oldace Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Kennett was always decent at Blunsdon but for me never really regularly beat Crump Petersen Autrey [ 1 season ] the big guns.Also in my exsperience White City was always slick as a board suited a white line er.Jessup i wasnt a fan of a gater for me, and on the real race tracks wasnt a threat.With the little track/ big track point i agree but i also think it happened the other way as well. [ examples ] in the 60s 70 s and 80s Pendlebury ,Paulson , Haynes , Sharpe ,Kentwell, Baker, Janke, P,Carr , A. Smith , good at home big track riders away pretty poor. The other way round decent little track riders D.Kennett, Geer, Gachet, E.Dugard, Standing,Woods [nearly top class at home ]excellent at Crayford] Buck, were pretty poor on the big pacey tracks.Also years ago there were not many technical tracks about most were middle size to big excluding Wimbledon Eastbourne who were sometimes in the 2nd tier.Bast for example maybe if he had rode for Wimbledon he would of done well at home away some big tracks to master also Kings Lynn Cradley proper racing tracks.I dont think he would of averaged over 8 away maybe less than that.? Is your keyboard up the swanny or did you intend that look. It's a little difficult to wade through, ditch the exagerrated bolding up Sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 As far as Kennett, he certainly could ride the biggies pretty well for a small-track rider. I do remember him scoring a 21-point maximum at Swindon, which is better than "decent" I would say! Comparing Bast to Penhall and others is not as easy as it sounds. Obviously a small-track expert, and a very accomplished motorcyclist, I'm still not sure whether he would have had the same impact. He never had the same ambition and drive as many of his compatriots, so it is difficult to judge. The fact that he preferred to be a "big fish in a small pond" indicated that money (and the Californian lifestyle) was more important to him than the desire to prove himself internationally. I think that he was remarkably comfortable with his success and reputation in his own back yard, and didn't feel that he needed to prove anything to the rest of the world, or more importantly, to himself. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I didn't say that some riders from these nations hadn't entered qualifying, I said there was no national qualification process... In the past (sorry for the 'P' word again!) the British Final was one stage on the way to further (international)World Championship qualifiers, now the winner or highest positioned rider not already in it, can look forward to what, er, a basically meaningless one-off 'wild card' position at Cardiff.. The British final IS a qualifier for the GPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 As far as Kennett, he certainly could ride the biggies pretty well for a small-track rider. I do remember him scoring a 21-point maximum at Swindon, which is better than "decent" I would say! Comparing Bast to Penhall and others is not as easy as it sounds. Obviously a small-track expert, and a very accomplished motorcyclist, I'm still not sure whether he would have had the same impact. He never had the same ambition and drive as many of his compatriots, so it is difficult to judge. The fact that he preferred to be a "big fish in a small pond" indicated that money (and the Californian lifestyle) was more important to him than the desire to prove himself internationally. I think that he was remarkably comfortable with his success and reputation in his own back yard, and didn't feel that he needed to prove anything to the rest of the world, or more importantly, to himself. Steve No i dont disagree on that Chunky, Kennett was a very accomplished rider and you are right he was good at blunsdon.Himself, Simmo Jessup Davis to name a few for me were not capable of winning meetings at Hyde rd; Sheffield; Halifax ;against world class fields.And all those riders had good aquipment also for me it is a myth to say it is easy with decent aquipment to ride big racey tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 The British final IS a qualifier for the GPs. Please explain how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Please explain how The British final IS a qualifier for the GPs. What for 5 races? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) There seems to be confusion over two issues here. To the best of my knowledge it has always been up to an individual nation how to use up their allocated spaces in that years world championship. Some (most) used a series of qualifiers, although it wasn't unknown for a country to then over rule that process and pick who they wanted in the latter stages anyway. Others merely picked a representative. Often a qualifier, or a chosen representative didn't want to travel anyway so someone else was picked. Whether there are or aren't qualifiers is not down to the SPG organisers or the FIM. In a theoretical world of a return to a one off final exactly the same would apply whereby it would be up to the BSPA/ACU how they used up their allocation in a theoretical overseas final. Your gripe seems to be with the BSPA/ACU rather than the SGP Edited January 21, 2012 by oldace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 of course i'm pleased i saw the old format, went to two finals (83 and 85), loved them both though the racing in 83 was dire and on neither occasion did I get the winner I wanted (morton and S Moran). Also, loved going to the qualifying meetings, the tension,, some great races etc. I have great memories of the old system and I remember being disapointed when they were replaced by the GP system - however, indisputably the GP is better at determining who the best rider in the world is, and I can see no rationale whatsoever for going back to the old one-off system as a replacement for the GP system (as mentioned preivously I'd be happy to see a pared-down knock-out World Championship run in parallel if it could be made to work). I am all for that, i am not opposed to the gps just who and how they get in it.?Always felt one off meetings were exciting for live tv but i cant see it ever happening the people who run speedway even some in this country cant see farther than there own nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ahem, back to Mike Bast. The following link makes interesting reading. It shows that on home turf, against the world's best, Mike Bast could more than hold his own and he was comfortably the best of the Yanks. http://www.internationalspeedway.co.uk/usavrow.htm It's pretty obvious he didn't have the desire to take his talents to the international stage - so there's little point discussing that. But had he made the decision to apply himself to British racing - based on this - I suspect he could've cut the mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ahem, back to Mike Bast. The following link makes interesting reading. It shows that on home turf, against the world's best, Mike Bast could more than hold his own and he was comfortably the best of the Yanks. http://www.internati....uk/usavrow.htm It's pretty obvious he didn't have the desire to take his talents to the international stage - so there's little point discussing that. But had he made the decision to apply himself to British racing - based on this - I suspect he could've cut the mustard. Now Greg has 8 usa titles to Mike,s 7 be interesting what the americans take is now is Bast still the king at home.I suspect he is always frustrated me he didnt ride over here wonder privately does he regret it basing on what Penhall achieved earned mega money at home i understand why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 No i dont disagree on that Chunky, Kennett was a very accomplished rider and you are right he was good at blunsdon.Himself, Simmo Jessup Davis to name a few for me were not capable of winning meetings at Hyde rd; Sheffield; Halifax ;against world class fields.And all those riders had good aquipment also for me it is a myth to say it is easy with decent aquipment to ride big racey tracks. Davis actually rode both Belle Vue and the Shay pretty well, I recall the Aces getting him to appear as a guest on a few occasions. Of course, he would have struggled to beat a World Class field, as even at his peak I don't think you could have descrived him as a world class rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Lots of conjecture on this thread about a rider few if any of us have seen. Here's something informative about an non-European orientated all-time great of speedway racing. Enjoy! http://motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=125&lpos=-615px&letter=B&txtFname=&rblFname=S&txtLname=&rblLname=S&discipline=0 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Davis actually rode both Belle Vue and the Shay pretty well, I recall the Aces getting him to appear as a guest on a few occasions. Of course, he would have struggled to beat a World Class field, as even at his peak I don't think you could have descrived him as a world class rider. I see him win the manpower at Reading, he was then didnt like him good aquipment though great gater he was world class for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Lots of conjecture on this thread about a rider few if any of us have seen. Here's something informative about an non-European orientated all-time great of speedway racing. Enjoy! http://motorcyclemus...=S&discipline=0 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Think a number of us saw him at White City.I certainly did.Also saw him at Wimbledon beforehand and got his autograph.But like it has been said it is impossible to judge him on that display.Just like it would have been with Panhall if that was his one and only meeting in the country.It is all speculation based on his performances in the States against the best that they had plus his performances with the Ivan/Briggo troupe etc abroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes I saw him at the '77 ICF at White City (still to this day my favourite ever meeting!) and that was also the first time saw Bruce Penhall...! Bruce scored three points; Bast, one...: so I guess difficult to read too much into that either way... Penhall then came over here and became one of the world's greatest ever riders... Wonder why Mike Bast never considered trying League racing out over here too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes I saw him at the '77 ICF at White City (still to this day my favourite ever meeting!) and that was also the first time saw Bruce Penhall...! Bruce scored three points; Bast, one...: so I guess difficult to read too much into that either way... Penhall then came over here and became one of the world's greatest ever riders... Wonder why Mike Bast never considered trying League racing out over here too... Earming 60,000 dollars a season in the USA. Lots of sunshine in California? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yes I saw him at the '77 ICF at White City (still to this day my favourite ever meeting!) and that was also the first time saw Bruce Penhall...! Bruce scored three points; Bast, one...: so I guess difficult to read too much into that either way... Penhall then came over here and became one of the world's greatest ever riders... Wonder why Mike Bast never considered trying League racing out over here too... Keep up Parsloes old boy.Don't you read the threads any more?Look at one of the first posts on this thread for an explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Keep up Parsloes old boy.Don't you read the threads any more?Look at one of the first posts on this thread for an explanation Yes - money and sunshine... Fair enough but kind of guaranteed they'd only be this much beleted hypothetical debate, rather than any reality to any claim to greatness!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Earming 60,000 dollars a season in the USA. Lots of sunshine in California? If I've calculated correctly, that's about £36,000 a season, or £1,400 a week for a 26 week season. Why come to Europe? Why are reputations only made on achievements in the UK or Europe? As others have said on here - a few - Mike Bast is an all-time great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 If I've calculated correctly, that's about £36,000 a season, or £1,400 a week for a 26 week season. Why come to Europe? Why are reputations only made on achievements in the UK or Europe? As others have said on here - a few - Mike Bast is an all-time great. Not an all time great ,to do that the british league was the only place to do it.He chose a different path did well in his safety zone ALL TIME GREAT is bandied about all to easily i dont class him as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.