great final, considering the weather they'd had I was just glad that the meeting went ahead, the racing was ok, the result was in doubt well into the 2nd half of the meeting. For me that was enough, whatever happened after that was not going to spoil a great week of speedway. Wrong, my heart sank when Pedersen made that move, not blaming him either, he may well have been acting on team instructions, maybe not, it doesn't really matter, it's the fact that, within the rules, he was allowed to do it. I usually like the way that Pedersen livens up some meetings with his antics but this time it's not down to him, I firmly believe the Aussies would have done exactly the same thing if roles were reversed, or even the Brits if we were ever in a position to do so. Â Ruined the memory of the week like you say, great shame. Here's hoping it never has the chance to be repeated, won't hold my breath tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 In the context of the meeting that's exactly what they WERE doing. Â I just don't see why some people are so outraged that Denmark were trying to make sure they won the meeting. Â Ahhh - but in the context of the Race - which is what everyone is actually watching??? What about that??? Â Well I must say I feel vindicated. Â As I said earlier - I have been raving about this stupid 'Joker' Rule for years. Â Perhaps now the 'Powers that be' will listen to the Riders and Supporters about this pathetic attempt at manipulation and scrap the damned thing altogether. :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornier Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 The ozzys got what they deserved, it was a big mistake by the team manager to let the riders pick the team , Last years team manager was the same he picked his buddies and the result was the same . Long may it continue . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Imo there is nothing wrong with the joker.... other than it should only be able to be used when 8 points behind........If that had been the case this year any negative effects of it would have been avoided  I dont applaud the slowing off the last bend at all...... as others have pointed out it is downright dangerous................. there is a difference between deciding on lap 3 to stop going for the win and to safely get overtaken - and stopping the bike amongst other bikes racing for the line...  The joker being a rule should not mean that managers and riders can bring the sport into disrepute.......... the ref should have made 3 exclusions last night for not racing....... and for someone who was so insistent on being consistent with the starts he let everyone down by not making the decision with Nicki which then opened the door for the following heat............. Pearson was right.... it was a farce   I think the right team won in the end but what a classless end to what was overall a great World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Â Perhaps now the 'Powers that be' will listen to the Riders and Supporters about this pathetic attempt at manipulation and scrap the damned thing altogether. :mad: Â I agree, but for some reason these embarassing double-point fiascos keep being talked up on tv as if they are something great. Seeing girls dressed up all sexy and prading Jokers cards is, quite simply, a load of old nonsense. And well done the Danes for not only using the tactics they did but also openly ridiculing the rule in their interviews. Â Still think their tactics were prefectly legitimate though, bearing in mind the rules as they stand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I agree, but for some reason these embarassing double-point fiascos keep being talked up on tv as if they are something great. Seeing girls dressed up all sexy and prading Jokers cards is, quite simply, a load of old nonsense. And well done the Danes for not only using the tactics they did but also openly ridiculing the rule in their interviews.  Still think their tactics were prefectly legitimate though, bearing in mind the rules as they stand.  I thought the Danes attitude in the interviews was a little disgraceful actually.......... unsuprisingly it was at the point when their points lead had been all but removed........ a tough moment for them but shameless to start carping about it at that point rather than before........... or even letting their manager do it post competition  time and place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Pearson was right.... it was a farce   I don't think he was. It's the rule that's the farce. sky have constantly gone into a state of frenzied excitement at the prospect of Jokers and double-points ride while fans around the country cringe at the very thought of them. It was funny to hear Nigel getting indignant about what was happening.  Seriously. Double points just for being behind in a match? Think about it. It's bloody stupid!!!!! And of course team managers are going to do what's best for the team to win a match. It's just so bleedin' obvious. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) I agree, but for some reason these embarassing double-point fiascos keep being talked up on tv as if they are something great. Seeing girls dressed up all sexy and prading Jokers cards is, quite simply, a load of old nonsense. And well done the Danes for not only using the tactics they did but also openly ridiculing the rule in their interviews. Â Still think their tactics were prefectly legitimate though, bearing in mind the rules as they stand. Â ............................and there's the rub Grachan. Â If SKY like it - then that is all that matters to those in Authority. Â It is very much a case of them saying s*d the Riders, s*d the Supporters - we need SKY's thirty pieces of silver - so - s*d them ALL!! :mad: Edited July 15, 2012 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 ............................and there's the rub Grachan. Â If SKY like it - then that is all that matters to those in Authority. Â It is very much a case of them saying s*d the Riders, s*d the Supporters - we need SKY's thirty pieces of silver - so - s*d them ALL!! :mad: Â This is the World Cup though. I'm not so sure that Sky have much influence on that even if they do with league racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I thought the Danes attitude in the interviews was a little disgraceful actually.......... unsuprisingly it was at the point when their points lead had been all but removed........ a tough moment for them but shameless to start carping about it at that point rather than before........... or even letting their manager do it post competition  time and place The Danes were right though....and Lemon making himself out to be a right lemon laughing and saying he thought Watt had engine trouble.......it just showed the sport up to be a joke.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 This is the World Cup though. I'm not so sure that Sky have much influence on that even if they do with league racing. Â I'm sure they will have some input. He who pays the Piper calls the Tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I'm sure they will have some input. He who pays the Piper calls the Tune. But were they the only tv company showing the SWC?Why wouldn't a Polish or Swedish or Danish tv company have some say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) Come on do you reckon Crump wouldn't have done the same, or any other rider savvy enough? I don't like it but thems the rules, needs changing.  Crump definitely would not have done the same...... in fact he is probably the last person to do something like that considering how cautious he has become since his injury    I don't think he was. It's the rule that's the farce. sky have constantly gone into a state of frenzied excitement at the prospect of Jokers and double-points ride while fans around the country cringe at the very thought of them. It was funny to hear Nigel getting indignant about what was happening.  Seriously. Double points just for being behind in a match? Think about it. It's bloody stupid!!!!! And of course team managers are going to do what's best for the team to win a match. It's just so bleedin' obvious.  When Pearson said it had become a farce we had just seen Jensen and Watt slow up on the last bend with a rider in full flow between them.... he was not talking about the Joker  We all used to watch its a knockout Grachan and are aware of the dubious nature of the rule..... however it does what it is supposed to do and allows teams a way back into the meeting, riders to continue racing to the end of the meeting (!) and fans and TV interest to continue .......... I personally think it needs tweaking but ultimately it still has nothing to do with riders slowing on the last bend  Some things in speedway need to take prominance over others... safety should be at the top... that in turn should mean that it wasn't even an option for Pedersen........... not least the fact that they are supposed to be racing as per the rules   The Danes were right though....and Lemon making himself out to be a right lemon laughing and saying he thought Watt had engine trouble.......it just showed the sport up to be a joke....  yes I agree Mark Lemon's comments, although cheeky, did the situation no favours either so the Danes were right before the Aussies got 6 points on their joker? Did they mention it before? Do we think they would have mentioned it if they had been the ones using a joker? Edited July 15, 2012 by spook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Brilliant from the Danes, Brilliant from Nicki. I am so glad the JOKE rule did not decide the world title. Maybe the powers that be will realise what a JOKE it is now. Â I think the fact that Nicki did it and so many people on here support what he did shows he was right to do it. More than any other rider people love to get on Nicki;s back and the fact that it is pretty even, if not more for him shows that most fans think the Joker rule is a joke!! Â Yes its good when it works for you but even when it does, dont you just have a feeling inside that you dont deserve the points you get from it. Â Denmark were better than Aus all night and if they had lost by a point or two it would have been crazy. Â Well done the Danes!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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