wandersome Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Point taken,I'm sorry Mick if you feel insulted to be lumped with Robert72 ,I don't blame you on that point......My real beef is the negativity of so many of the posts relating to Leicester speedway...Whatever happened to all supporters sticking together..... The only thing discussed is the track,matches are rarely commented on,riders are never talked about its always the bloody track..Anyway for my tuppence worth I think the last two meetings have seen better,closer racing than most of last season combined. As a side point i hadn't commented on the track debate thread for the reason most points have been made already (and as you point out, some by the same person constantly!) and certainly mine has (in the leicester 2012 thread). However, If i go to a meeting that's crap due to the track i still think the meeting thread is the place to make the post. As i've been drawn into this thread here are my thoughts again (which i was told was absolutely spot on by two seperate people who i think know about tracks, one of which is an out of work track curator who knows the Leicester track quite well).. which is not to say it isn't complete tosh! here is what i wrote in february - You may be right, i hope you are. The issue i have is that slick or grippy it matter's not as when you enter the 3rd bend there is no choice but to take the same line into the corner as the rider in front as the only real line entering that bend was an outside one and that involved staying as inside as you could (meaning they're also taking the inside line if that makes any sense!). To go into the 3rd corner hoping to go around someone who already is taking (to all intents and purposes) the outside line (and inside line!) seems to involve the rider attempting the manouvre needing to shut off in order to let the rider in front enter the bend and then wanging it back on but by that point they have lost the momentum or power required to do what they were hoping. I'm not sure if that makes sense but that seems to be the issue from where i stand. Without bringing the bend in to some degree in order to make at least 2 entry points in the bend then i don't see how things can improve. But i really, really hope to be proven wrong! Mick Edited April 22, 2012 by volty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc1874 Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I don't understand where all the negativity about Leicester is coming from. The set up of the club is great from the point of view of a visiting fan. It takes a hell of a lot to do what mr h has done. Honestly it's the clubs second season back. I think as I say consulting an Alan Bridget type figure would be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skodaman Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I don't understand where all the negativity about Leicester is coming from. The set up of the club is great from the point of view of a visiting fan. It takes a hell of a lot to do what mr h has done. Honestly it's the clubs second season back. I think as I say consulting an Alan Bridget type figure would be great Track specialists such as Alan Bridgett have been consulted and the conclusion was the same - the white line taken in on the bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john birch Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 It,s like it,s fit around an imaginary football pitch-the bends need to be taken in on the approach to the apex.First and second bend far too square IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovey Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Track specialists such as Alan Bridgett have been consulted and the conclusion was the same - the white line taken in on the bends. That was worked out by the fans ages ago - indeed, almost before a race had even been staged. Even on photos it looked too narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 No disrespect but i'm certainly not in the anti Hemsley camp, slightly shameful of you to say i am being as maybe 290 of the 300 posts i've ever posted on this forum have been defending all the good things David Hemsley has done. I'm actually appalled you put in a camp with Robert72 just because i now believe that they have had time to address the one major stumbling block to a great speedway stadium; the track. Maybe before calling me you might have wished to check my previous posts over the last year to get more rounded view. Grumpy (old) git i may actually be but not ignorant enough to make posts about people that are in equal measures ill founded and ill researched. I'm sure the likes of speedibee, gemini, lionsden et al must find it funny that i'm now classed as one of them! Mick. Believe it or not i am not anti DH but i am annoyed that after last seasons shocking racing due to the track shape, he failed to correct the problem during the winter and in so putting the club at risk, some may not think so but even the hard core of fans will turn to other things sooner than later and some may think its negative but its not its a reality if the track isnt changed. mick, i find it amusing that you dont want to be in my circle however you seem you agree with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Who is Norbold? An Ippy fan I am told, writer of many, many books on the history of speedway and London tracks in particular, generally posts in the Years Gone Bye section and General Discussions about politics with his Marx hat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 volty.......I'm sure the likes of speedibee, gemini, lionsden et al must find it funny that i'm now classed as one of them! What am I? I'm obviously wrong in thinking that I'm quite diplomatic when I post in any Leicester thread, but even when trying to make a jokey comment some people seem to take it the wrong way so it's not really worth saying anything at all. Anyway welcome to our exclusive club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Not read all the thread but to gain more racing lines on a track you have alter the banking on the bends. Size and shape isn't the issue you just have work with what you've got. Unfortunatley the negativity comes from the poilitics of the original management set up which split the supporters into 2 camps, I'm affraid. Had the management structure remaind as it was originally planned I believe this would never have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawadt500 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Volty is spot on, there is only one line entering the bend which creates a follow the leader syndrome. I have spoken at length to three different track men, all of them are telling me the same thing - the straights are too long for the bends and the entry is too narrow. No amount of messing about with the surface will cure the basic problem of the shape, Even the Doc couldn't cure this patient (excuse the pun). In any case anyone can have the same shale mix that he uses - it's a blend of product from two sources purchased from a quarry group well known to patrons of BP. There is obviously a reason why it wasn't changed in the winter, DH had certainly indicated to me that it would be and Glyn certainly thought so. The reason I'm led to believe is finincial, drains would have to be moved in order to take in the kerb. I don't know the cost of this but a couple of people, including someone who has done similar work elsewhere, have mentioned as low as £6K and up to £10K, so take your pick. That's obviously not pocket money but not a fortune either, and I reckon more will be lost in gate receipts by not doing the work in the long term. I'm not a knocker of DH or the management at BP, I happen to get on well with just about everyone involved. But short term finincial pain is preferable to the alternative. No business can supply a product or service that it's customers are not happy with and have a viable future. Eventually the customer base will diminish to such an extent that the enterprise is no longer viable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandersome Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 What am I? I'm obviously wrong in thinking that I'm quite diplomatic when I post in any Leicester thread, but even when trying to make a jokey comment some people seem to take it the wrong way so it's not really worth saying anything at all. Anyway welcome to our exclusive club. I mean't the club that doesn't wear DH embossed rose tinted spectacles and prefers to head into enemy territory most fridays instead ! (me seemingly being a/if not the founder member of the club that does does wear them!) Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Ah.....that sounds good. I wouldn't like anyone to think I'm being deliberately negative because I'm not and I don't think I've said anything too bad since they've opened, just what a lot of others are saying - the track appears to be the wrong shape to encourage exciting racing. Fans are obviously going to vote with their feet if they're not being entertained, which by the sounds of it they already are. It's all very well David asking folk to bring people along but they're not going to go again if the racing is processional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandersome Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Volty is spot on, there is only one line entering the bend which creates a follow the leader syndrome. I have spoken at length to three different track men, all of them are telling me the same thing - the straights are too long for the bends and the entry is too narrow. No amount of messing about with the surface will cure the basic problem of the shape, Even the Doc couldn't cure this patient (excuse the pun). In any case anyone can have the same shale mix that he uses - it's a blend of product from two sources purchased from a quarry group well known to patrons of BP. There is obviously a reason why it wasn't changed in the winter, DH had certainly indicated to me that it would be and Glyn certainly thought so. The reason I'm led to believe is finincial, drains would have to be moved in order to take in the kerb. I don't know the cost of this but a couple of people, including someone who has done similar work elsewhere, have mentioned as low as £6K and up to £10K, so take your pick. That's obviously not pocket money but not a fortune either, and I reckon more will be lost in gate receipts by not doing the work in the long term. I'm not a knocker of DH or the management at BP, I happen to get on well with just about everyone involved. But short term finincial pain is preferable to the alternative. No business can supply a product or service that it's customers are not happy with and have a viable future. Eventually the customer base will diminish to such an extent that the enterprise is no longer viable. and i think the issue here is that people such as myself, nobrakeshere1 & fanmale are people who have backed DH to the hilt for all the good things he as done and have argued that you have to give the management time but that time surely needed to have been over this last winter. The Magnus Karlsson testimonial meeting with a bumper crowd, great stars but the exact same old track (coupled with efforts clearly made to get to a call off point that wouldn't cost anyone anything but left fans feeling short changed and conned) has to be the most miserable depressing meeting i've ever witnessed. That could have been the perfect springboard for a new season with a rejuvinated track but the chance was lost for ever, along with maybe 2/3rds of the crowd that day. 2 more weeks of entertainment free meetings against Scunthorpe and Ipswich and you are faced with the very poor turnouts of Rye on bank holiday weekend and title favourites Somerset this weekend. If the aguments you are using for these low turnouts (not aimed at the author of the post i'm replying to) is then that the weather stopped the usual crowd turning up (or what ever excuse next weeks is) then i feel it time to stand back and review the facts a little! Mick. and as family with two season tickets i would gladly forgo whatever they want to put on instead of one or both of the Newport meetings in may/june if i thought they were going to use the period constructively in altering the track. There's two extended opportunities to work on the track presenting itself in the near future if the management were brave enough. IMO of course! Mick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionsDen Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Volty is spot on, there is only one line entering the bend which creates a follow the leader syndrome. I have spoken at length to three different track men, all of them are telling me the same thing - the straights are too long for the bends and the entry is too narrow. No amount of messing about with the surface will cure the basic problem of the shape, Even the Doc couldn't cure this patient (excuse the pun). In any case anyone can have the same shale mix that he uses - it's a blend of product from two sources purchased from a quarry group well known to patrons of BP. There is obviously a reason why it wasn't changed in the winter, DH had certainly indicated to me that it would be and Glyn certainly thought so. The reason I'm led to believe is finincial, drains would have to be moved in order to take in the kerb. I don't know the cost of this but a couple of people, including someone who has done similar work elsewhere, have mentioned as low as £6K and up to £10K, so take your pick. That's obviously not pocket money but not a fortune either, and I reckon more will be lost in gate receipts by not doing the work in the long term. I'm not a knocker of DH or the management at BP, I happen to get on well with just about everyone involved. But short term finincial pain is preferable to the alternative. No business can supply a product or service that it's customers are not happy with and have a viable future. Eventually the customer base will diminish to such an extent that the enterprise is no longer viable. And you're absolutely spot on too Jawadt500. Great post. All of it. Sad to say but this short-termism is damaging Leicester Speedway. When a rational poster like Volty comes on and says what he does then they need to listen. I've had my disagrements with Volty on here previously regarding the way Leicester is run but I respect his opinon and he's definitely not aligned to any separate agenda. He just says what he thinks and having accurately recognised the problem has been brave enough to say so - and in doing so ended up even lumped in with heretics like me and robert72! As for Hemsley, to ignore the problems with the track, and this despite having told certain people he would be doing otherwise, just doesn't make sense long term. His programme notes this week were interesting too. He complains about the low attendance aganst Rye House and then goes on to implore everyone to 'spread the word' and tell people what a great night out is to be had at Beaumont Park. Hard for anyone to do that though when you know it not to be true. I invited several new people along last season for their first ever taste of live speedway but none of them have shown the remotest interest in going again. Besides which, he's the promoter. Surely it's HIS job to promote! He says there are lots of people in Leicester who don't even know that a speedway track is there - and he's right. But who's fault is that? He needs to look inwards instead of simply asking everyone else to take action. His PR man is now wearing too many hats, and he himself is a promoter who doesn't promote. IMO of course! Edited April 23, 2012 by LionsDen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 And you're absolutely spot on too Jawadt500. Great post. All of it. Sad to say but this short-termism is damaging Leicester Speedway. When a rational poster like Volty comes on and says what he does then they need to listen. I've had my disagrements with Volty on here previously regarding the way Leicester is run but I respect his opinon and he's definitely not aligned to any separate agenda. He just says what he thinks and having accurately recognised the problem has been brave enough to say so - and in doing so ended up even lumped in with heretics like me and robert72! As for Hemsley, to ignore the problems with the track, and this despite having told certain people he would be doing otherwise, just doesn't make sense long term. His programme notes this week were interesting too. He complains about the low attendance aganst Rye House and then goes on to implore everyone to 'spread the word' and tell people what a great night out is to be had at Beaumont Park. Hard for anyone to do that though when you know it not to be true. I invited several new people along last season for their first ever taste of live speedway but none of them have shown the remotest interest in going again. Besides which, he's the promoter. Surely it's HIS job to promote! He says there are lots of people in Leicester who don't even know that a speedway track is there - and he's right. But who's fault is that? He needs to look inwards instead of simply asking everyone else to take action. His PR man is now wearing too many hats, and he himself is a promoter who doesn't promote. IMO of course! There seems to be a trend nowadays , throughout speedway , of promoters trying to get the paying public to do their job for them . You get fed up of the ordinary fan getting the onus of the success of the club being placed upon them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 And you're absolutely spot on too Jawadt500. Great post. All of it. Sad to say but this short-termism is damaging Leicester Speedway. When a rational poster like Volty comes on and says what he does then they need to listen. I've had my disagrements with Volty on here previously regarding the way Leicester is run but I respect his opinon and he's definitely not aligned to any separate agenda. He just says what he thinks and having accurately recognised the problem has been brave enough to say so - and in doing so ended up even lumped in with heretics like me and robert72! As for Hemsley, to ignore the problems with the track, and this despite having told certain people he would be doing otherwise, just doesn't make sense long term. His programme notes this week were interesting too. He complains about the low attendance aganst Rye House and then goes on to implore everyone to 'spread the word' and tell people what a great night out is to be had at Beaumont Park. Hard for anyone to do that though when you know it not to be true. I invited several new people along last season for their first ever taste of live speedway but none of them have shown the remotest interest in going again. Besides which, he's the promoter. Surely it's HIS job to promote! He says there are lots of people in Leicester who don't even know that a speedway track is there - and he's right. But who's fault is that? He needs to look inwards instead of simply asking everyone else to take action. His PR man is now wearing too many hats, and he himself is a promoter who doesn't promote. IMO of course! You're dead right too. It might be the promoters job to promote, but there is no better form of advertising than word of mouth. From what I saw against Rye House things have improved but, for all those who criticise Robert's postings, he has a point. Everyone knew the track shape needed to be changed and in Glyn Taylor the club had the man to do it. 'Short term financial pain' in this instance, is most certainly better than the potential alternative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobblytriers Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi all, I found this while looking for some drawings as to how the drains are built at a speedway track. I sort of looks as though the track was laid out to the drawings from the SCB handbook but I don't know if Leicesters track goes with some of the recomended dimensions. I thought someone might be interested if they haven't seen it before. Going back to the drains, can anyone point me to a section or plan of the the construction of the drains please or maybe a very good description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawadt500 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi all, I found this while looking for some drawings as to how the drains are built at a speedway track. I sort of looks as though the track was laid out to the drawings from the SCB handbook but I don't know if Leicesters track goes with some of the recomended dimensions. I thought someone might be interested if they haven't seen it before. Going back to the drains, can anyone point me to a section or plan of the the construction of the drains please or maybe a very good description? I believe that the drains around the inside line then feed into main drains further infield. I think the drains are quite deep as they have a shale trap. I guess others would know more detail than me though. I'm told by a respected figure that the outer drains do not pose any problem, apparently they can have the new bit of track laid over them and any new drainage can have a angled feed back into the existing system. Like I say I'm no expert but that's what I think i was being told! I 100% want Leicester Speedway to flourish, so let's hope it gets sorted, I honestly don't want to sound or read posts that are negative, fingers crossed I don't have to be saying the same thing next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hi all, I found this while looking for some drawings as to how the drains are built at a speedway track. I sort of looks as though the track was laid out to the drawings from the SCB handbook but I don't know if Leicesters track goes with some of the recomended dimensions. I thought someone might be interested if they haven't seen it before. Going back to the drains, can anyone point me to a section or plan of the the construction of the drains please or maybe a very good description? very interesting reading, doesnt that make the poole track fail the rules, not been there for a long time but isnt the pit gate as you exit the bend ?I think the drains are very close to the kerbs but it would be the cheaper option to move them than lose regualr fans and many away fans from wanting to visit knowing the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovey Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 very interesting reading, doesnt that make the poole track fail the rules, not been there for a long time but isnt the pit gate as you exit the bend ? I think the drains are very close to the kerbs but it would be the cheaper option to move them than lose regualr fans and many away fans from wanting to visit knowing the problems. I'm sure Chris Louis can give them some advice about moving the drains. Taking the white line in on the straights as well as the bends has been an excellent decision at Ipswich - that alongside the move up to the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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