Could Mike Bast Have Been A Force In World Speedway?

[Guest]

Here is the "AMA (American Motorcycle Association) Hall of Fame" tribute to Mike Bast. My thoughts on reading it - "he was never interested in riding outside the USA."

Bast could ride and defeat the world's best on USA tracks - and that was all he wanted to do.

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=125

Edited November 21, 2014 by Guest

[Leicester Hunter]

I think Bast had the ability but maybe was there something inside telling him he was not that confident in his own ability.i think if he had gone to Wimbledon he would of done well at home but i am not so sure about him on his travels.At the likes of the big tracks Sheffield,Halifax,Swindon,Exeter,Belle Vue that's where my doubts lay.After Keeter, Autrey showed the way came over in a tough era came out of his comfort zone and became an outstanding rider why didnt Bast do the same?.I have seen alot of Bast interviews and he seems a real nice guy and was comfortable with how his career went i admire that i wonder if he has any regrets.?

It's always interesting to note that no one ever mentions that Scott Autrey wasn't alone when he ventured over here in 1973. He was accompanied by two other Americans, one of whom could, given the right circumstances, easily made it over here.

 

Sumner McKnight was an unmitigated disaster at Swindon, averaging less than 2 points a match in his short spell there, but the other rider was Rick Woods (Gene's elder brother), and he was making a half decent start to his British career at the notorious Somerton Park rectangle in Newport - that is until he had a major strop over not getting a place in the British World Championship Qualifying rounds, and he jetted back to the States, never to return. His CMA when he left was almost bang on 6 points a match, better than Autrey, who at that time was averaging between 5.25 and 5.50. Autrey's average at that time shouldn't really be sniffed at either, as he apparently had very little speedway experience before he arrived on these shores.

 

As for Mike Bast, well, having read his AMA citation above, I'm not surprised he didn't venture over here. Earning all that money just for beating tourists in his own backyard, not bad work if you can get it. And he didn't even really have to put his reputation on the line either.

 

Any regrets on his part? I seriously doubt it.

[Guest]

As for Mike Bast, well, having read his AMA citation above, I'm not surprised he didn't venture over here. Earning all that money just for beating tourists in his own backyard, not bad work if you can get it. And he didn't even really have to put his reputation on the line either.

 

Any regrets on his part? I seriously doubt it.

 

I agree Leicester Hunter. I don't think that Mike Bast ever had any intention of racing in either UK or Europe. Why should he? At the end of the day, titles are not everything in speedway - or sport - it's how much reward a participant can get for taking part that really maters.

[stratton]

It's always interesting to note that no one ever mentions that Scott Autrey wasn't alone when he ventured over here in 1973. He was accompanied by two other Americans, one of whom could, given the right circumstances, easily made it over here.

 

Sumner McKnight was an unmitigated disaster at Swindon, averaging less than 2 points a match in his short spell there, but the other rider was Rick Woods (Gene's elder brother), and he was making a half decent start to his British career at the notorious Somerton Park rectangle in Newport - that is until he had a major strop over not getting a place in the British World Championship Qualifying rounds, and he jetted back to the States, never to return. His CMA when he left was almost bang on 6 points a match, better than Autrey, who at that time was averaging between 5.25 and 5.50. Autrey's average at that time shouldn't really be sniffed at either, as he apparently had very little speedway experience before he arrived on these shores.

 

As for Mike Bast, well, having read his AMA citation above, I'm not surprised he didn't venture over here. Earning all that money just for beating tourists in his own backyard, not bad work if you can get it. And he didn't even really have to put his reputation on the line either.

 

Any regrets on his part? I seriously doubt it.

Woods won three USA titles 68,70,72, i am convinced he would of done very well,like himself Autrey a few years later he fell foul of there own authorities and in a way took a year or two away from him.Alan Christian is another one who i believe would of done well but he didnt want to make the commitment.

[Guest]

Woods won three USA titles 68,70,72, i am convinced he would of done very well,like himself Autrey a few years later he fell foul of there own authorities and in a way took a year or two away from him.Alan Christian is another one who i believe would of done well but he didnt want to make the commitment.

 

There is a lot of money in USA speedway - and the California weather - no wonder many Americans didn't bother about coming to Europe. Winning titles in Europe-established speedway probably means very little to most of them.

[stratton]

There is a lot of money in USA speedway - and the California weather - no wonder many Americans didn't bother about coming to Europe. Winning titles in Europe-established speedway probably means very little to most of them.

It did to the ambitious ones,they knew they had to come over here to reach the top of the tree.Penhall,Ermolenko,Hancock all did it in Penhalls case it took alot as he came from a wealthy background.

[Guest]

 

There is a lot of money in USA speedway - and the California weather - no wonder many Americans didn't bother about coming to Europe. Winning titles in Europe-established speedway probably means very little to most of them.

 

 

It did to the ambitious ones,they knew they had to come over here to reach the top of the tree.Penhall,Ermolenko,Hancock all did it in Penhalls case it took alot as he came from a wealthy background.

 

If I was a top class California-based speedway rider with all the attractions offered there compared to what there is in Europe I would make just one decision - "...pass the sunglasses and the surf board!:

At the end of the day, what real merit is there in winning speedway championships other than to be recorded as a name in a record book for an event that in most cases slides into obscurity? How many winners of what were regarded as major championships in the 1930s are now remembered? Very few indeed.

There were many other riders of the same calibre as those mentioned by sidney who chose the California option. For my part, I can understand why.

[iris123]

 

 

 

If I was a top class California-based speedway rider with all the attractions offered there compared to what there is in Europe I would make just one decision - "...pass the sunglasses and the surf board!:

At the end of the day, what real merit is there in winning speedway championships other than to be recorded as a name in a record book for an event that in most cases slides into obscurity? How many winners of what were regarded as major championships in the 1930s are now remembered? Very few indeed.

There were many other riders of the same calibre as those mentioned by sidney who chose the California option. For my part, I can understand why.

This all started up again because of a list of titles,some quite obscure that Bast won........At the end of the day he chose to be a big fish in a small pond and that is how he will be remembered.Some of his compatriots chose another route and have their names among some of the greats of the sport as do one or two of his compatriots from the 30s.No-one can blame him for choosing to go for money rather than honours,but some of his fellow countrymen rode against the best away from home in foreign countries and adapted to foreign tracks and beat them quite often.That is deserving of a better place in the history of our sport than someone who mastered a handful of tracks.They probably rode more meetings on a variety of sized tracks in one season than Bast did in a decade

It's always interesting to note that no one ever mentions that Scott Autrey wasn't alone when he ventured over here in 1973. He was accompanied by two other Americans, one of whom could, given the right circumstances, easily made it over here.

 

Sumner McKnight was an unmitigated disaster at Swindon, averaging less than 2 points a match in his short spell there, but the other rider was Rick Woods (Gene's elder brother), and he was making a half decent start to his British career at the notorious Somerton Park rectangle in Newport - that is until he had a major strop over not getting a place in the British World Championship Qualifying rounds, and he jetted back to the States, never to return. His CMA when he left was almost bang on 6 points a match, better than Autrey, who at that time was averaging between 5.25 and 5.50. Autrey's average at that time shouldn't really be sniffed at either, as he apparently had very little speedway experience before he arrived on these shores.

 

 

This isn't true.We have had a number of discussions over the years about those 3.I have mentioned being at Wimbledon at the start of the 1973 season when Autrey and McKnight rode in the second half,before they had signed for anyone,i think.What i didn't know is that Autrey had ridden at Plough Lane in '72 as well and all 3(i think) had arrived in the UK after doing a winter in South Africa/Rhodesia.As it is i think there were some comments that could be traced back to another American start that suggests Woods never really had the commitment to the sport that it needs to reach the top.Again,we will never know

Edited November 24, 2014 by iris123

[Bruiser McHuge]

I would say there is no doubt that had Bast come to England at his peak then he would have made a real good go at it and would have become one of the better riders in the league.....he would have had the backing, the bikes and the package to do well and you certainly can't look at one Inter Continental Final as evidence that he wouldn't as I would say it's an almost impossible situation to come over in his position and compete in a one off meeting at that level.....I would think that given a season or two full time over here then he could have competed well in meetings like that.

But like it's been said he had a decent lifestyle over in the USA and was making good money.....in 1979 he was supposed to have offered to give up his Inter Continental final place to Kelly Moran in return for 8 grand so it shows he had a taste for money !.......he ended up dropping out for nothing though.

 

As it stands I don't think you can put him as one of the best Americans let alone riders but I certainly think he could have been...I also think Mike Faria could have been a far better international rider had he come to England earlier....he came too late in his career I think but he was an excellent rider.......and anyone know why Chris Manchester went from a 10 point rider to a poor second string almost overnight ?....he looked really class at one point for a very short time.

[stratton]

I went to the White City meeting in 77,and i really expected Bast to put up a show.But to be fair to him he was mugged off he was promised alot of track time practice weeks before the meeting but this never happened.So really looking back it was an impossible task for him it just shows you Penhall struggled that day but four years later he was World Champ.

[salty]

Didn't Chris Manchester have a bad injury and lose his nerve a wee bit? Maube someone else can confirm.

As for Mike Bast, we 'll never know how good he would have been in Europe. Guess he was lucky that he rode in the States when there was enough money to make a comfortable living.

[The White Knight]

Didn't Chris Manchester have a bad injury and lose his nerve a wee bit? Maube someone else can confirm.

As for Mike Bast, we 'll never know how good he would have been in Europe. Guess he was lucky that he rode in the States when there was enough money to make a comfortable living.

He obviously lacked ambition though. I would have thought that any Sportsman/woman would strive to get to the top in their chosen Sport. Obviously Bast didn't think it was worth the effort.

Edited November 24, 2014 by The White Knight

[Guest]

He obviously lacked ambition though. I would have thought that any Sportsman/woman would strive to get to the top in their chosen Sport. Obviously Bast didn't think it was worth the effort.

 

The opinion has been made in this thread, not only in regard to Mike Bast but other USA "stay in California" that they preferred to stay there and don't regard racing elsewhere as seriously as we suppose they should have done. It boils down to one definition IMO they have a far different concept as to what speedway is about in relation to what other parts of the world regard it as. The Americans in most cases would seem to regard speedway as well-paid crowd entertainment rather than the tightly knit competition structure elsewhere.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Guest

[The White Knight]

 

The opinion has been made in this thread, not only in regard to Mike Bast but other USA "stay in California" that they preferred to stay there and don't regard racing elsewhere as seriously as we suppose they should have done. It boils down to one definition IMO they have a far different concept as to what speedway is about in relation to what other parts of the world regard it as. The Americans in most cases would seem to regard speedway as well-paid crowd entertainment rather than the tightly knit competition structure elsewhere.

You are right gustix, but his experience and ability in all other places of Speedway competition, ie. Europe means that he can, and never could be ranked amongst the truly 'Greats' of the Sport.

[fatface]

He obviously lacked ambition though. I would have thought that any Sportsman/woman would strive to get to the top in their chosen Sport. Obviously Bast didn't think it was worth the effort.

You would think so. The Californian money and lifestyle are certainly big factors.

 

But I would also say - in this case - that it may be a symptom of American sport. I get the impression that for many American sportsmen being the best in the US is enough for them and - in their mind - akin to being the best anyway. At the risk of racial stereotyping, many yanks simply don't have the international outlook people from other nations do. Isn't it something like only a third of Americans actually have a passport?

 

Like it or not, Formula One is the acid test of motorsport. The Formula One World Champion is recognised as the best driver in the world. Yet, there is not a strong tradition of American drivers testing themselves at the global level, instead preferring Indy Car or Nascar.

[Guest]

You would think so. The Californian money and lifestyle are certainly big factors.

 

But I would also say - in this case - that it may be a symptom of American sport. I get the impression that for many American sportsmen being the best in the US is enough for them and - in their mind - akin to being the best anyway. At the risk of racial stereotyping, many yanks simply don't have the international outlook people from other nations do. Isn't it something like only a third of Americans actually have a passport?

 

Like it or not, Formula One is the acid test of motorsport. The Formula One World Champion is recognised as the best driver in the world. Yet, there is not a strong tradition of American drivers testing themselves at the global level, instead preferring Indy Car or Nascar.

 

Excellent, I think that aptly sums up the American mind-set to sport outside the USA. And the latter remark in regard to F1 v Indy Car/Nascar is also a criteria as to how Americans see sport outside their homeland.

[The White Knight]

You would think so. The Californian money and lifestyle are certainly big factors.

 

But I would also say - in this case - that it may be a symptom of American sport. I get the impression that for many American sportsmen being the best in the US is enough for them and - in their mind - akin to being the best anyway. At the risk of racial stereotyping, many yanks simply don't have the international outlook people from other nations do. Isn't it something like only a third of Americans actually have a passport?

 

Like it or not, Formula One is the acid test of motorsport. The Formula One World Champion is recognised as the best driver in the world. Yet, there is not a strong tradition of American drivers testing themselves at the global level, instead preferring Indy Car or Nascar.

I would also add the Americans call Baseball the 'World Series'. What's that all about - not too many other countries even play Baseball. Canada does (Toronto 'Bluejays') but I can't immediately think of anyone else.

[Guest]

I would also add the Americans call Baseball the 'World Series'. What's that all about - not too many other countries even play Baseball. Canada does (Toronto 'Bluejays') but I can't immediately think of anyone else.

Baseball is more widespread than you may think TWK. This guide may be of interest to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_baseball_outside_the_United_States

[Triple.H.]

Isn't it called the World series as it was sponsored by the (Chicago?) World newspaper and absolutely nothing to do with being a world championship.

[Guest]

Isn't it called the World series as it was sponsored by the (Chicago?) World newspaper and absolutely nothing to do with being a world championship.

 

You are correct. The baseball World Series is just a championship for USA-based clubs. Nothing more than that.

This Link explains what the World Series is all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series

 

I quote this from Wikipedia: "Despite its name, the World Series remains solely the championship of the major-league baseball teams in the United States and Canada, although MLB, its players, and North American media sometimes informally refer to World Series winners as "world champions of baseball."

Edited November 25, 2014 by Guest