Age Verus Authorities

[Axeman]

Today (27th May 12) a 14yr old British speedway rider achieved some incredible results whilst racing in Germany, firstly a 1st place in an U21 meeting going undefeated then in a second meeting, he gained a runner up spot with the big boys. Now some will say there are not many big boys in Germany but during the heats he beat the Brumbies rider Martin Smolinski, who returned the favour in the semi and the Final to take 1st place with Robert Lambert finishing 2nd and Tobias Kroner taking third place. Well done Robert.

We hear so much from British promoters saying they don`t know where the next generation of world beaters are coming from, well open your eyes get the heads out of the sand because they are here, but not allowed to race. As stated at the start of this I mentioned Roberts age and despite the efforts of one British promoter he is not allowed to race in this country until he is 15yrs then only in the NL until he is 16yr. He has not entered the British U16 event as he feels he would not progress there as the competition is not strong enough, and I can assure you that is with no disrespect to any of the competing riders. He should be treated slightly different to most others due to his ability on the motorbike.

That is why he has chosen to race in Germany; the Authorities there have been helpful though out, assisting him to gain a German licence which gives him more competitive racing which in turn helps him learn. His ambition is to be the best in the world (as all riders must want) but it seems to me that the authorities here will do their upmost to stop the learning curve. Next April Robert will be 15yr and would like to race here in Britain, but as he has a German licence (not passport he`s still British) some are saying he won`t be able to compete, Why? It has also been suggested that if he then did not "serve his apprentiship" in the NL he may be blocked from riding in the PL when 16yr, Why?. Perhaps he needs to live in Australia or Europe then he can come here regardless to ability.

Some of you will be saying this writer knows Robert well and that my thoughts are biased, that may well be true and yes I know him, It will be interesting to read any replies as that is the one thing the British Authorities seem unable to do along with the FIM & ACU who all seem to have had input but will not put it in writing, or will they!!!!!

Thanks for reading this and remember when one of the youngsters comes though and become World Champion, the first thing the BSPA will say is look at what we’ve done.

RIP RICCO.

[Tsunami]

Today (27th May 12) a 14yr old British speedway rider achieved some incredible results whilst racing in Germany, firstly a 1st place in an U21 meeting going undefeated then in a second meeting, he gained a runner up spot with the big boys. Now some will say there are not many big boys in Germany but during the heats he beat the Brumbies rider Martin Smolinski, who returned the favour in the semi and the Final to take 1st place with Robert Lambert finishing 2nd and Tobias Kroner taking third place. Well done Robert.

We hear so much from British promoters saying they don`t know where the next generation of world beaters are coming from, well open your eyes get the heads out of the sand because they are here, but not allowed to race. As stated at the start of this I mentioned Roberts age and despite the efforts of one British promoter he is not allowed to race in this country until he is 15yrs then only in the NL until he is 16yr. He has not entered the British U16 event as he feels he would not progress there as the competition is not strong enough, and I can assure you that is with no disrespect to any of the competing riders. He should be treated slightly different to most others due to his ability on the motorbike.

That is why he has chosen to race in Germany; the Authorities there have been helpful though out, assisting him to gain a German licence which gives him more competitive racing which in turn helps him learn. His ambition is to be the best in the world (as all riders must want) but it seems to me that the authorities here will do their upmost to stop the learning curve. Next April Robert will be 15yr and would like to race here in Britain, but as he has a German licence (not passport he`s still British) some are saying he won`t be able to compete, Why? It has also been suggested that if he then did not "serve his apprentiship" in the NL he may be blocked from riding in the PL when 16yr, Why?. Perhaps he needs to live in Australia or Europe then he can come here regardless to ability.

Some of you will be saying this writer knows Robert well and that my thoughts are biased, that may well be true and yes I know him, It will be interesting to read any replies as that is the one thing the British Authorities seem unable to do along with the FIM & ACU who all seem to have had input but will not put it in writing, or will they!!!!!

Thanks for reading this and remember when one of the youngsters comes though and become World Champion, the first thing the BSPA will say is look at what we’ve done.

RIP RICCO.

 

The 'some' are wrong. Robert wil be able to take out a British licence next year when he is 15, and then be eligible to race in the NL. I have a lot of sympathy for this situation, but I do feel you are deliberatly being negative before you know the actual situation. This tone, IMO, will not do Robert any favours. You will get adverse reactions to this line of thought.

 

I wish the lad well, and will watch his progress with great interest. I am already aware of him.

[frostylion]

Today (27th May 12) a 14yr old British speedway rider achieved some incredible results whilst racing in Germany, firstly a 1st place in an U21 meeting going undefeated then in a second meeting, he gained a runner up spot with the big boys. Now some will say there are not many big boys in Germany but during the heats he beat the Brumbies rider Martin Smolinski, who returned the favour in the semi and the Final to take 1st place with Robert Lambert finishing 2nd and Tobias Kroner taking third place. Well done Robert.

We hear so much from British promoters saying they don`t know where the next generation of world beaters are coming from, well open your eyes get the heads out of the sand because they are here, but not allowed to race. As stated at the start of this I mentioned Roberts age and despite the efforts of one British promoter he is not allowed to race in this country until he is 15yrs then only in the NL until he is 16yr. He has not entered the British U16 event as he feels he would not progress there as the competition is not strong enough, and I can assure you that is with no disrespect to any of the competing riders. He should be treated slightly different to most others due to his ability on the motorbike.

That is why he has chosen to race in Germany; the Authorities there have been helpful though out, assisting him to gain a German licence which gives him more competitive racing which in turn helps him learn. His ambition is to be the best in the world (as all riders must want) but it seems to me that the authorities here will do their upmost to stop the learning curve. Next April Robert will be 15yr and would like to race here in Britain, but as he has a German licence (not passport he`s still British) some are saying he won`t be able to compete, Why? It has also been suggested that if he then did not "serve his apprentiship" in the NL he may be blocked from riding in the PL when 16yr, Why?. Perhaps he needs to live in Australia or Europe then he can come here regardless to ability.

Some of you will be saying this writer knows Robert well and that my thoughts are biased, that may well be true and yes I know him, It will be interesting to read any replies as that is the one thing the British Authorities seem unable to do along with the FIM & ACU who all seem to have had input but will not put it in writing, or will they!!!!!

Thanks for reading this and remember when one of the youngsters comes though and become World Champion, the first thing the BSPA will say is look at what we’ve done.

RIP RICCO.

its quite simple the rules are the rules,Josh auty and tai woffinden and joe haines all had to wait and it hasnt done them any harm

[John Leslie]

I think this is a rather silly and negative thread.

 

Of course Robert will be allowed to ride in the NL once he turns 15. He will be eligible to ride in PL once he turns 16 regardless of whether he's British, British on a German licence, A German on a British licence, or whatever.

 

It's only relatively recently that 15 year olds have been allowed to race in a league, but waiting until 16 for competitive racing did Peter Craven, Peter Collins, Malcolm Simmons, Michael Lee, Chris Morton, Gary Havelock, Mark Loram, etc etc no harm.

 

Maybe the Germans are happy to let 14 year old boys race against 30 year old men, but imagine the Health & Safety outcry if there was a serious injury caused in a crash between a fully grown man and a 14 year old boy who is not yet fully physically developed.

[21st century heathen]

It's a shame that you've posted with the tone you have because if asked as an open question it would be perfectly fair and valid to ask why its the case.

 

I'll break the post down to a few bits I'd like to reply to, and hopefully answer the main point for you.

 

Today (27th May 12) a 14yr old British speedway rider achieved some incredible results whilst racing in Germany, firstly a 1st place in an U21 meeting going undefeated then in a second meeting, he gained a runner up spot with the big boys. Now some will say there are not many big boys in Germany but during the heats he beat the Brumbies rider Martin Smolinski, who returned the favour in the semi and the Final to take 1st place with Robert Lambert finishing 2nd and Tobias Kroner taking third place. Well done Robert.

 

Good to hear he's doing well. Congrats young man, keep it up.

 

We hear so much from British promoters saying they don`t know where the next generation of world beaters are coming from, well open your eyes get the heads out of the sand because they are here, but not allowed to race. As stated at the start of this I mentioned Roberts age and despite the efforts of one British promoter he is not allowed to race in this country until he is 15yrs then only in the NL until he is 16yr.

 

Here's the main point you're making. In the UK there are very strict laws on employing children or young people. He would be defined as a young person under our laws. A young person is someone 14+ but under school-leavers age. A young person who turns 16 by the end of June can leave school and employment restrictions for those no longer in full time education are very much different. Children and young people cannot work at all in certain high risk jobs (factory/construction/mines etc). Technically a local authority would have the power to issue a by-law protecting children and young people from riding speedway citing health and safety concerns, but both children and young people are allowed to compete in sport though other restrictions do apply. Here is where there's a fair question. I've quickly looked up the information in this paragraph and found the following on the CAB website.

 

 

Children and young people under school leaving age (England and Wales only)

 

There are strict limits to the hours children and young people under school leaving age (see under heading General rules on employment) are allowed to work. You must not work:-

• during school hours on any school day
  
• for more than two hours on any school day or for more than 12 hours in any week in which you are required to go to school
  
• for more than two hours on a Sunday
  
• for more than eight hours (five hours if you are under 15) on any day which is not a school day or a Sunday
  
• before 7am or after 7pm
  
• for more than 35 hours (25 if you are under the age of 15) in any week in which you are not required to go to school
  
• for more than four hours in any day without a break of one hour
  
• at any time, if during the 12 months beginning 1 January, working means that you have not had two uninterrupted weeks of holiday from school.
  

So the question is what if any other law/rule supersedes this to allow 15 and some 16 year old young people to ride the majority of the speedway meetings, which take place in the evening?

 

He has not entered the British U16 event as he feels he would not progress there as the competition is not strong enough, and I can assure you that is with no disrespect to any of the competing riders.

 

Big mistake. He should take every opportunity to race as much as possible on as wide a variety of tracks as possible. There are likely to be a number of very big differences between the UK tracks and those he's riding in mainland Europe.

 

He should be treated slightly different to most others due to his ability on the motorbike.

 

I thought you weren't trying to disrespect other riders? Terrible comment to make. As mentioned Auty, Woffinden, Haines and the like of Heeps, Stoneman and Clegg all had to wait despite being very very promising at a tender age. There are one or two others that will have to wait until next year of the year after if they continue their progress.

 

That is why he has chosen to race in Germany; the Authorities there have been helpful though out, assisting him to gain a German licence which gives him more competitive racing which in turn helps him learn. His ambition is to be the best in the world (as all riders must want) but it seems to me that the authorities here will do their upmost to stop the learning curve. Next April Robert will be 15yr and would like to race here in Britain, but as he has a German licence (not passport he`s still British) some are saying he won`t be able to compete, Why? It has also been suggested that if he then did not "serve his apprentiship" in the NL he may be blocked from riding in the PL when 16yr, Why?. Perhaps he needs to live in Australia or Europe then he can come here regardless to ability.

 

He'll need a British passport, I believe, to be able to race in the NL given the current 'no foreigners' rule for the NL. There's nothing to stop him riding PL and/or EL when the time is right no matter what his nationality.

 

RIP RICCO.

[iris123]

I understand the concern with injury.There was an incident(i think in Germany,but not 100% sure now)at a MotoX track.Think kids were training and one fell or had bike trouble on the blind side of a jump and as he was trying to get his bike going again an adult came full pelt over and landed with his bike on the youngster.The outcry from some and i guess rightly so was "What was an adult doing on the track?"

It does seem the norm though for talented youngsters to ride in adult competition.The Dryml Brothers came here because they weren't allowed to ride in CZ at the time.Kevin Wölbert and his peers all rode.Think Max Dilger was the or one of the youngest to ride in the Bundesliga at 14.It doesn't do the Danes any harm to stay on 80cc bikes until they are 16,but each country chooses their own route.80cc isn't really officially sanctioned here,so some kids choose to ride in Denmark instead.Some kids choose to come here and ride in the German system.We also have the young Russian talent Arslan Fayzullin riding regularly in the junior comps here.I imagine Roberts parents have thought long and hard about what is best for him.I certainly hope to see him sometime soon and hope his development carries on the way it is going so far.There have been many many promising kids who haven't made the grade in all sports.Speedway is no different.But we badly need a new superstar to come through.If it happens to be through the German system,super.It won't suit everyone and it isn't certain to produce any more stars,just like the Danes or Swedes have periods when they fail to produce a world beater with their 80cc system

[SCB]

I thought you weren't trying to disrespect other riders? Terrible comment to make. As mentioned Auty, Woffinden, Haines and the like of Heeps, Stoneman and Clegg all had to wait despite being very very promising at a tender age. There are one or two others that will have to wait until next year of the year after if they continue their progress.

It's not disrespecting others, it's just saying that Robert is on a different level to the others. having seen him about 2 years ago tearing it up I'm not surprised he's come on so much more now.

 

He was NL level then so he could well be PL level now and by next year could be EL level. Whast the point of him gating and riding around and finishing 100-150 metres ahead of the guy in second? He's better off riding in Germany every other weekend and racing riders than riding in a handful of U15 meetings over here and gating and romping off to massive wins.

 

I don't know the answer as I don't like the idea of letting a 14 year old race NL or PL, it's a difficult one really.

[21st century heathen]

Read again mate. I was suggesting he should be riding here primarily because of the different tracks not necessarily the level of competition. And it is disrespectful, or at the very least extremely arrogant, to suggest that an exception to British Speedway's rules and/or even the law of the land be made for one person. Look at the list of names on this thread. There are some riders there that would have been exceptional for their age but they had to wait until there were 16, for the older guys in a previous era, or 15 for the current crop. It didn't do them any harm. In fact our last three world champions didn't ride in full league speedway here until they were 16.

 

Junior speedway is for the younger riders. No mater how good he is compared to the rest he should be riding his bike whenever and wherever he can. I'm sure even the like of Hancock, Crump and Pedersen would tell you they can still learn something by riding the bike. Any claim you can't learn something just by being out there riding the bike at the age of 14 is crazy.

 

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The genuine question this thread has raised remains. It would be very nice to know where speedway stands from a legal point of view. The bit I've quoted above seems to indicate that 15 year old's should not be racing in evening meetings. Perhaps it's down to some sort of technicality with what is defined as 'work'. Are they not 'working' because they don't earn the minimum wage?

[iris123]

Not sure it is really relevant to use riders from 30 or 40 years ago as examples.Most of those guys had a decent level of competition on the grass track scene(not sure about Craven..)which just isn't there nowadays by all accounts.Times have changed

[SCB]

Theres a number of technicalities on kids "working" - for a start kids can be actors.

[21st century heathen]

Not sure it is really relevant to use riders from 30 or 40 years ago as examples.Most of those guys had a decent level of competition on the grass track scene(not sure about Craven..)which just isn't there nowadays by all accounts.Times have changed

 

Fair comment. But there are also plenty of current examples. Some mentioned here, some not.

 

Theres a number of technicalities on kids "working" - for a start kids can be actors.

 

That, along with sport, is an exception. Even with acting I believe there are very strict rules on how many hours kids/young people can work, and the health and safety risks are taken far more seriously. Taken to the extreme end of the scale - how often are twins used as babies or toddlers so that more filming can be done per day than would otherwise be possible?!

 

Below is a link to what I found and scanned through for the info I posted.

 

http://www.advicegui..._employment.htm

[iris123]

Fair comment. But there are also plenty of current examples. Some mentioned here, some not.

 

 

 

 

Yes,each to their own.They all have to try and find the system that suits their circumstances.Cameron for instance was out in WA with relatively little opposition and chose to come over to Denmark to test himself on 80cc.This year Brady Kurtz is doing the same thing.Like i said,some kids from germany choose that route too.Dominik Möser for instance i think lives there now for the past few years.But some foreign riders choose to come to Germany to better their skills.It isn't one size fits all

[builderbob]

opportunitys to ride in germany, lucky boy

[gaptooth]

Racing in the under 15's didn't didn't do Brandon Freemantle much good . 250 champ 09, 500 champ 2010 ( losing 2 heats and 1 final all year) and struggled in the NL last year. Fair play to Robert and his family, if they can afford to race in Germany then why not. They should know whether Robert is ready trace against men or not. But that said rules are rules in this country and should not be bent to suit 1 person .

[Bagpuss]

Can definitely see why he hasn't entered the U16's over here, makes more sense to race in Germany at a standard which will help him develop.

 

Will be interesting to see whether he and his family choose to ride NL next year or carry on racing on the continent. Early signs are that he could have a massive impact on the PL in 2014, and there is sure to be a scramble for his signature.

[Dekker]

The 'some' are wrong. Robert wil be able to take out a British licence next year when he is 15, and then be eligible to race in the NL. I have a lot of sympathy for this situation, but I do feel you are deliberatly being negative before you know the actual situation. This tone, IMO, will not do Robert any favours. You will get adverse reactions to this line of thought.

 

I wish the lad well, and will watch his progress with great interest. I am already aware of him.

 

newcastle sniffing around already?

[21st century heathen]

Yes,each to their own.They all have to try and find the system that suits their circumstances.Cameron for instance was out in WA with relatively little opposition and chose to come over to Denmark to test himself on 80cc.This year Brady Kurtz is doing the same thing.Like i said,some kids from germany choose that route too.Dominik Möser for instance i think lives there now for the past few years.But some foreign riders choose to come to Germany to better their skills.It isn't one size fits all

 

Absolutely. I don't think there's a definitive right or wrong way for a rider to develop. Whichever route they take some will prove to be a huge success, some a distinct failure and by far the huge majority somewhere in between the two extremes.

 

------------------------

 

I think a lot of people would be surprised by the amount of raw talent at a young age there is in British Speedway. Just look at the Poole v Wolves meeting tonight. Ashley Morris stepped in to the number 7 race jacket, went down to the home track of most people's favourites for success and scored a respectable 2+1 from 4 rides (genuine points - not gifted). Okay, it's hardly spectacular but let's be honest we all thought he wouldn't score unless it was gifted. It's just somewhere down the line that so many Brits, in fact virtually all of them, stagnate and don't go on to achieve true world class status at World Championship level.

[Dekker]

shows how poor most el reserves imo

[21st century heathen]

That's also a fair comment. Howarth, Newman and Kurtz were NL last season and have stepped up to DU roles in the PL and EL. That shouldn't really be happening unless it's because a rider is truly exceptional. Also, Roynon and Worrall are riding EL level as well as using the NL to keep the ball rolling. Throw in a few dodgy reserves and it's clear that the bottom end of most EL teams are not as strong as most of us would like to see.

 

Ash did beat Todd Kurtz who averaged a good 3+ points higher in the NL last season than Ash and has had some good rides at EL level at home, beat Kling from the back and made Masters work hard to push him back to third. It was a very respectable EL debut for him against riders that would clearly be expected to beat him a lot more often than not on a track they are far more familiar with than him.

[iris123]

Here is Roberts win against Smoli from last weekend.Commentator at the meeting,none other than Egon Müller