Gorzow Gp Saturday 23rd June

[ImpartialOne]

Yes but it does at least mean a 'form' rider goes to Cardiff. I do kind of see where you're coming from but I do also like the fact that the Wild Card slot makes the British Final a bit more worthwhile again. Man I used to love those British Finals in 80s/90s at a packed Brandon.

I agree, it does make the British Final "a bit" more worthwhile again. In fact it's the only thing that makes a British Final at Wolverhampton worthwhile.

A lot of people have said how the British Final has lost its prestige in recent years. I wonder why? Holding it at Oxford and Wolverhampton might be a clue. In the 80s and 90s, as you say, the British Final was a big event packed out on a sunny afternoon at Coventry. It was prestigious and everything about it was right. So it's no wonder moving it to Wolvethampton on a Monday night has killed the event. Some things are better left alone and this was one of them.

Why on earth can't it be taken back to its rightful place on its rightful day?

[iris123]

Yes but it does at least mean a 'form' rider goes to Cardiff. I do kind of see where you're coming from but I do also like the fact that the Wild Card slot makes the British Final a bit more worthwhile again. Man I used to love those British Finals in 80s/90s at a packed Brandon.

Does it? I don't take an awful lot of interest in it,but thought it was one of these meetings where two top scorers are joined by two riders who get through a race-off then it is winner takes all.So you don't have to be the best rider to win it,so you don't have to be a 'form' rider to get a GP wild card.By actually picking a 'form' rider on his 'form' you get a 'form' rider rather than just a rider who goes well on a particular track on a particular night.Or maybe the British Final isn't like that at all and i am mistaken.Then i apologise in advance

Edited June 25, 2012 by iris123

[DukesGreg]

'Mechanical Failures'. Let's face it the so called turnaround in Denmark wasn't really a turnaround, he just rode his luck (which I accept is a major part of Speedway in the end). Tonight he was an embarrassment, but you just know every Speedway media outlet will be full of Harris blaming everything but himself, his machinery, his dog, his girlfriend

 

Unless he qualifies through the SGP Qualifiers (for the sake of the series, I hope he doesn't quite frankly), he and Bjerre are surely done for on this form. It's a shame for Bjerre, who if he was British would easily 'deserve' another go, but as he isn't, I can't see him being afforded the same charity, especially when Iversen, Jensen and the like are waiting in the wings.

 

The two new boys were superb tonight. If Vaculik doesn't qualify by right, he surely warrants a Wild Card on tonight's form. Brilliant.

 

JT.

 

 

I don't blame her just yet. However, I'd give her a chance at being his mechanic if I were him.

 

Who knows, he may improve and start getting points on the board.. if not, then let the slating commence.

 

 

Winning the British Final is no indication on form whatsoever.

 

Only here in the UK could we have a system where a rider gets a 15 point maximum in the British Final, then doesn't win it, therefore allowing a somebody else take their place in Cardiff. Just because of the 'race-off' system now in place. Typically British. "Well done on being the best rider by far over your races, but you're out because of one bad heat."

 

Oh dear.

[jim3751]

'Mechanical Failures'. Let's face it the so called turnaround in Denmark wasn't really a turnaround, he just rode his luck (which I accept is a major part of Speedway in the end). Tonight he was an embarrassment, but you just know every Speedway media outlet will be full of Harris blaming everything but himself, his machinery, his dog, his girlfriend...

 

The two new boys were superb tonight. If Vaculik doesn't qualify by right, he surely warrants a Wild Card on tonight's form. Brilliant.

 

JT.

 

Was Rosco in Harris' camp? Eddie Bull engines? What happened to the the Peter Johns engines?

 

As for Vaculik and Zmarzlik. Fantastic. But let's see how they go from now on. One swallow doesn't make a summer as we saw with Chris.

 

I'm now hoping for good results from Chris but not holding my breath. Maybe the WTC and the Elite is the only series that will get him going. Significantly they have team managers

[oldace]

I agree, it does make the British Final "a bit" more worthwhile again. In fact it's the only thing that makes a British Final at Wolverhampton worthwhile.

A lot of people have said how the British Final has lost its prestige in recent years. I wonder why? Holding it at Oxford and Wolverhampton might be a clue. In the 80s and 90s, as you say, the British Final was a big event packed out on a sunny afternoon at Coventry. It was prestigious and everything about it was right. So it's no wonder moving it to Wolvethampton on a Monday night has killed the event. Some things are better left alone and this was one of them.

Why on earth can't it be taken back to its rightful place on its rightful day?

 

Actually the golden era of Brandon British Finals was Wednesday evenings, Sundays only came in the mid eighties

[ImpartialOne]

 

 

Actually the golden era of Brandon British Finals was Wednesday evenings, Sundays only came in the mid eighties

But when it went to Sunday afternoons it was a proper event; the one that everyone looked forward to. That's what the British Final needs to return to to become a major event again.

[oldace]

But when it went to Sunday afternoons it was a proper event; the one that everyone looked forward to. That's what the British Final needs to return to to become a major event again.

 

Actually no, the exact opposite, the switch to Sundays was the start of the decline in the event although it really just mirrored the decline in the sport in general.

[Trees]

Yes but it does at least mean a 'form' rider goes to Cardiff. I do kind of see where you're coming from but I do also like the fact that the Wild Card slot makes the British Final a bit more worthwhile again. Man I used to love those British Finals in 80s/90s at a packed Brandon.

It's down to the fans to make the british final what it used to be, bring the pride back!!!!!! Bloody Cardiff would be a just little bonus on top of being THE BEST BRIT!!

[ImpartialOne]

 

 

Actually no, the exact opposite, the switch to Sundays was the start of the decline in the event although it really just mirrored the decline in the sport in general.

No, the start of the decline was when it moved to other tracks. It's never been the same since.

[oldace]

No, the start of the decline was when it moved to other tracks. It's never been the same since.

 

Not so unfortunately, the 20,000 crowds died away at the end of the 70s, by the late 80s the British Final was a mere shadow of the event it once was playing to only a few thousand although as you say a sight more than today.

 

I attended many Wednesday nights in the seventies but missed a few from early 80s onwards and remember going again in 1986 and thinking how much the event had declined

[ImpartialOne]

 

 

Not so unfortunately, the 20,000 crowds died away at the end of the 70s, by the late 80s the British Final was a mere shadow of the event it once was playing to only a few thousand although as you say a sight more than today.

 

I attended many Wednesday nights in the seventies but missed a few from early 80s onwards and remember going again in 1986 and thinking how much the event had declined

Well, yes the crowds dropped a lot from the 1970s but they did everywhere.

I'm talking as a spectacle the event belongs at Coventry and on a sunny (hopefully) Sunday afternoon as opposed to a Monday night at Wolverhampton or Oxford has to be a good move?

[oldace]

Well, yes the crowds dropped a lot from the 1970s but they did everywhere.

I'm talking as a spectacle the event belongs at Coventry and on a sunny (hopefully) Sunday afternoon as opposed to a Monday night at Wolverhampton or Oxford has to be a good move?

 

Indeed, it is hard to give meeting the credibility a National Final deserves in front of a few hundred people at Oxford or Wolves etc, Brandon was, and still is the best setting for the event from both stadium and geography point of view

[Dave_minall]

Going off topic from the GP somewhat but here's my view on the British final:

 

I'm still perplexed as to why this is never on a neutral track that doesn't feature in the elite league. We all know how good Sheffield's facilities have come on, and it's a huge track so naturally can hold more spectators. Even Berwick have proved how they can handle the big meetings - why pick a track where the home track advantage is so strong?

 

edit (further point): Even somewhere like Birmingham wouldn't be too bad. Good facilities and relatively new in the EL so it won't provide too much support to home riders. Plus I've heard it's a relatively neutral track anyway in regards to giving home riders the edge over visitors.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Dave_Minall

[BigFatDave]

I thought one of the reasons for the new Belle Vue Stadium (if it ever gets built) was accessibility. In my view tracks like Perry Barr and Monmore Green, which only allow spectator access to about one third of the stadium, detract from the ambience of the meeting, however good their racing surfaces, etc.

[spook]

Backing isn't the problem. Harris isn't short of good backing and as we know he throws a lot of money at it.

Riders like Kennett and Richardson have had good backing from Hagon who I'm led to believe supply all their bikes. Nicholls had good backing from Allan Ham in the GPs but it didn't do him much good.

The problem, as Loram has often said, is that riders aren't coming through from the Grasstrack scene like they used to. Loram, Screen, Doncaster, Wigg, Tatum, Cross and even lesser internationals like Schofield, Hurry, etc progressed from the grass. Harris too but times have changed and the National League isn't enough to bring in the talent required.

If only someone could persuade Hagon to back a similar scheme to Hamill's, grab the kids off the street and supply the gear, we may start to build a future for this country.

Broc Nicol looks to have the talent to make it already and we need to find those sort of prospects and help them along the way.

 

I think its more than a bit naive to think that the likes of Harris, Kennett, Nicholls & Richardson have been receiving the same level of backing as the other top guys............. if it was the case the law of averages would dictate that at least a few of our guys down the years since the golden era would have broken the mould instead of just Loramski.............. there is no better time for seeing the difference in backing than the SWC....and it has been crystal clear for many years that the Brits dont have it..... As was pointed out by Rico they werent even having their expenses covered

 

When Harris won the British GP he was on megabucks Brian Andersen machinery which was arguably the fastest in the field that year... just not consistently............ he has now gone down the Mark Loram route of Norrie Allen and making the best of the relative peanuts.... other riders have their machinery going from the start of the season...... with Bomber its a well rehearsed story of how many engines, tuners etc he has had to try during the season.... we know it isnt talent holding him back

 

The grasstrack angle? maybe... but then do all the Poles come through grasstrack? ................ it makes sense to me that it is first of all about regular opportunity which the tracks in this country just dont provide..... and then when someone has been persistent enough to break through its about the financial backing ............... also it could be argued that the Tatum, Wigg, Doncaster, Screen etc era, despite coming from grasstrack, and despite some of their success, had already fallen a notch of standard behind the generation before them

 

Like you say, there has to be some kind of movement to protect and nurture talent...... the Danes have their 80cc...... the Poles give riding time and backing........... until there is some form of movement & acceptance that more has to be done, doors and opportunities wont open

 

I don't think the machinery and financial side of things should be underestimated though...... despite their generation being under the spotlight for not being the same standard as the golden era..... Loram, Louis, Screen, Wigg all still found rostrums and titles............. I personally think since then the game has seem a shift in the importance of tuners and consequently the money needing to be raised & invested

[ImpartialOne]

Chris Harris leads a comfortable lifestyle, and he is well sponsored and invests heavily so it's not the money.

Never kid yourself that these top riders are short of backing or money to compete. They are minted.

[spook]

it is all relative

the relativity we are talking about here is the brits vs the other guys....... that is one of our youngsters vs a polish youngster ......... Harris vs Gollob .......... Nicholls vs Protasiewicz etc etc

 

we all know the relative paupers that we have become compared to riders of other nations.........unless of course you are saying that only a certain amount of money is worth having and then after that its just wasted!

 

even that said about the finances......it still doesnt explain as I pointed out earlier.....the Aussies and their success....... if any blueprint should be looked at by our boys..... it is theirs

[SCB]

The figures Harris has been quoting as having spent on bikes this season are astronomical. He must be up to 80-100k by now. Not the action of a guy who has no money!

[HenryW]

it is all relative

the relativity we are talking about here is the brits vs the other guys....... that is one of our youngsters vs a polish youngster ......... Harris vs Gollob .......... Nicholls vs Protasiewicz etc etc

But what about relative to Australians like Holder and Ward who are as fast as anybody at the moment?

Surely someone in Harris' position has far more spare cash than young Darcy!

 

When I was recently in Denmark, Chris was racing in a league meeting I attended. He and his "mechanic" were apparently completely inept and if it hadn't been for local man John Jorgensen going over and putting his bike together for him he wouldn't have had anything to race on that night!

[spook]

But what about relative to Australians like Holder and Ward who are as fast as anybody at the moment?

Surely someone in Harris' position has far more spare cash than young Darcy!

 

When I was recently in Denmark, Chris was racing in a league meeting I attended. He and his "mechanic" were apparently completely inept and if it hadn't been for local man John Jorgensen going over and putting his bike together for him he wouldn't have had anything to race on that night!

 

yep exactly what ive been saying about the Aussies Henry...... if there is a blueprint to be looked at it surely has to be the one laid down by the Aussies