Bagpuss Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 And if i recall, last week on updates at KL v The Heathens in the NL, it said riders struggled early on, something about to much grip..there maybe a point coming to the fore here, are the youngsters not used to having shale on a Track ??. Lynn's dirt is fairly unique in that it has a high clay content and as a result can be very grippy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy2706 Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think you have it summed up nicely there Vog. Although I don't think the track was bad at all. The second bend had a problem that did skittle the riders some what. For me what Dean said was interesting and it is true that the modern day speedway rider seems to struggle with dirt on the track and that's what seemed to happen. They should have more set-ups like that as I always enjoyed riders riding how it was meant to be. I know some tracks cannot take dirt on as it makes it impossible to ride; I think Rye House is one of these. So even though for me the dirt caused the riders to perform like novices at times and for me added little or any entertainment value as most of the time riders seem more interested in just staying on than lining up passing moves, they should have more dirt on the tracks because when the riders get used to it again it is the best possible racing. Riders did not complain because they probably thought I should be able to ride this!!!.At present riders struggle but we should start a campaign to bring back the dirt!!. In another post somebody said that Stokes match was embarrassing?. What was embarrassing about it? The fact that Buxton only won two heats out of fifteen and needed to use tacticals twice to get the scoreline to 56-39, a seventeen point loss? Seems embarassing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 The fact that Buxton only won two heats out of fifteen and needed to use tacticals twice to get the scoreline to 56-39, a seventeen point loss? Seems embarassing to me. Sorry to disagree but I'm sure the Buxton lads tried as best as they could. Even young Neale who was tailed off in most of his heats seemed to be trying. If people can do something that I would not have the nerve to try, then I applaud from first to last. Nothing embarrassing for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 i think the biggest trouble with todays riders and track conditions is the type of engines being used today. All rev no torque ( light flywheels ultra/ short stroke / no pulling power/ all top end) tracks with blue line corners ( concrete slick) maybe think a change of gear ratio when the track gets cut up and patchy . I can remember when team managers used to advise riders of the best gear for conditions and were usualy right . can also remember changing sprockets five times during a meeting I agree Technology has taken over . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I agree Technology has taken over . at nl league level technology hasnt really taken over ,the problem is young riders spend way to much with so called tuners without really knowing or understanding their engines ,they see mr gp star has light flywheels or x cam and they pay a fortune to have them fitted and then when they go to a track with dirt like buxton they cant turn and are all over the place and then go on to blame the track , but the fact is the tracks always going to be like that so if you want to get round it then the rider needs to adjust accordingly ,i know experimenting costs money but if young riders took the time to learn about engines they could do this themselves and save a fortune ,i have said all this many times on different posts , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Im sure guy if the track was not safe Deano would be the first person to not wanna ride it also some of the Stoke if they did not feel safe they would not wanna like deano said why would Ash Birks wanna rider track that is bad or so some people say and get injuryed and miss out on meeting for Scunni and Stoke he would not simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 at nl league level technology hasnt really taken over ,the problem is young riders spend way to much with so called tuners without really knowing or understanding their engines ,they see mr gp star has light flywheels or x cam and they pay a fortune to have them fitted and then when they go to a track with dirt like buxton they cant turn and are all over the place and then go on to blame the track , but the fact is the tracks always going to be like that so if you want to get round it then the rider needs to adjust accordingly ,i know experimenting costs money but if young riders took the time to learn about engines they could do this themselves and save a fortune ,i have said all this many times on different posts , Good post Dean, most young riders struggle with dirt on the track. The problem might be that there are far to many slick tracks nowadays,but can't see anything changing that fact.IMO meeting are called of because of this fact,tracks are just skating rinks when wet.Years ago with dirt on tracks the riders just stuck on a boiler suit and an extra pair of goggles and got on with it. But these days are long gone. Good to see you can still show these young ones how a decent track should ridden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Good post Dean, most young riders struggle with dirt on the track. The problem might be that there are far to many slick tracks nowadays,but can't see anything changing that fact.IMO meeting are called of because of this fact,tracks are just skating rinks when wet.Years ago with dirt on tracks the riders just stuck on a boiler suit and an extra pair of goggles and got on with it. But these days are long gone. Good to see you can still show these young ones how a decent track should ridden. I don't think Dean was alluding to the dirt on the track he was refering to the lazy young riders who don't get into the workshop enough to deal with nuts and bolts, they would rather pay expensive tuners. My experience is different . The fact of the matter is riders aren't allowed to learn the craft of riding and trackcraft they are under too much pressure to perform soem riders will prefer small tracks others will prefer big tracks it's all down to riding style. If you get a team full of riders who prefer bigger tracks then they are going to get hammered ala KL at Dudley and Stoke at Buxton. I don't think it is anymore technical than that. But you are right about the mentality Dean some riders are beaten before the tapes go up.....Maybe teams could work on the psychological aspects of the rider rather than just the physiscal Edited May 31, 2012 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) I don't think Dean was alluding to the dirt on the track he was refering to the lazy young riders who don't get into the workshop enough to deal with nuts and bolts, they would rather pay expensive tuners. My experience is different . The fact of the matter is riders aren't allowed to learn the craft of riding and trackcraft they are under too much pressure to perform soem riders will prefer small tracks others will prefer big tracks it's all down to riding style. If you get a team full of riders who prefer bigger tracks then they are going to get hammered ala KL at Dudley and Stoke at Buxton. I don't think it is anymore technical than that. Young NL riders can only learn from being on track ,if you are under to much pressure you are not up to standard yet.Most promotions will stick with you if you are improving IMO.NL is a training league for most teams Ps I do understand what Dean was alluding too. Edited May 31, 2012 by Fromafar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 The tracks of today haven't really got anymore dirt than years ago but Buxton is one that does , some tracks are like skating rinks, wolves and rye house spring to mind but they are smooth and nice to ride, the iow and stoke are bumpy but mainly slick, mildenhall and kl are grippy because they have clay in them, they all have their good and bad days, but to make it in speedway you have to ride them all, but if you turn up with a rocket and the tracks got a couple of bumps and loads of dirt you will be racing against the bike and not the opposition and speedway bikes rarely forgive you The tracks of today haven't really got anymore dirt than years ago but Buxton is one that does , some tracks are like skating rinks, wolves and rye house spring to mind but they are smooth and nice to ride, the iow and stoke are bumpy but mainly slick, mildenhall and kl are grippy because they have clay in them, they all have their good and bad days, but to make it in speedway you have to ride them all, but if you turn up with a rocket and the tracks got a couple of bumps and loads of dirt you will be racing against the bike and not the opposition and speedway bikes rarely forgive you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Young NL riders can only learn from being on track ,if you are under to much pressure you are not up to standard yet.Most promotions will stick with you if you are improving IMO.NL is a training league for most teams Ps I do understand what Dean was alluding too. Dean often 'alludes' to the young riders not knowing how the bike works and what the bike actually does aswell as wanting the latest gear on it, he calls it bling. He does have a point although generalising I think is unfair but. .Your assessment of the NL is more prevolent now but hasn't always been the case. Mike Lee said he wanted Josh Bates to learn and enjoy this is a theme that should run throughout. The tracks of today haven't really got anymore dirt than years ago but Buxton is one that does , some tracks are like skating rinks, wolves and rye house spring to mind but they are smooth and nice to ride, the iow and stoke are bumpy but mainly slick, mildenhall and kl are grippy because they have clay in them, they all have their good and bad days, but to make it in speedway you have to ride them all, but if you turn up with a rocket and the tracks got a couple of bumps and loads of dirt you will be racing against the bike and not the opposition and speedway bikes rarely forgive you The tracks of today haven't really got anymore dirt than years ago but Buxton is one that does , some tracks are like skating rinks, wolves and rye house spring to mind but they are smooth and nice to ride, the iow and stoke are bumpy but mainly slick, mildenhall and kl are grippy because they have clay in them, they all have their good and bad days, but to make it in speedway you have to ride them all, but if you turn up with a rocket and the tracks got a couple of bumps and loads of dirt you will be racing against the bike and not the opposition and speedway bikes rarely forgive you You are right of course but how many times have you heard X should do well cos he likes the bigger tracks or not expecting much from X cos he likes small tight tracks. I speak from a laymans point of view of course, I'm no expert. Edited May 31, 2012 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy2706 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Sorry to disagree but I'm sure the Buxton lads tried as best as they could. Even young Neale who was tailed off in most of his heats seemed to be trying. If people can do something that I would not have the nerve to try, then I applaud from first to last. Nothing embarrassing for me. Oh, the old red herring about riders can do it, I can't, so I am not allowed an opinion? This may be a revelation to promoters and some slavishly adoring spectators alike, but some of us go to see a spectacle, not a whitewash. There is a good article in this weeks Star about watering, dirt and track preparation, it isn't much different from Dean's view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Oh, the old red herring about riders can do it, I can't, so I am not allowed an opinion? This may be a revelation to promoters and some slavishly adoring spectators alike, but some of us go to see a spectacle, not a whitewash. There is a good article in this weeks Star about watering, dirt and track preparation, it isn't much different from Dean's view. I disagreed with you; not stopped you having an opinion Sparky old chap. Differing opinions are what the forum is all about. We all want good speedway and discussing how that comes about is most enjoyable. How is my comment an old Red herring? A Red herring is a false lead.......I'm not leading anybody anywhere with my comments?. I can't ride a bike, so whats wrong with admiring people who can?. The result was lopsided but that happens from time to time and we ALL like to see a spectacle but how often do we get one. If I see on average 4/5 good races per meeting I have done well. Most seem to be FTG but if the chasing riders are trying to chase the riders in front down then we cannot complain. Saw the article in the Star and a good article it was too and similar like you say to Deans views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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