think fast Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 So with at the moment only 8 teams in the league. Only 14 proper meetings for this years NL only riders yet they will all have to have the new silencers at roughly £200 per silencer so for 2 bikes thats £400. Then theres the new style rear guard rule which isnt gonna be just a case of adjusting the old guards down. This also effects the push bar so new push bars will be needed along with the guards or the complete 1 piece gp guards at £50 odd apiece. Then because of the new guards the riders will also need new covers as the full length covers wont fit. So where are these young or even semi experienced riders suppose to get the neccessary funding for these parts. Silencers were held back a year from the other leagues because of costs but as theres very few 2nd hand ones about due to the fact alot of top riders (E.L) found themselves buying new ones half way through last year so not getting new ones this year (P.L riders dont tend to buy new equipment every year so dont sell on this stuff after 1 season). Could they maybe do this with the guards rule as NL riders need to buy he silencers this year? There is no way most of these riders will make this money back over the season when you take into account already running costs e.g. engine services, fuel, oil, tires. Unless they are being paid more than what they should be. Most of the riders in this league race because they love racing. Could they not be helped out to keep them racing instead of like many retire. Most British riders dont get the help and opportunities in the higher leagues and if they do its often only for half a season or 1 season and unlike alot of foriegners around the 3pt PL mark if a Brit hasnt suddenly become a 5pt plus rider he is thrown back in the NL as obviously not good enough and will never make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 £200+ for the new silencers ...£70+ for the new rear mudgaurds ...£150+ for a new bike cover..£420 for one bike.... £840 for two bikes where are the riders supposed to find this sort of money before the season starts ,,and thats with out other bike parts and engine tunes,,The health and safety brigade have gone stark raving mad..At this level of racing these extra costs can not be justified.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 While I would accept that it may not be easy for some there are a couple of things that strike me. Firstly, everyone knew about the regulation changes for the bikes ages ago. Everyone should have long-since had a plan in place (by which I mean save the extra few hundred instead of going out on the pop or buying the latest phone/trainers/jeans/sunglasses or going on a winter holiday etc. It's been about 3 years since we knew the new silencers were on the way and a year for the mudguards. We're only talking about having to save a few pounds a week. Ask the like of Pedersen, Crump and Nicholls what they think about the 'health and safety brigade'. The new style mudguard would have most likely saved all of them from severe injury. Nobody said being a professional sportsman was going to be easy! All of that said, I do think there should be more meetings where possible at NL level. An old fashioned second half with 4-man teams featuring the number 2, 6, 7 & 8 (or if you don't have a No. 8 signed use an unattached 3-pointer) is something I've suggested before and is something that would give extra rides to some of the lads that don't have the PL as well, and an extra half a dozen heats for the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 You don't need new covers......... there are guards which are like the 'old' rear guards (but they are just lowered and little different shape) and you can still use your covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Duch grasstrack could you possibly give us the name and telephone number for this supplier of legal gaurds that take the old covers would be obliged... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Ask the like of Pedersen, Crump and Nicholls what they think about the 'health and safety brigade'. The new style mudguard would have most likely saved all of them from severe injury the new guards will now just chop your fingers straight off instead of burning your skin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) 20 century heathen..Pedersen ,Crump and the like can hardly be compared to the kids in the National League who can not be classed as professionals at this level as every penny earned.. and much more goes into maintaining bikes ,vans ,, excessories ..My own grandson Ben Morley is badly in need of sponsers for the new season,,However small all financial assistance is greatfully recieved .And that is the real world...The Dean Machine being a rider of many years experience is also correct in the effect on fingers..They have been designed with only legs and arms in mind..so still dangerous....Oh and most tracks dont pay for second half racing........ Edited January 20, 2012 by waco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think fast Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Im not saying if it is a valid safety measure it shouldnt be brought in but i totally agree with Deano that they are actually more dangerous. Unlike road bikes that have smooth tires speedway tires have knobbles and could grip a finger or hand and rip them into the guard. with no chance of doing anything about it with the new guards. No way of getting hand or arm out of guard like i have seen done in the past as there was room in old style guards. 21st century heathen you mention the likes of Pedersen, Crump, Nicholls as much as i take your point if they were so revolutionarily safe then surely these such riders would of started using these guards straight away without having to have the new ruling come in. Dutch grasstrack yes i have seen these guards you mention but i do not believe that old covers will still fit as they will be too high up the side. They may squash down the push bar to fit making them a very bad fit and possibly cause problems. Also they will look completely wrong (unproffesional) as wont fit properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaptooth Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 While I would accept that it may not be easy for some there are a couple of things that strike me. Firstly, everyone knew about the regulation changes for the bikes ages ago. Everyone should have long-since had a plan in place (by which I mean save the extra few hundred instead of going out on the pop or buying the latest phone/trainers/jeans/sunglasses or going on a winter holiday etc. It's been about 3 years since we knew the new silencers were on the way and a year for the mudguards. We're only talking about having to save a few pounds a week. Ask the like of Pedersen, Crump and Nicholls what they think about the 'health and safety brigade'. The new style mudguard would have most likely saved all of them from severe injury. Nobody said being a professional sportsman was going to be easy! All of that said, I do think there should be more meetings where possible at NL level. An old fashioned second half with 4-man teams featuring the number 2, 6, 7 & 8 (or if you don't have a No. 8 signed use an unattached 3-pointer) is something I've suggested before and is something that would give extra rides to some of the lads that don't have the PL as well, and an extra half a dozen heats for the fans. can I ask, do you ride or have you ridden or have a son that did/does?. Genuine question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post THE DEAN MACHINE Posted January 21, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 im going to annoy some with this post but , to be a speedway rider is your own choice nobody is forceing you to do it , it is a fantastic often painfull career/hobby , you have to sacrifice just about everything to do it , no other motorcycle sport pays you anything other than prize money to compete, you dont have a given right to earn money at it ,especially at NL level , it takes a silly amount of money to compete above NL level and although sponsors are great and well recieved why should you expect someone else to pay for your privilage/hobby/passion, as brits yes we do get less backing from our govening body than say Denmark,Sweden or Poland but it will never change , i do sympathize with anybody trying to get started in the sport ,the fact is it costs a stupid amount of time and money and your always going to be on a loser , but the sport dosent do anything to help out with costs , ive been going around in circles for long enough now to know how it works ,and when i think of the money i lost around 1997-2001 trying to compete in the premier league it makes me cringe ,i was traveling to berwick and glasgow for home meetings but i wanted to be a rider and thats what you have to do no matter how much money you lose , i actually didnt lose money last year by doing my own engines and frame straightening and wheel building , im just seeing out my career this year and having fun , hopefully all you young new riders will get to the top and make loads of money from speedway , but what im trying to say is to be a speedway rider is a privalige not a right and to get to the top its going to cost you in money/time/effort/tears/heartache/sweat and blood , enjoy the ride 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary o'hare Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well said dean.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniev123 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) im going to annoy some with this post but , to be a speedway rider is your own choice nobody is forceing you to do it , it is a fantastic often painfull career/hobby , you have to sacrifice just about everything to do it , no other motorcycle sport pays you anything other than prize money to compete, you dont have a given right to earn money at it ,especially at NL level , it takes a silly amount of money to compete above NL level and although sponsors are great and well recieved why should you expect someone else to pay for your privilage/hobby/passion, as brits yes we do get less backing from our govening body than say Denmark,Sweden or Poland but it will never change , i do sympathize with anybody trying to get started in the sport ,the fact is it costs a stupid amount of time and money and your always going to be on a loser , but the sport dosent do anything to help out with costs , ive been going around in circles for long enough now to know how it works ,and when i think of the money i lost around 1997-2001 trying to compete in the premier league it makes me cringe ,i was traveling to berwick and glasgow for home meetings but i wanted to be a rider and thats what you have to do no matter how much money you lose , i actually didnt lose money last year by doing my own engines and frame straightening and wheel building , im just seeing out my career this year and having fun , hopefully all you young new riders will get to the top and make loads of money from speedway , but what im trying to say is to be a speedway rider is a privalige not a right and to get to the top its going to cost you in money/time/effort/tears/heartache/sweat and blood , enjoy the ride I must say that you have hit sport of any kind on the head and it is a breath of fresh air to hear a rider speak the truth. It costs silly money in any kind of sport as I said on another posting with my involvement in UK top level Ice Skating, but you have given me lots of joy when watching you at all your levels of racing over the years! Thank you for all your endeavours and pains over the years. Edited January 21, 2012 by berniev123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 im going to annoy some with this post but , to be a speedway rider is your own choice nobody is forceing you to do it , it is a fantastic often painfull career/hobby , you have to sacrifice just about everything to do it , no other motorcycle sport pays you anything other than prize money to compete, you dont have a given right to earn money at it ,especially at NL level , it takes a silly amount of money to compete above NL level and although sponsors are great and well recieved why should you expect someone else to pay for your privilage/hobby/passion, as brits yes we do get less backing from our govening body than say Denmark,Sweden or Poland but it will never change , i do sympathize with anybody trying to get started in the sport ,the fact is it costs a stupid amount of time and money and your always going to be on a loser , but the sport dosent do anything to help out with costs , ive been going around in circles for long enough now to know how it works ,and when i think of the money i lost around 1997-2001 trying to compete in the premier league it makes me cringe ,i was traveling to berwick and glasgow for home meetings but i wanted to be a rider and thats what you have to do no matter how much money you lose , i actually didnt lose money last year by doing my own engines and frame straightening and wheel building , im just seeing out my career this year and having fun , hopefully all you young new riders will get to the top and make loads of money from speedway , but what im trying to say is to be a speedway rider is a privalige not a right and to get to the top its going to cost you in money/time/effort/tears/heartache/sweat and blood , enjoy the ride So true. Getting a second half ride is difficult enough. A proper second half would be amazing,think of the permutations and crowd reaction. Which track will try it first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Central Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 So true. Getting a second half ride is difficult enough. A proper second half would be amazing,think of the permutations and crowd reaction. Which track will try it first? What is your version of a proper second half?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzatopfuel Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 im going to annoy some with this post but , to be a speedway rider is your own choice nobody is forceing you to do it , it is a fantastic often painfull career/hobby , you have to sacrifice just about everything to do it , no other motorcycle sport pays you anything other than prize money to compete, you dont have a given right to earn money at it ,especially at NL level , it takes a silly amount of money to compete above NL level and although sponsors are great and well recieved why should you expect someone else to pay for your privilage/hobby/passion, as brits yes we do get less backing from our govening body than say Denmark,Sweden or Poland but it will never change , i do sympathize with anybody trying to get started in the sport ,the fact is it costs a stupid amount of time and money and your always going to be on a loser , but the sport dosent do anything to help out with costs , ive been going around in circles for long enough now to know how it works ,and when i think of the money i lost around 1997-2001 trying to compete in the premier league it makes me cringe ,i was traveling to berwick and glasgow for home meetings but i wanted to be a rider and thats what you have to do no matter how much money you lose , i actually didnt lose money last year by doing my own engines and frame straightening and wheel building , im just seeing out my career this year and having fun , hopefully all you young new riders will get to the top and make loads of money from speedway , but what im trying to say is to be a speedway rider is a privalige not a right and to get to the top its going to cost you in money/time/effort/tears/heartache/sweat and blood , enjoy the ride OMG so cynical, yet pluasable. Why do we bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 im going to annoy some with this post but , to be a speedway rider is your own choice nobody is forceing you to do it , it is a fantastic often painfull career/hobby , you have to sacrifice just about everything to do it , no other motorcycle sport pays you anything other than prize money to compete, you dont have a given right to earn money at it ,especially at NL level , it takes a silly amount of money to compete above NL level and although sponsors are great and well recieved why should you expect someone else to pay for your privilage/hobby/passion, as brits yes we do get less backing from our govening body than say Denmark,Sweden or Poland but it will never change , i do sympathize with anybody trying to get started in the sport ,the fact is it costs a stupid amount of time and money and your always going to be on a loser , but the sport dosent do anything to help out with costs , ive been going around in circles for long enough now to know how it works ,and when i think of the money i lost around 1997-2001 trying to compete in the premier league it makes me cringe ,i was traveling to berwick and glasgow for home meetings but i wanted to be a rider and thats what you have to do no matter how much money you lose , i actually didnt lose money last year by doing my own engines and frame straightening and wheel building , im just seeing out my career this year and having fun , hopefully all you young new riders will get to the top and make loads of money from speedway , but what im trying to say is to be a speedway rider is a privalige not a right and to get to the top its going to cost you in money/time/effort/tears/heartache/sweat and blood , enjoy the ride Or look at it another way. Your doing a job for someone when you're racing in a profesional league so should be earning money from it. NL is classed as semi-profesional so should at least pay most of the riders costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Or look at it another way. Your doing a job for someone when you're racing in a profesional league so should be earning money from it. NL is classed as semi-profesional so should at least pay most of the riders costs. it does pay some of the costs , it pays travel expenses and it pays points money and nowhere else will you get that racing motorbikes , ,but untill you get to at least a second string in the premier league you shouldn't be thinking about getting anywhere near breaking even and not treating it as a job , it would be wonderful if speedway was raking money in and could afford to pay riders decent money but it cant, i'm not saying riders riders don't deserve getting payed for it ,i'm just saying that with what speedway does pay you should be grateful that you get something that you love doing , and to be honest if you are doing speedway to make a fortune and earn a good living ,then you are in the wrong job , cause unless you get to the top it isn't going to happen ,that does sound a little harsh but its a fact , speedway itself could do something to make it more affordable but it wont , costs will just keep rising and about 80% of British riders wont get past premier league standard in their career and will not have made any sort of money , but 99% will say they had a fantastic time trying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portgunner Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Duch grasstrack could you possibly give us the name and telephone number for this supplier of legal gaurds that take the old covers would be obliged... alan belham sell the gaurd ,think there made by ev fibreglass but with the push bar they are roughly the same price as the gp gaurd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21st century heathen Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 the new guards will now just chop your fingers straight off instead of burning your skin I'm not saying you'e wrong, but surely with point is that the risk of getting anything 'sucked in' has been reduced as there is far less room between the guard and the tyre? I assume that there is a gap sort of to the side of the tyre rather than dead centre, and it's if you got your fingers caught in there that they would dragged under the bottom edge of the guard? If that's right could this be solved by extending the guard sides so that its bottom edge is level with the wheel rim rather than at a higher level? Or perhaps it's needs to be a more 'chunky' design with rounded edges? 20 century heathen..Pedersen ,Crump and the like can hardly be compared to the kids in the National League who can not be classed as professionals at this level as every penny earned.. and much more goes into maintaining bikes ,vans ,, excessories .. My own grandson Ben Morley is badly in need of sponsers for the new season,,However small all financial assistance is greatfully recieved .And that is the real world... The Dean Machine being a rider of many years experience is also correct in the effect on fingers..They have been designed with only legs and arms in mind..so still dangerous....Oh and most tracks dont pay for second half racing........ I wasn't comparing them as riders. My point was that these riders have had really severe burn injuries to their arm/leg (delete as appropriate). It doesn't matter who they are or at what level they race. As I stated, I'm not suggesting it's easy. It's not, if it were we would all be doing it, but where in the 'brochure' did it say being a speedway rider is a walk in the park? If I had money to burn I would happily help out young Brits, and I suspect a great many supporters feel exactly the same. But at the end of the day the fact that we pay 'x' in travel costs, £10 to get in (NL), couple of quid for a programme (although I don't), probably at least a few quid for drinks/food, and perhaps 'x' at the track shop on DVD's, programme boards etcetera is the only reason that riders are getting anything back. I accept Dean's word that the guards still present an injury risk. Although it may not be perfect surely it's an improvement and in a fundamentally dangerous sport any baby steps towards safety has to be welcomed with open arms in my opinion. More importantly, it should be welcomed at all levels. Any suggestion that the NL should not benefit from any safety improvement is a nonsense as the safety of Ben Morley is every bit as important as that of Jason Crump et al. Im not saying if it is a valid safety measure it shouldnt be brought in but i totally agree with Deano that they are actually more dangerous. Unlike road bikes that have smooth tires speedway tires have knobbles and could grip a finger or hand and rip them into the guard. with no chance of doing anything about it with the new guards. No way of getting hand or arm out of guard like i have seen done in the past as there was room in old style guards. 21st century heathen you mention the likes of Pedersen, Crump, Nicholls as much as i take your point if they were so revolutionarily safe then surely these such riders would of started using these guards straight away without having to have the new ruling come in. Perhaps I am wrong, and only time will tell. But I still think that with a smaller gap the chances of any body part, whether it be a finger or a leg, getting caught in the first place must be reduced. It's easy to say that someone could lose a finger against the new guard, but could it not be argued that you could more easily lose a finger by getting one caught in the chain or between the spokes? These are far more open, but riders aren't losing fingers all over the track. In fact before Morten Risager's injury last season how long has it been since a rider lost a finger/thumb? Perhaps because they are relatively freak accidents and they don't think it would happen again? Perhaps they just don't like them? Perhaps they have a stock of 'old' style to use rather than just bin? I have no idea. can I ask, do you ride or have you ridden or have a son that did/does?. Genuine question Life long fan that finally had a crack at Scunny back in Dec last year. I ride on the road so every single reflex and reaction was completely wrong. The result? I fell off five times in less than fours hours, and everything hurt for a week afterwards! I got a unique insight into Claus Vissing's life as a speedway rider. im going to annoy some with this post but , to be a speedway rider is your own choice nobody is forceing you to do it...but what im trying to say is to be a speedway rider is a privalige not a right and to get to the top its going to cost you in money/time/effort/tears/heartache/sweat and blood , enjoy the ride Quote trimmed due to length. Excellent post. Or look at it another way. Your doing a job for someone when you're racing in a profesional league so should be earning money from it. NL is classed as semi-profesional so should at least pay most of the riders costs. They can't give you what they haven't got. It's swings and roundabouts. Everyone is crying out for riders to be paid more, and I wouldn't deny them a penny of it, but on the flip side there is a strict pay structure in place so even the clubs that get better crowds (thinking of the Heathens as the most obvious example) and could afford to pay riders more aren't allowed to. If the Heathens could pay riders the most it could afford I bet you fans of other clubs would be moaning that we were getting all the best riders because we can pay more, it's not fair, they're buying the league (paying more is no guarantee of success I hasten to add) etcetera. How many would be saying at least that's 7 lads getting more money which is better than none? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not saying you'e wrong, but surely with point is that the risk of getting anything 'sucked in' has been reduced as there is far less room between the guard and the tyre? I assume that there is a gap sort of to the side of the tyre rather than dead centre, and it's if you got your fingers caught in there that they would dragged under the bottom edge of the guard? If that's right could this be solved by extending the guard sides so that its bottom edge is level with the wheel rim rather than at a higher level? Or perhaps it's needs to be a more 'chunky' design with rounded edges? I wasn't comparing them as riders. My point was that these riders have had really severe burn injuries to their arm/leg (delete as appropriate). It doesn't matter who they are or at what level they race. I accept Dean's word that the guards still present an injury risk. Although it may not be perfect surely it's an improvement and in a fundamentally dangerous sport any baby steps towards safety has to be welcomed with open arms in my opinion. More importantly, it should be welcomed at all levels. Any suggestion that the NL should not benefit from any safety improvement is a nonsense as the safety of Ben Morley is every bit as important as that of Jason Crump et al. i am not really opposed to the new gaurds except in looks maybe , i just think its a change that will just change the injury rather than eliminate it ,and if you think how many races have been run for years and years with the current style gaurds how many riders have got caught in the mudgaurd? , the bikes are a minefield for getting tangled up with and suffering burns but thats the nature of racing motorcycles and always will be and as for safety at all levels what about rear wheel spoilers , it is now a rule at all levels you have to use them to stop fingers getting caught in the back wheel except in the GPs ? ,why what so special about the GPs that makes them exempt from the rule , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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