stratton Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Personally, I'd be tempted to include Simmons and the Mighty Mort in the English top 10 - Jessup and Havelock must come close too. For the Swedes, possibly Bernt Persson and Jan ANdersson worthy of consideration (ahead of Sjosten and Gustaffson?) ROW - Kai Neime? The Americans - Havelock/Hamil very hard to separate, arguably Hamil a better rider at his peak, but Hancock has the better longevity and an extra world title - that would probably see him edge it for me. Shawn would have to rank higher than Kelly for me - missed out on the world title only by a run off, won countless major WC qualifying meetings, was the best poerformer for the USA in internationals over the course of the 80s, and under a GP system would have been in the mix for the title on a number of occasions. Kelly tbh never achieved anywhere near what his ability could have allowed him to. Boogaloo would have to be ahead of Preson for me (unless it was round Hyde Rd where he was awful!) - two World Pairs titles, a mainstay of the US 80s test side, a top BL performer for the first half of the 80s - arguably the best rider never to make a World Final? Also - if you have Jack Milne, you possibly need to also have Cordy in the top 10 as well? The Aussies - peopel pushing for inclusion of Airey, Boulger and Biggs - but who do you leave out to accomodate them - Sidney would have a fit if you left out Crump senior! And I really don't think Gundersen can rank ahead of Nielsen - Hans had a better record in World Finals, qualifiers, internationals, BL, BLRC , not to mention how many titles he would have won under a GP system! Races i admire you with Nielsen as we have had great debate over him.Myself i was wrong i think i watched him quite regular for a 3 year period he was a machine,Hagonshocker me mate saw more of him than me but Olsen in my own mind was better Erik was debatable i think Hans and erik remind me of Tyson and Holyfield trilogy in boxing Tyson by far the better fighter but Evander had his number?Erik did he have Han,s number? Nielsens record speaks for itself and after big disapointments came back what a mega mental capacity.to do that.Just feel Hans would not of dominated Penhall Lee maybe Shawn(what a rider) and Erik at there peak certainly all of those had great head to head records with him.Crump senior a legend him and Sanders would defo be in the ten.(Races are you saying i am bias towards Crump senior. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Come on guys -surely Charlie Monk is one of the top ten Aussies, also Jackie Biggs-the people posting on this thread are too young for me!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Come on guys -surely Charlie Monk is one of the top ten Aussies, also Jackie Biggs-the people posting on this thread are too young for me!!!!!!!!!!!!! Â Don't forget names like Peter Moore, Ron Johnson, Frank Arthur, and Lionel Van Praag... Â Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Poland 1 Gollob 2 Hampel 3 Plech 4 Jancarz 5 Woryna  We interviewed Zenon in Gdansk last weekend and he wouldn't disagree with that order of selection.  Why don't we just be done with it and post our top 20s or 50s, then everyone under the sun will get a mention!  Totally futile to compare different riders from vastly different eras spanning almost the whole history of the sport. Tracks, bikes, quality of opposition, qualification procedures, world final/GP . . . so many variants to factor in that it becomes a nonsense.  This needs breaking down into different sections: pre-war, then 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, Noughties to have any real meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Â We interviewed Zenon in Gdansk last weekend and he wouldn't disagree with that order of selection. Â Â Â Totally futile to compare different riders from vastly different eras spanning almost the whole history of the sport. Tracks, bikes, quality of opposition, qualification procedures, world final/GP . . . so many variants to factor in that it becomes a nonsense. Â This needs breaking down into different sections: pre-war, then 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, Noughties to have any real meaning. Â Tony,first you say Zenon would agree with a list of riders spanning the 60s to the Noughties,then say it is futile and we need to break it down into decades!!! I would have thought having an answer from Zenon that you posed just the same question that has been asked here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Tony,first you say Zenon would agree with a list of riders spanning the 60s to the Noughties,then say it is futile and we need to break it down into decades!!! I would have thought having an answer from Zenon that you posed just the same question that has been asked here? Â It's one thing comparing Plech to Gollob, but quite another to, for example, compare Loram to Tommy Farndon and Jack Parker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) It's one thing comparing Plech to Gollob, but quite another to, for example, compare Loram to Tommy Farndon and Jack Parker. I agree,but you stated we need to break it down to 50s,60s,70s etc.I don't think that is quite neccesary. Pre war is a different world,but i think we can safely say Ronnie Moore or even Geoff Mardon are better than anyone from NZ over the past 20 or so years Edited June 8, 2012 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 I agree,but you stated we need to break it down to 50s,60s,70s etc.I don't think that is quite neccesary. Pre war is a different world,but i think we can safely say Ronnie Moore or even Geoff Mardon are better than anyone from NZ over the past 20 or so years  Can't argue with that, and would even say that other than Briggo and Mauger, we could stretch that to 40 years...  Looking back at the list of Swedes, I think that Bengt Jansson and Torbjorn Harrysson should both be ahead of Henka, and perhaps some of the others.  Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think it is just a bit of fun and peoples opinions differ so much,who is right?nobody just opinions when judging do you go on achievements or actual riding ability.On all the posts i wouldnt disagree with any of them because people may of seen more of certain riders than others Chunky is right Banger Jansson would certainly be high up in the list of Swedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom House Kid Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) New Zealand we have mention of Jason Bunyan? With the greatest of respect he cannot be compared with the impact made by Wally Kilmister  Also a shout out for Eric Langton in the England side. ROW Ken Mckinlay or should it be team GB? USA Wilbur Lamoreaux ? Sweden Ole Nygren? Edited June 9, 2012 by Custom House Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 New Zealand we have mention of Jason Bunyan? With the greatest of respect he cannot be compared with the impact made by Wally Kilmister  With the greatest of respect, I would put many other Kiwis ahead of Bunyan, including Bruce Abernethy, Dave Gifford, Bryce Subritzky, David Bargh, and even Wayne Briggs.   Also a shout out for Eric Langton in the England side. ROW Ken Mckinlay or should it be team GB? USA Wilbur Lamoreaux ? Sweden Ole Nygren?  All great choices...  Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Max Grosskreutz. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 With the greatest of respect, I would put many other Kiwis ahead of Bunyan, including Bruce Abernethy, Dave Gifford, Bryce Subritzky, David Bargh, and even Wayne Briggs. Â Â Â Â All great choices... Â Steve Bob Andrews? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Bob Andrews? Â As an individual who only became a naturalized New Zealander toward the end of his career (after a long and successful career as an Englishman), I find it difficult to include Bob on such a list. Â Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 As an individual who only became a naturalized New Zealander toward the end of his career (after a long and successful career as an Englishman), I find it difficult to include Bob on such a list. Â Steve Correct and you are rght Andrews i would say better than all you named and Andrews nephew? looks a prospect.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 What about Scotland-1. Ken Mckinlay. 2 Tommy Miller 3. Jim McMillan 4.George Hunter 5.Bert Harkins. Other nominations?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 What about Scotland-1. Ken Mckinlay. 2 Tommy Miller 3. Jim McMillan 4.George Hunter 5.Bert Harkins. Other nominations?? Bob Beaton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Dougie and Willie Templeton, Jimmy Tannock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yeh, but I still think my five hold up-the other three mentioned never progressed as far in the World Champs as my top five. Thought about Doug T-but had to drop him to sixth in favour of Bertola. great riders all tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) We interviewed Zenon in Gdansk last weekend and he wouldn't disagree with that order of selection.  Why don't we just be done with it and post our top 20s or 50s, then everyone under the sun will get a mention!  Totally futile to compare different riders from vastly different eras spanning almost the whole history of the sport. Tracks, bikes, quality of opposition, qualification procedures, world final/GP . . . so many variants to factor in that it becomes a nonsense.  This needs breaking down into different sections: pre-war, then 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, Noughties to have any real meaning.  If we're to give top 10 Poles of the 80s, or top 10 kiwis of the noughties, we're going to be scraping the barrel a bit...  Ok, here's my first crack at top 10 riders by decade, starting at the 60s (I don't know enough about the 50s and prior ) and including a guess at the 2010s.   60s Fundin Briggs Mauger Knuttson Craven Plechanov Moore Woryna Wyglenda GNorden   70s Mauger Olsen Collins Michanek Lee Simmons Louis Autrey Plech P Crump  80s Nielsen Penhall Gundersen Lee Carter S Moran Pedersen Morton Sigalos Knudsen  90s Rikkardson Nielsen Ermolenko Jonsson Hamil Hancock Pedersen Havelock Gollob Knudsen  2000s Crump Rickardson Pedersen Gollob Adams Loram Hancock Sullivan Hampel  2010s Ward Emil Holder Hancock Gollob Hampel N Pedersen Crump Dudek Tai Woffinden (here's hoping!) Edited June 13, 2012 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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