Which Is Best: The Old ‘one-off’ World Final Or Sgp.

[stratton]

HAVE you noticed one thing that darts and snooker 'stadiums' have in common ... a roof! And it is a lot easier to hang a dart board or move in a snooker table than to lay a speedway track.

 

I was at Plough Lane in 2002 and Perry Barr when it re-opened. Big crowds compared to the norm at British speedway these days but hardly massive by any scale.

Roof Phil you have it on the brain? do you think speedway is in good shape? could it be better.I think it could be but havent got people in charge with a vision and drive plod on year to year a real shame.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

i enjoyed riding at Wimbledon ....

 

And we enjoyed having you.. Though some muppet kept writing in our programme that you were from Widnes...!!!

 

HAVE you noticed one thing that darts and snooker 'stadiums' have in common ... a roof!

 

Enough already..

Come on Phil I thought a fundamental part of your job was to encourage people to come to Speedway.. If they see your obsession with roofs (rooves..?) then they'll conclude that they can only attend two GB meetings in 2012...: Telford & Cardiff!

We've managed to stage Speedway in the UK since 1928 with extremely little reliance on roofs - I think we can just about manage to carry on without them..!

[The Know]

HAVE you noticed one thing that darts and snooker 'stadiums' have in common ... a roof! And it is a lot easier to hang a dart board or move in a snooker table than to lay a speedway track.

 

I was at Plough Lane in 2002 and Perry Barr when it re-opened. Big crowds compared to the norm at British speedway these days but hardly massive by any scale.

 

didnt help in germany though did it. surprized they didnt use all the unsold tickets to soak the moisture up with god just thought another gp i sponsored didnt run.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

didnt help in germany though did it. surprized they didnt use all the unsold tickets to soak the moisture up with god just thought another gp i sponsored didnt run.

 

Or indeed all the programmes they printed but couldn't use coz of the last minute 'damp stored shale off'..! What's that..? Oh there were no progs actually printed were there.. That's odd... Has that ever been explained away..??

[PHILIPRISING]

Or indeed all the programmes they printed but couldn't use coz of the last minute 'damp stored shale off'..! What's that..? Oh there were no progs actually printed were there.. That's odd... Has that ever been explained away..??

 

WHERE on earth did you get that idea from? There were programmes but they were not made available because (and this was a Pinegen, publishers of Sepedway Star error) they included an incorrect race programme. We rapidly produced inserts with the right programme ready to be loosely inserted into the actual programmes had the event gone ahead. We redid the programme for the re-staging.

[Trees]

Interesting to read how people are changing their views about the GPs from positive to negative for various reasons ........

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

WHERE on earth did you get that idea from? There were programmes but they were not made available because (and this was a Pinegen, publishers of Sepedway Star error) they included an incorrect race programme. We rapidly produced inserts with the right programme ready to be loosely inserted into the actual programmes had the event gone ahead. We redid the programme for the re-staging.

 

People who were in Germany (thankfully I was NOT one of them) reported that on the AFTERNOON of the meeting, sellers at outlet points where the programme was to be sold from, told them there was no programme available. I can't recall when the meeting was actually cancelled - was it before this point or after... Seems somewhat strange... I suppose the matter could be resolved by physical copies of the programme appearing but I guess it'll be now said that they were all destroyed..!

 

I wasn't one of the unfortunate people who had that shockingly wasted journey but I know that among those who did travel there are unanswered questions - for it was surely the most unsatisfactory calling off of a meeting (what with there being a ROOF and all!) in international Speedway history; and one point (within the inevitable conspiracy-theorising..!) is that actually it was known in advance it wouldn't be held..

 

I'm sure you can see how an otherwise small-ish point about the apparent absense of any progs being printed MIGHT fuel such a conspiracy theory...

[PHILIPRISING]

People who were in Germany (thankfully I was NOT one of them) reported that on the AFTERNOON of the meeting, sellers at outlet points where the programme was to be sold from, told them there was no programme available. I can't recall when the meeting was actually cancelled - was it before this point or after... Seems somewhat strange... I suppose the matter could be resolved by physical copies of the programme appearing but I guess it'll be now said that they were all destroyed..!

 

I wasn't one of the unfortunate people who had that shockingly wasted journey but I know that among those who did travel there are unanswered questions - for it was surely the most unsatisfactory calling off of a meeting (what with there being a ROOF and all!) in international Speedway history; and one point (within the inevitable conspiracy-theorising..!) is that actually it was known in advance it wouldn't be held..

 

I'm sure you can see how an otherwise small-ish point about the apparent absense of any progs being printed MIGHT fuel such a conspiracy theory...

 

IF you doubt my word I can prove that the programmes were printed and at the stadium. However, with the meeting in doubt, there was no point in trying to sell them only to have another refund issue on hand. The gates were never opened, people never admitted to the stadium, why would they sell programmes? And, yes, we probably do have some in the office but because of the race-card errors BSI never allowed them to go on sale even after the cancellation.

 

I have written on here and in Speedway Star refuting any of the conspiracy charges which have about as much validity as Armstrong not stepping on the moon. I have first hand knowledge of everything that went on that day, as do lawyers representing various parties. There was no conspiracy.

 

Sure, there was a roof. But the problem was with the shale before it even got into the stadium and the fact that no matter what it wouldn't dry given that the concrete underneath couldn't absorb any moisture and the air temperature inside the stadium was cold. Rob Armstrong, the senior IMG executive there, was rightly furious and anyone who knows him and his background will testify that neither he, nor his company, would ever be part of such a fraudulent act. Those who suggest otherwise are simply talking out of their backsides.

 

Mistakes were made, human error came into play, but lessons were learned.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Thanks Phil - as I said I have no real knowledge of what happened on the day - but I did hear this story about the programmes... Thanx for clearing that up..

[oldace]

Interesting to read how people are changing their views about the GPs from positive to negative for various reasons ........

 

It's the same half a dozen or so people saying the same thing over and over believing that if you say something enough times people will start to believe it. The acid test of peoples opinions of the GP is reflected in the crowd and while that is maintaining, or even increasing in numbers it suggests people are indeed changing their opinion but in favour rather than against.

[Trees]

It's the same half a dozen or so people saying the same thing over and over

No it's not, there's a few early in their thread that have not posted on this subject before afaik.

[mickthemuppet]

SPEEDWAY'S fan base in Poland is much bigger than in the UK and the stadiums there are permanent which means the cost of staging GPS there is miniscule compared to here. Personally cannot see any sound argument at present for more than one GP in Britain.

 

 

 

The Speedway base in UK is much bigger that Sweden yet they have two GP's and one Ullevi is not a permanent track either. Plus the gate in Goteburg has nearly halved in the last three years. and has lost money in all those three as well. I find the thought of not being able to get a five figure plus gate at a 2nd UK GP impossible to believe

The money that a live three hour GP should generate ,I say should not be a problem to holding one anywhere.London.Coventry,Ipswich or Peterborough

Edited February 13, 2012 by mickthemuppet

[Humphrey Appleby]

The acid test of peoples opinions of the GP is reflected in the crowd and while that is maintaining, or even increasing in numbers it suggests people are indeed changing their opinion but in favour rather than against.

 

Except it's highly questionable whether SGP crowds are increasing, and even television audiences have reportedly declined in the past 2 or 3 years. People shouldn't take everything they're told at face value.

 

I also don't really detect any more SGP adherents than in the past. The SGP has always had its supporters, but it's equally as much the same individuals slavishly justifying the repetitive closed shop that benefits virtually no-one but a private company that'll walk away from the sport as soon as it's milked dry. Many of the adherents have also been predicting a full-time series held in prestige venues all around the world for the past 10+ years, yet with the exception of Cardiff and Copenhagen we're still waiting...

 

The Speedway base in UK is much bigger that Sweden yet they have two GP's and one Ullevi is not a permanent track either. Plus the gate in Goteburg has nearly halved in the last three years. and has lost money in all those three as well. I find the thought of not being able to get a five figure plus gate at a 2nd UK GP impossible to believe

 

It has little to do with the fanbases. Take a look at the SGP sponsors and you'll see several are local governments or tourist boards who pony up cash to bring the GPs to their cities.

 

Aside from the GPs they organise themselves, BSI's main concern is how much it can raise in staging fees from the host clubs/promotions, which in turn is often dependent on some sort of local authority support. It's somewhat irrelevant to BSI whether anyone actually turns up to the third-party GPs, and once a host has 'done their wedge' (as in Australia, Slovenia and Latvia), there's always another locality to move onto.

 

In the case of Britain, the only really viable permanent track for staging a second GP is Coventry, and I'm guessing Coventry City Council or the Heart of England Tourist Board isn't interested in using a speedway GP to get people to visit the city.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby

[The White Knight]

Except it's highly questionable whether SGP crowds are increasing, and even television audiences have reportedly declined in the past 2 or 3 years. People shouldn't take everything they're told at face value.

 

I also don't really detect any more SGP adherents than in the past. The SGP has always had its supporters, but it's equally as much the same individuals slavishly justifying the repetitive closed shop that benefits virtually no-one but a private company that'll walk away from the sport as soon as it's milked dry. Many of the adherents have also been predicting a full-time series held in prestige venues all around the world for the past 10+ years, yet with the exception of Cardiff and Copenhagen we're still waiting...

 

 

 

It has little to do with the fanbases. Take a look at the SGP sponsors and you'll see several are local governments or tourist boards who pony up cash to bring the GPs to their cities.

 

Aside from the GPs they organise themselves, BSI's main concern is how much it can raise in staging fees from the host clubs/promotions, which in turn is often dependent on some sort of local authority support. It's somewhat irrelevant to BSI whether anyone actually turns up to the third-party GPs, and once a host has 'done their wedge' (as in Australia, Slovenia and Latvia), there's always another locality to move onto.

 

In the case of Britain, the only really viable permanent track for staging a second GP is Coventry, and I'm guessing Coventry City Council or the Heart of England Tourist Board isn't interested in using a speedway GP to get people to visit the city.

 

Well put Humphrey - on BOTH points. :approve:

[The Know]

IF you doubt my word I can prove that the programmes were printed and at the stadium. However, with the meeting in doubt, there was no point in trying to sell them only to have another refund issue on hand. The gates were never opened, people never admitted to the stadium, why would they sell programmes? And, yes, we probably do have some in the office but because of the race-card errors BSI never allowed them to go on sale even after the cancellation.

 

I have written on here and in Speedway Star refuting any of the conspiracy charges which have about as much validity as Armstrong not stepping on the moon. I have first hand knowledge of everything that went on that day, as do lawyers representing various parties. There was no conspiracy.

 

Sure, there was a roof. But the problem was with the shale before it even got into the stadium and the fact that no matter what it wouldn't dry given that the concrete underneath couldn't absorb any moisture and the air temperature inside the stadium was cold. Rob Armstrong, the senior IMG executive there, was rightly furious and anyone who knows him and his background will testify that neither he, nor his company, would ever be part of such a fraudulent act. Those who suggest otherwise are simply talking out of their backsides.

 

Mistakes were made, human error came into play, but lessons were learned.

 

think maybe one day i will write a book about the behind the scenes sgp, might be a few red faces all round from the top to the bottom

 

Except it's highly questionable whether SGP crowds are increasing, and even television audiences have reportedly declined in the past 2 or 3 years. People shouldn't take everything they're told at face value.

 

I also don't really detect any more SGP adherents than in the past. The SGP has always had its supporters, but it's equally as much the same individuals slavishly justifying the repetitive closed shop that benefits virtually no-one but a private company that'll walk away from the sport as soon as it's milked dry. Many of the adherents have also been predicting a full-time series held in prestige venues all around the world for the past 10+ years, yet with the exception of Cardiff and Copenhagen we're still waiting...

 

 

 

It has little to do with the fanbases. Take a look at the SGP sponsors and you'll see several are local governments or tourist boards who pony up cash to bring the GPs to their cities.

 

Aside from the GPs they organise themselves, BSI's main concern is how much it can raise in staging fees from the host clubs/promotions, which in turn is often dependent on some sort of local authority support. It's somewhat irrelevant to BSI whether anyone actually turns up to the third-party GPs, and once a host has 'done their wedge' (as in Australia, Slovenia and Latvia), there's always another locality to move onto.

 

In the case of Britain, the only really viable permanent track for staging a second GP is Coventry, and I'm guessing Coventry City Council or the Heart of England Tourist Board isn't interested in using a speedway GP to get people to visit the city.

 

for once i agree with one of your posts. yes your right, bsi will only promote an event they know will make cash, ie cardiff. others are sold to local club promoter so its down to them to get bodies in to make money and bsi are ok .

Edited February 13, 2012 by The Know

[Woz01]

Sky sports news did a report about the Olympic stadium a few months back and in that report it stated they have money set aside for changes to the stadium when they decide what to do with it, a roof was mentioned in the report. I can see advantages for a gp in London but with Cardiff having a roof has to be the biggest factor especially the cost of the whole event.

[Parsloes 1928 nearly]

Sky sports news did a report about the Olympic stadium a few months back and in that report it stated they have money set aside for changes to the stadium when they decide what to do with it, a roof was mentioned in the report. I can see advantages for a gp in London but with Cardiff having a roof has to be the biggest factor especially the cost of the whole event.

 

That is, I guess, possible as the top several tiers of the OS are in fact temporary and the plan is to remove this as part of conversion. Though I'd imagine it would be a civil engineering job of some enormity to add a roof in such a retro-fix fashion... I certainly hope they do though, as then really the OS would be a perfect venue for Speedway!

[Team Man]

Doesn't the 02 have a roof?

[Dave_minall]

Doesn't the 02 have a roof?

 

It does indeed sir

[Humphrey Appleby]

It does indeed sir

 

I went to the O2 arena a couple of weeks ago and actually wondered whether you could hold a GP there. I think it would probably be a bit small capacity wise, but you could possibly get a track in there.