Nz Gp Huge Financial Cost & Losses For Promoter

[manchesterpaul]

I just noticed this in a New Zealand Speedway forum.

 

"Interesting article in the weekender of saturdays herald on the expenses of the Gp by Buckley .

I cant see him running to many shows at such a enormous loss as reported ,with out help from other sponsors ."

 

I haven't been able to garner any more details as i've only just seen the above and am heading off out for a few hours. I did do a quick Google but nothing as yet online. I did check the New Zealand Herald website which gave good coverage before and after the GP, however, it would seem the article was in the printed version's 'Weekender' and one presumes that's a magazine?

 

I know the promoter said it will take three years to pay but I'd certainly be interested to see what financial details it may provide as to the current costs of staging a GP.

[PHILIPRISING]

CANNOT really compare staging a GP in NZ as opposed to Europe. The cost of taking riders, mechanics, officials, personal, etc halfway round the world for starters. Then all the freight.

 

However, Bill Buckley, a very successful and brilliant businessman, went into this with his eyes open and certainly not to make a fortune... something he has done already.

 

And he quite naturally wanted a three year deal in order to amortise many of the major costs, and particular the materials used to produce a speedway track on top of a clay, sprint car circuit. All that material is now being stored at Western Springs, ready to be used again in 2013 and, hopefully, 2014 at least.

 

Bill is still hoping to get some financial help from the City of Auckland and is no stranger to battles with them, not least the renewal of his lease at Western Springs. And the main sponsor this time was his own company, Buckley Systems Inc, which as I have suggested on another thread might at least provide his accountant with ways to legally mitigate some of the costs.

 

Also, his chances of securing a significant sponsor have increased now that he has something tangible to show any prospective backers. Hopefully the success of the first NZ GP will manifest itself with more backing and a bigger crowd next time. He has something to build on and his own business record suggests that he is the man to do it.

 

No matter how much dosh he has stashed away Bill will obviously not want to throw money into a bottomless pit but he has indicated his confidence in at least breaking even over the three year span of his contract with BSI/IMG, especially if he wins yet another battle with the council and is allowed to start the 2013 event at 7pm local time rather than mid-afternoon.

 

In all this it should not be forgotten that Bill is a huge solo fan in general and speedway in particular. Money was never his motivation in staging a GP at his beloved Western Springs and the joy he undoubtedly enjoyed over the weekend cannot be counted in dollars. It's a balancing act, of course, but I rather suspect that some of his comments are deliberately aimed at the City who enjoyed the benefits of an estimated 1,000 visitors to Auckland and who like to see themselves as the sporting capital of NZ.

[Humphrey Appleby]

CANNOT really compare staging a GP in NZ as opposed to Europe. The cost of taking riders, mechanics, officials, personal, etc halfway round the world for starters. Then all the freight.

However, Bill Buckley, a very successful and brilliant businessman, went into this with his eyes open and certainly not to make a fortune... something he has done already.

 

Reading the article, Bill Buckley doesn't come over as being very positive about the whole thing, and with reported losses of nearly GBP 200K on one GP, it's going to be difficult to amortise that over the remaining two GPs even with sponsorship. Indeed, it seems he's already planning his exit strategy...

 

Saying that the costs of staging a GP in NZ are high is hardly any revelatory news, but it's rather academic if no-one is ultimately able to make the GPs pay.

 

In all this it should not be forgotten that Bill is a huge solo fan in general and speedway in particular. Money was never his motivation in staging a GP at his beloved Western Springs and the joy he undoubtedly enjoyed over the weekend cannot be counted in dollars.

 

Well it can be - NZD 375K according to the article. It doesn't matter how big a fan of speedway someone is, no sane businessman is going to sustain losses like that.

 

As you say though, he's a successful businessman and presumably would have worked out his likely losses in advance, unless of course the attendance was significantly below expectations...

[PHILIPRISING]

BILL, who I spent a lot of time with in NZ, certainly isn't planning an exit strategy and is fully committed to the next two years. As I stated, don't think you can fully swallow some of the figures being bandied around. He will be playing a tactical game. The crowd was certainly in line with if not better than expectations for the first attempt and all the evidence is that they will do better next time.

 

Bill is unhappy with the lack of support shown by Auckland but the Mayor was at Western Springs and will come under greater pressure to get behind the event. And, as I said, he is also trying to tie down the council to allow motorsport to continue at Western Springs which has been New Zealand's premier venue for far longer than the most recent residents, who are kicking up a fuss, have been in situ.

 

There are many similarities with the recent court case brought against Mildenhall by a couple who bought their house in the full knowledge that motorsport events were taking place on their doorstep. It reminds me of the remark allegedly made by an American tourist: "Why did they build Windsor Castle so close to London Airport!"

 

Bill's love and passion is motorsport and particularly the solos and this is a fight he will take to the wire and having such a prestigious event at WS as a SGP can only strengthen his hand.

 

 

 

No need to be negative about this, the meeting was undoubtedly a great success.

[Humphrey Appleby]

And, as I said, he is also trying to tie down the council to allow motorsport to continue at Western Springs which has been New Zealand's premier venue for far longer than the most recent residents, who are kicking up a fuss, have been in situ. There are many similarities with the recent court case brought against Mildenhall by a couple who bought their house in the full knowledge that motorsport events were taking place on their doorstep. It reminds me of the remark allegedly made by an American tourist: "Why did they build Windsor Castle so close to London Airport!"

 

Of course this is a somewhat separate thing, and on this issue I'm sure most of us on here would agree. Selfish and unreasonable people exist everywhere, although fortunately it seems it's going to be harder for them to bring frivilous cases in the UK now.

 

No need to be negative about this, the meeting was undoubtedly a great success.

 

Certainly on-track, but easy to say when one isn't taking the financial hit...

[BigFatDave]

For those who haven't seen it yet:

 

Bill Buckley was swimming in praise and drowning in debt after promoting the opening GP of the world solo speedway series at Western Springs.

Now the enigmatic Buckley - father of seven and grandfather of nine - has refocused his considerable powers towards saving Western Springs as a speedway venue.

The 69-year-old machinist-turned-entrepreneur doesn't shirk a fight and this rescue mission is a passion. Outwardly low-key but with a high-powered CV, Buckley has a love of the sport that is impossible to miss. He even drives the track grader - although once racing starts he plants himself in the stands.

Buckley talks about the GP, its future, Western Springs, his life in the sports and business fast lane ... and takes a swipe at some effects of the Rugby World Cup.

Your verdict on the GP?

We had issues with spectators in the stand unable to see the edge of the track - there's no money in the kitty for a refund so I hope people aren't too stroppy. They haven't lost as much as I've lost and still saw a good show.

We'll put a screen at each end in future and the announcers say they would have done a better job if they weren't dictated to by the music.

 

The feedback is extremely good - most riders rated it the best track they'd raced on and everybody is telling their mates they should have been there.

Your meeting highlight was?

Race 20. The lead changed three or four times. A fantastic race.

Losses?

In the high six figures ... hundreds of thousands of dollars. I subsidised the spectators at about 25 bucks a seat. Hopefully we can get bigger crowds. I've signed up for two more years but if those meetings don't pay it won't go past that. I need more from sponsors and the council.

It all works through Ateed (Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development) and I reckon we met the formula but they didn't put anything in. This was a really big deal but I feel they let me down although we may not have done the paperwork properly.

Rugby gets public money okay ...

Rugby is definitely part of the old boys' network and drained a huge amount out of Ateed at the cost of other sports. It's one-sided. All rugby has to do is ring up. These riders are bigger athletes than people realise. They don't just sit back and flick the throttle.

You raced in the 1960s at Western Springs ...

I was only ever B-grade in the solos. My highlight was winning the Auckland junior champs. I was lucky it was the first night a friend of mine Geoff Perry rode. If it had been his second night I wouldn't have beaten him. He was that good.

Sports heroes?

Not really ... although Barry Briggs and Ronnie Moore in particular. Barry Butterworth and Bob Tattersall in the cars. Bruce McLaren of course. I always appreciate good sportsmen.

Te Kauwhata is your home town ...

Yes. Auckland was the big city to come to and Western Springs was a magic place in those days. Speedway was the first night sport, the first promoted sport ... it always gets the rough end of the stick and the media doesn't support us. Yet we carry a gate on an absolutely local night when a guy from Henderson races a guy from Remuera. Other sports can't do that.

Te Kauwhata is in the news - do you know Trevor the Lotto multimillionaire?

Yes - he's from a dedicated speedway family and his father raced at the Springs. They haven't missed a meeting since I've been promoting there. They actually live in Henderson. He only moved to Te Kauwhata three years ago. They are very nice people, ordinary people, and this will be a challenge for them.

What is the future of Western Springs.

I'm worried, of course, and my promoter's contract runs out in 2014. It's been a political scapegoat. They put that much pressure on they thought I'd go away. But I've changed them [the council] around a bit - they can see it's a venue attracting good crowds, a good clean sport.

Is there any aspect of the noise complaints you sympathise with?

Not at all. They were completely unfair. They weren't happy in their own lives so they wanted to take it out on someone who they thought was. If someone outbids me for the stadium I don't mind, but that stadium is our stadium. It was given to speedway in 1929 and we've run continuously apart from when our riders were fighting in the war.

Tell us about your company Buckley Systems, by the numbers.

The design work is done by a consultant friend of mine - I was a fitter and turner who learned a bit about electrical and physics. We make the machines which implant a semiconductor in silicon chips. I can brag that at least 80 per cent of chips in the world are made on one of my machines.

We do research, flat panel, medical. All those display panels for iPhones, iPods - most of their screens are made on another machine I make. We export about 800 tonnes of machines a month. Turnover is close to $100 million. We set up in 1978.

Yachting is also on your CV ...

I made 12 keels for our America's Cup boats when they raced here. I built my own maxiboat, Maximus, and won the transatlantic in 2005 [on handicap]. I sold her and she went on to win the Sydney to Hobart.

Disasters?

Running meetings at a loss. During the last big downturn two years ago my company was bleeding an average of half a million dollars a month for 10 months. That took a bit of stomaching - a few of my advisers were saying "pack it in".

Things have turned around completely now.

By

Chris Rattue

[manchesterpaul]

Certainly from a sporting, entertainment and television aspect it was a huge and enjoyable success in my eyes. Greatest credit and praise to all involved and a superb production as usual from Sky for the tv viewers over here.

 

The figures i was interested in regarding staging were discounting the extra freight costs, i was merely wondering what sort of money is paid out to IMG/BSI whoever.

 

One thing i'm in the habit of doing before and after a GP is to scour local media, sports and residents forums, and social media. Judging by the overall feedback it would seem very likely that there will be an even larger crowd there next year. Lowest figure i've seen quoted is 15,000 but have seen quite a few stating over 20,000.

 

Incidentally, in doing such searches, nine times out of ten one finds that when TV commentators say "....(insert Nationality) really love their Speedway it's very popular here" it so is impossible to find a mention in not only National but Local media of all forms. Often not even acknowledging a GP is taking place.

 

Lol lol, i so have never heard the American tourist/Windsor Castle analogy, very funny indeed. Pretty sure not only has that actually been said in reality, but probably also by one of our own too. There are many good arguments and points made in the New Zealand media about Mildenhall type complaints that could lead to Western Springs closing down. On the bright side a lot of those in favour of the track and neutrals too are mentioning that the complainants moved into properties and neighbourhoods in full knowledge of the track existing. Indeed it's one of the reasons why they could afford to buy the homes. Although, if the track closed down the house prices would rise and they make a big profit!

 

Bill Buckley certainly wants to be stressing the amount of income brought into the area and beyond by the visitors. A fair few of who were from abroad and thereby would spend considerably more money than a local race fan. Aside from the hotel and catering income fans from overseas would be buying souveniers to do with the country and city.

 

EDIT UPDATE

 

I see a further post sneaked in whilst i was typing mine. Cheers for letting us see the article Dave very good reading.

Edited April 11, 2012 by manchesterpaul

[Humphrey Appleby]

i was merely wondering what sort of money is paid out to IMG/BSI whoever.

 

Quite a few years ago, there were rumours doing the rounds that BSI were asking for GBP 100K per GP, but in the end had to cut that to GBP 50K. However, more recently a Polish newspaper reported that Gorzow were paying GBP 300K.

 

One would guess it varies from GP-to-GP, depending on what IMG/BSI feel they can squeeze out of each host.

[The Know]

Reading the article, Bill Buckley doesn't come over as being very positive about the whole thing, and with reported losses of nearly GBP 200K on one GP, it's going to be difficult to amortise that over the remaining two GPs even with sponsorship. Indeed, it seems he's already planning his exit strategy...

 

Saying that the costs of staging a GP in NZ are high is hardly any revelatory news, but it's rather academic if no-one is ultimately able to make the GPs pay.

 

 

 

Well it can be - NZD 375K according to the article. It doesn't matter how big a fan of speedway someone is, no sane businessman is going to sustain losses like that.

 

As you say though, he's a successful businessman and presumably would have worked out his likely losses in advance, unless of course the attendance was significantly below expectations...

 

I think we all knew this gp would lose money. over the 3 years he will be very lucky to break even at best. the crowd was good but i dont think it will rise much above this over the next 2 years.

he needs sponsorship money but is there many companies or real interest for him to get any ?

dont really see why gov / tourism should alway be looked at to fund it ala poland and such.

 

bsi only promote very few gp where they know a profit is 100% guranteed. if you remove tourism and product sponsors they have few few left.

 

this has always been bsi policy but maybe its about time they had the balls to take a risk with events and not always expect others to lose money. my experance with them is they hope to get pretty much for free or at no risk to the bsi coffers

 

Quite a few years ago, there were rumours doing the rounds that BSI were asking for GBP 100K per GP, but in the end had to cut that to GBP 50K. However, more recently a Polish newspaper reported that Gorzow were paying GBP 300K. One would guess it varies from GP-to-GP, depending on what IMG/BSI feel they can squeeze out of each host.

 

yes at events where they get can get maximum cash they do and hold out for it. at others they are quite cheap. a bit like gp sponsorship, cardiff is very expensive where sweden and italy are very cheap as no one wants to sponsor umm

[kiwi]

Obviously the costs were great in holding this as a one off GP on the otherside of the world, but if BSI/IMG plan of expanding the GP to OZ and the US come to fruition then costs go down. Freighting gear on a round trip basis for one.

BSI/IMG surely look at profit over a whole series, obviously losses are taken seriously, but if it improves the overall experience and perception as a global sport, then i think sometimes you have to spend more to make money.

As for Bill Buckley his costs are working on a 3 year plan, next year his costs should halve as the track material, air fence, and infer-structure have all been purchased

[Humphrey Appleby]

Obviously the costs were great in holding this as a one off GP on the otherside of the world, but if BSI/IMG plan of expanding the GP to OZ and the US come to fruition then costs go down. Freighting gear on a round trip basis for one.

 

Errr no, freighting costs would actually likely go up. It's true that it might be possible to amortise some of the costs over Australian and NZ GPs, but it's a long way from there to the US plus all the way back to Europe, and that would add a lot of extra freighting costs.

 

BSI/IMG surely look at profit over a whole series, obviously losses are taken seriously, but if it improves the overall experience and perception as a global sport, then i think sometimes you have to spend more to make money.

 

I don't know how many times it has to be pointed out, but IMG/BSI don't promote most of the GPs and it's therefore irrelevant to them whether they're loss-making or not. If a GP promoter makes a loss and pulls out, then the circus moves on somewhere else for another promoter or club to 'do their wedge'.

 

IMG/BSI also don't give two hoots about the overall experience and perception of the sport beyond the need to extract as much money from it as possible. They're certainly not going to be intentionally subsidising GPs for the overall good of the sport, and frankly as soon as the SGP becomes unprofitable for them, you won't see them for dust

 

As for Bill Buckley his costs are working on a 3 year plan, next year his costs should halve as the track material, air fence, and infer-structure have all been purchased

 

Whatever the spin put on this, the reported losses from the recent NZ GP would suggest that unless attendances vastly increase or some sort of government subsidy can be obtained, it'll be very difficult for him to break even.

 

I actually do hope that Bill Buckley can make a success of things because I do think GPs in traditional speedway countries like NZ can help revive interest there, not to mention that only a genuine enthusiast would put money into speedway at the moment. Unfortunately though, I fear he'll end-up with a hefty bill and great deal of disillusionment about how the global sport is run...

Edited April 13, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby

[Trees]

Unfortunately though, I fear he'll end-up with a hefty bill and great deal of disillusionment about how the global sport is run...

The global sport, you mean the SGP don't ya? I'd have thought he's gone into this deal with his eyes wide open, if he ends up with a hefty bill it's down to him alone.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I'd have thought he's gone into this deal with his eyes wide open, if he ends up with a hefty bill it's down to him alone.

 

Well yes and no. If you buy (say) a McDonalds franchise, whilst it's ultimately you that carries the risks, you expect the support and backup of the global corporation, In particular, the promotional and marketing machine that gets customers into your branch.

[speedyguy]

This is all beginning to look like the aftermath of the Australian-staged GP a couple of years ago.

[Trees]

Well yes and no. If you buy (say) a McDonalds franchise, whilst it's ultimately you that carries the risks, you expect the support and backup of the global corporation, In particular, the promotional and marketing machine that gets customers into your branch.

I guess they did what they said they'd do, it must have all been in the contract? Seems to me he was prepared to take the risk on the meeting and ultimately the hit.

[salty]

Maybe they should talk to Trevor the lotto winner mentioned in the article, who has 26 million dollars to play with. Apparently, motorsport is his passion so you never know....

[kiwi]

They are going to the otherside of the world and back anyway, it's a round the world trip with a couple of stopovers, not 3 trips there and back each time.dearer than than the one NZGP and back but cheaper per GP if you divide the costs by 3

Edited April 14, 2012 by kiwi

[PHILIPRISING]

Well yes and no. If you buy (say) a McDonalds franchise, whilst it's ultimately you that carries the risks, you expect the support and backup of the global corporation, In particular, the promotional and marketing machine that gets customers into your branch.

 

WHAT makes you think he didn't get that?As for freight, overall cost might increase -though returning to Europe via LA or going via LA is quite simple - but if the bill, albeit larger, is divided by three then the unit cost will decrease.

 

This is all beginning to look like the aftermath of the Australian-staged GP a couple of years ago.

 

NOTHING like Australia for more reasons than I could even start to list.ANd whether organisers make or a profit or not is relevant to BSI/IMG. Why would they want organisers to lose money? That doesn't make any sense at all whether or not there are others waiting to step in. The more successful the series is for EVERYONE involved the better not least for BSI/IMG themselves.

[Vince]

On one hand we have a couple of newspaper reports, on the other a forum member who has discussed the exact situation with the event Promoter.

 

Why are people forming their opinion on newspaper reports coupled with a bit of guesswork?

[Starman2006]

CANNOT really compare staging a GP in NZ as opposed to Europe. The cost of taking riders, mechanics, officials, personal, etc halfway round the world for starters. Then all the freight.

 

However, Bill Buckley, a very successful and brilliant businessman, went into this with his eyes open and certainly not to make a fortune... something he has done already.

 

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Good businessman he maybe, but end of the day is it finacially viable, and even a businessman like himself would have to have grave doubts. even top businessmen will not chuck money around on something that is just not viable.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Starman2006