Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 If I've calculated correctly, that's about £36,000 a season, or £1,400 a week for a 26 week season. Why come to Europe? Why are reputations only made on achievements in the UK or Europe? As others have said on here - a few - Mike Bast is an all-time great. Speedway was in the '70s and '80s as it is now, a WORLD sport and fair enough Mike Bast may have been one of the best in the world but as he never really tested himself against the others (who remember were Kiwis, other Americans, British, Aussies, Danes, Swedes etc.) then no, I really don't think he CAN be truly assessed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Think a number of us saw him at White City.I certainly did.Also saw him at Wimbledon beforehand and got his autograph.But like it has been said it is impossible to judge him on that display.Just like it would have been with Panhall if that was his one and only meeting in the country.It is all speculation based on his performances in the States against the best that they had plus his performances with the Ivan/Briggo troupe etc abroad What was he like around Plough Lane in practice Iris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 The British final IS a qualifier for the GPs. Please explain how Hmm, would seem our friend CAN'T explain what he meant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes - money and sunshine... Fair enough but kind of guaranteed they'd only be this much beleted hypothetical debate, rather than any reality to any claim to greatness!! If he had come over here he would of been on a good whack money wise not peanuts always thought that was a excuse.?He had agreed a package with the Dons, Maidment said at the last minute he pulled out leaving them in a bit of a pickle team wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Mike Bast never came over here for a prolonged spell. He NEVER pitted himself against the BEST in the World on a regular basis. In fact his Record over here was distinctly AVERAGE to be kind. He MAY have developed in to an 'All Time Great' had he been prepared to sacrifice the money and the sunshine in America. Had he come over here to Race full time - who knows??? He didn't therefore he CAN be classed as a 'great' in the U.S.A. BUT an 'ALL TIME GREAT' - - - - NEVER!!!! The reason he would have had to come over to the U.K. to prove his 'greatness' is because that, at the time, you basically needed to be riding in Europe in order to put yourself up against the BEST in the World...... Mike Bast never did that. Edited January 23, 2012 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Mike Bast never came over here for a prolonged spell. He NEVER pitted himself against the BEST in the World on a regular basis. In fact his Record over here was distinctly AVERAGE to be kind. He MAY have developed in to an 'All Time Great' had he been prepared to sacrifice the money and the sunshine in America. Had he come over here to Race full time - who knows??? He didn't therefore he CAN be classed as a 'great' in the U.S.A. BUT an 'ALL TIME GREAT' - - - - NEVER!!!! The reason he would have had to come over to the U.K. to prove his 'greatness' is because that, at the time, you basically needed to be riding in Europe in order to put yourself up against the BEST in the World...... Mike Bast never did that. I think what you said TWK made me realise that riders then needed British speedway to realise there dreams.Now we are a poor relation 3rd in the pecking order and in my opinion no way back now.Remember seing Kelly riding for the usa when he was american based and he said he never had that edge and in Britain you could not get away with it.Britain was a superb learning curb variety of tracks sizes set ups without that you would never really be a force.Now how so much different it is only one big track in the E.L Blunsdon ok maybe Peterborough as well and after that all a muchness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Not an all time great ,to do that the british league was the only place to do it.He chose a different path did well in his safety zone ALL TIME GREAT is bandied about all to easily i dont class him as one. Historians are now beginning to dispute your theory! There is enough record around to justify his inclusion. Speedway was in the '70s and '80s as it is now, a WORLD sport and fair enough Mike Bast may have been one of the best in the world but as he never really tested himself against the others (who remember were Kiwis, other Americans, British, Aussies, Danes, Swedes etc.) then no, I really don't think he CAN be truly assessed.. On his form in both the USA and Australia I rate Mike Bast very highly. Certainly on a par with those American stars like Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Bruce Penhall. Probably about 12th-14th in an overall rating list of a Top Twenty of speedway's greatest stars. Edited January 23, 2012 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Historians are now beginning to dispute your theory! There is enough record around to justify his inclusion. On his form in both the USA and Australia I rate Mike Bast very highly. Certainly on a par with those American stars like Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Bruce Penhall. Probably about 12t=14th in an overall rating list of a Top Twenty of speedway's greatest stars. You are kidding he would not be in my top 50 ,Penhall went out and grabbed it his destiny if he Bast was 12th or 14th where was Penhall 1st? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I have followed speedway since 1946 and seen all the stars from that season onwards. As the years have progressed my opinion of riders has gone beyond believing the best only raced in Britain. Another who I rate on a par as one of speedway's greatest ever, as I do Mike Bast, is the Norwegian ace Leif 'Basse' Hveem yet, apart from a brief early 1950s spell at West Ham, had little experience in British racing. As with Mike Bast, I would place Hveem in a top 20 greatest everlsit. One day I'll put that list on here - but that time has yet to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Historians are now beginning to dispute your theory! There is enough record around to justify his inclusion. On his form in both the USA and Australia I rate Mike Bast very highly. Certainly on a par with those American stars like Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Bruce Penhall. Probably about 12t=14th in an overall rating list of a Top Twenty of speedway's greatest stars. Never in a million years. As sidney says - Bast would not make my top fifty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I don't know quite what speedyguy is basing this on.I don't have much info at hand unless i dig deep in my cellar for records.How did he do in the US league meetings for instance?And there must have been a good few open meetings at the time with international line-ups.online you can see the test series from 1971 which was earlyish in his career.But apart from a good meeting at Costa Mesa(where else....)he looked decidely average at the big Ascot Park track where he could only beat Dave Gifford + George Hunter.Hardly world class riders.I would like to see more records of Basts meetings from his peak.And particularly how he did away from Costa Mesa at places like Ascot Park over a period and not just the one meeting Having looked further he does seem to have had some impressive scores in US v Rest of the World meetings in that 74-79 period up against riders like Mauger,Michanek,Plech and Collins.But the scores at Ascot are definitely much weaker Edited January 23, 2012 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 On his form in both the USA and Australia I rate Mike Bast very highly. Certainly on a par with those American stars like Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Bruce Penhall. Probably about 12t=14th in an overall rating list of a Top Twenty of speedway's greatest stars. Well I respect your opinion but I really can't imagine many people (not even the man himself!) would rate Mike Bast even in their top 50 (or even 100!)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 i remember seeing the late steve bast ride for wembley 1970. i still have a photo of him in a lions race jacket in my collection. it must have been the only one ever sold at the empire stadium! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Historians are now beginning to dispute your theory! There is enough record around to justify his inclusion. On his form in both the USA and Australia I rate Mike Bast very highly. Certainly on a par with those American stars like Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Bruce Penhall. Probably about 12th-14th in an overall rating list of a Top Twenty of speedway's greatest stars. Nonsense. Who are these historians? Some official custodians of speedway history? I haven't heard of them. As several others have suggested, all we can do is speculate. My inkling is that he could have made it in Britain. But it's no more than that, an inkling. I certainly couldn't argue with any certainty that he would have been a Penhall, Autrey or Ermolenko. He could just as easily have been a Lucero, Pfetzing or Ingels. The point is that none of us know. So to stick him in the world's all-time top 20 with such scant evidence on the international stage is a bit silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Nonsense. Who are these historians? Some official custodians of speedway history? I haven't heard of them. As several others have suggested, all we can do is speculate. My inkling is that he could have made it in Britain. But it's no more than that, an inkling. I certainly couldn't argue with any certainty that he would have been a Penhall, Autrey or Ermolenko. He could just as easily have been a Lucero, Pfetzing or Ingels. The point is that none of us know. So to stick him in the world's all-time top 20 with such scant evidence on the international stage is a bit silly. Very much so. While its true Bast did OK in the States and in Australia he was only racing against guys who were effectively on holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Speedy guy, where are you? Pehaps to make it easier, you could justify for starters why you think he was one of the top 20 riders of the 70s (and name the others) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) On his form in both the USA and Australia I rate Mike Bast very highly. Certainly on a par with those American stars like Jack and Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux and Bruce Penhall. Probably about 12th-14th in an overall rating list of a Top Twenty of speedway's greatest stars.Given tbe recen t thread on greatest riders, and that I understa d speedyguy is now back posting under a different name, I wonder if we are going to get an answer on how this claim can be justified? Edited January 20, 2014 by waihekeaces1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Fwiw, if it was a list of greatest American riders 12-14th would probably be about right. That wasnt the claim though, was it gustix? Edited January 21, 2014 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Ahem, back to Mike Bast. The following link makes interesting reading. It shows that on home turf, against the world's best, Mike Bast could more than hold his own and he was comfortably the best of the Yanks. http://www.internationalspeedway.co.uk/usavrow.htm It's pretty obvious he didn't have the desire to take his talents to the international stage - so there's little point discussing that. But had he made the decision to apply himself to British racing - based on this - I suspect he could've cut the mustard. It also shows that on a very trick track where he was the specialist the top riders could more than give him a run for his money. If the then highly unfair one off World Championships had been held at Costa Mesa he'd have been a favourite, anywhere else and he wouldn't have been in the hunt for a podium in my opinion. Had he dedicated himself to riding in Europe it might have been a different story as he was clearly talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Short answer NO! Long answer NOO! Scott Autrey was far better than him as far as I am concerned and his best was 3rd. There were loads of Yanks who gave it a go at the top level and did not make the World Final so why was he better than them? Not a shred of evidence to back up his case. Just because he was a master of tiny tracks and the final was never at Eastbourne is not a case in his favour. As it said at the beginning he was not interested enough to try but that is not a case that he would have won if he had made the effort. Not a chance in Hell! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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