speedy bill Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Let me run this past you,how about making heat eight another reserves race this will give the three pointers another chance to ride against riders of the same standard.They will get a boost out of scoring more points and earning a few more pounds to help with the cost of taking part,i am talking National League only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Let me run this past you,how about making heat eight another reserves race this will give the three pointers another chance to ride against riders of the same standard.They will get a boost out of scoring more points and earning a few more pounds to help with the cost of taking part,i am talking National League only. So then your number 2 loses out on a race? The only way to have an extra reserves race is to adjust the whole meeting template, you can't just change one race. One way of doing that would be the old 18 heat formula, 8 riders per team, and 2 reserves races. Also, it makes the assumption that all reserves are 3 pointers/No number 2's are 3 pointers. What happens at, for example, Stoke. If we sign a couple of good 3 pointers as 6 and 7, and they both improve to 4, along with Ben Reade, we could have our two 4 point reserves going up against two 3 pointers twice in a meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Let me run this past you,how about making heat eight another reserves race this will give the three pointers another chance to ride against riders of the same standard.They will get a boost out of scoring more points and earning a few more pounds to help with the cost of taking part,i am talking National League only. Not a bad idea, but what about the riders who are riding at number 2, would mean that they would possibly lose out on easy race and a chance to make some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy bill Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 You my stalker Spin King,Ok sorry number two so lets have a third race with one res and the number twos the team manager could then chose any of the res to go in by making a res change.It then gives the res another chance leaving only one or the other to race against top five team men twice.May give the team managers something to think about for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 You my stalker Spin King,Ok sorry number two so lets have a third race with one res and the number twos the team manager could then chose any of the res to go in by making a res change.It then gives the res another chance leaving only one or the other to race against top five team men twice.May give the team managers something to think about for a change. I don't about giving Team Managers something to think about gives me something to think about. You do have point of giving young reserves chance to earn more, how about having meetings over 16 heats with two reserve races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vog Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 I don't about giving Team Managers something to think about gives me something to think about. You do have point of giving young reserves chance to earn more, how about having meetings over 16 heats with two reserve races. Problem with that is, if you get a team with a fantastic reserve and a poorer one, they are going to give the lesser reserve both reserve races and one other, and the better reserve will end up with 6 rides per meeting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Problem with that is, if you get a team with a fantastic reserve and a poorer one, they are going to give the lesser reserve both reserve races and one other, and the better reserve will end up with 6 rides per meeting... Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 When the 15 heat formula started back in the late 80's, heat 14 was an extra reserves race, adding onto the old 13 heat formula. In those days two most top league clubs had 2 Brits at 6 and 7 who were straight out of their junior team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 The only way to have an extra reserves race is to adjust the whole meeting template, you can't just change one race. One way of doing that would be the old 18 heat formula, 8 riders per team, and 2 reserves races. If you mean the one used in 1993, that was probably the most unsatisfactory format used in the last 42 years. My recollection is that there was almost universal agreement to go back to 15 heats in 1994. We could debate tweaking the format forever but it is unlikely to make much difference. Personally I'd go with 13 heats. That would make double headers more feasable (which could help encourage more tracks to run a second team) and provide second half time for more Anglian Junior/Midland Development League type events 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilK Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 If you mean the one used in 1993, that was probably the most unsatisfactory format used in the last 42 years. My recollection is that there was almost universal agreement to go back to 15 heats in 1994. We could debate tweaking the format forever but it is unlikely to make much difference. Personally I'd go with 13 heats. That would make double headers more feasable (which could help encourage more tracks to run a second team) and provide second half time for more Anglian Junior/Midland Development League type events Excellent post Arnie, totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backless Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 So the grand scheme would be to reduce the number of races involving the riders that the public actually turn up & pay to see - reducing the programmed rides for reserves by 25% and denying the paying public the nominated riders race - to free up more time for novices and amateurs. Sounds like a real winner and should help cut having to print so many admission tickets each season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 There's no need for a dramatic re-think on the entire meeting format for reserves to have an extra race. Everything up to and including heat 14 stays exactly the same, heat 15 becomes a second reserve race and heat 16 is the nominated heat. It's that easy. The only problem being that when I recently posted a few questions in poll format on here 47.73% of votes were against having a second race for reserves only. We have fans, managers and riders posting in here so it could have been any combination posting, but I found that a very disappointing result. The question was related to the number of teams in the league but I added an option that this should be done regardless of the number of teams in the league this season. Only 27.27% thought an extra race for reserves should be added regardless of the number of teams, the balance of 25% voted yes to an extra race if there are only 8 teams. I realise that even one race extra would raise costs, but surely not that much? If it's fans voting no to an extra race then I'm really confused. Perhaps the alternative is that we keep the format as it is but reserves have to take their four programmed rides unless ruled out by an injury suffered during the meeting and certified unfit by the doctor? That doesn't address the issue of lesser reserves facing very tough opposition in all but one heat. I would prefer that they get two chances against each other rather than fighting for scraps against heat leaders and second strings. We know half the battle is often confidence so lets give the reserves a boost. I'd still like to see clubs such as the Heathens, that pull in the crowd to support it, put on a second half with the bottom three of the main team and a number 8 (all teams should have a named number 8 in my opinion) involved against similar from the opposition (or invited if need be) in 6 heat format. Curfew's shouldn't be a weekly problem. Currently meetings are often long drawn-out affairs. There's no reason not to get a meeting done comfortably by 9pm, giving an hour for 6 more heats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 We keep going round and round with this subject. I don't think we'll ever get everyone of us to agree. because clubs have different needs. Team Sport in general always have a starting competative league and whatever its called, bottom, 3rd, N/L, or C/L its where riders start making a name for themselves,changing the existing format I dont think would make any difference. Its all about getting the youngsters into that first competative league, onto the ladder and climbing to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you mean the one used in 1993, that was probably the most unsatisfactory format used in the last 42 years. My recollection is that there was almost universal agreement to go back to 15 heats in 1994. Arnie, I agree with your sentiments over the 1993 heat format (although the joke format used in the 1998 Elite League was worse - the one with "nominated riders" replacing the No. 4 throughout the programme). But the 1994-1996 heat format consisted of 16 heats not 15 (there was a "nominated" Heat 15 followed by a "top scorers" Heat 16). All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 We keep going round and round with this subject. I don't think we'll ever get everyone of us to agree. because clubs have different needs. Team Sport in general always have a starting competative league and whatever its called, bottom, 3rd, N/L, or C/L its where riders start making a name for themselves,changing the existing format I dont think would make any difference. Its all about getting the youngsters into that first competative league, onto the ladder and climbing to the next level. As usual June your post is eminently sensible describing the needs of the developing riders. The only additional point that I would make is that matches should be no less than 15 heats and possibly more giving more paid rides and more experience especially important away from home. I would never favour a reduction to 13 heats and a second half since these days riders at all levels require expensive engine tuning to maintain their equipment at a competitive and viable standard and so often do not want second half rides. Such races are generally unpaid and to increase the frequency of tuning during the season without payment is unfair and would not be utilised by many riders Times have changed since the 13 heat formula was dropped and it would never work effectively to bring it back. Clearly there is a balance and events like the Midlands Development League, which is also unpaid, may involve one rider from each team from a preceding National League match. But it would be wrong to force riders to participate and this League is, in my view, primarily for those without a National League berth. Costs are all important these days with the price of fuel so high and possibly rising further quite quickly. We have to apply ourselves to the practical needs of riders and cost is a huge factor. Malcolm Vasey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 As things stand at the moment most teams go with a strong res at no7 this rider invarably takes the place of the number 6 in heat 14,and often has 7 rides,,,Great if you are the stronger reserve ,,but soul destroying for the no 6 who also gets swopped for the no 7s harder rides and then loses his second easiest ride in heat 14 and only gets 3 rides ,,and of course then begins to lose confidence...This is a situation above all others that in my opinion needs sorting more than anthing else regarding young reserves and thier progress.....Weather or not a new format could address this i dont know...?..But i would support one that did..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 There's no need for a dramatic re-think on the entire meeting format for reserves to have an extra race. Everything up to and including heat 14 stays exactly the same, heat 15 becomes a second reserve race and heat 16 is the nominated heat. It's that easy. Well not that easy. Quite aside from the fact that the reserves would then have 5 rides whereas everyone else would have 4, what happens if one or both reserves get injured during a meeting? If you mean the one used in 1993, that was probably the most unsatisfactory format used in the last 42 years. My recollection is that there was almost universal agreement to go back to 15 heats in 1994. Didn't think it was that bad, and that silly format that had nominated riders in certain heats was worse. The main problem was that matches were dragged out longer than necessary, the interval was after Heat 15 before the three nominated heats, and the reserves didn't have enough competitive races. However, it was nothing that couldn't have been fixed by tweaking the format and reducing the hanging around between heats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Some reserves have 3 rides, some have 7 rides. Sometimes riders get injured. Sorry, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make regarding these two factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 The point im trying to make is that many reserves are used as sacrificial lambs and it totally destroys thier confidence and this needs addressing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.