stratton Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Always wondered could Mike Bast have been a force in world speedway? See him at White City in 1977 and i think that year him and Penhall didnt get the practice they were promised.Did think Wimbledon were going to sign him never happened could he of mastered the big tracks and been a star outside of USA? what do people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well in his own words “It was cold, miserable, the food was bad and there was no money,” he said. “I was making 50 to 60 thousand a year in America living at the beach. So I never really rode British League. I kind of thought I was the world’s best at one time, but since I never competed in Europe on a regular basis, I never had a real shot at winning the world title.” He was one of if not the most talented US rider of the 70s,but didn't need British speedway to make a comfortable living.Just like Egon Müller.If either or both had really got stuck in and shown dedication to really become the best rider in the world i do think Egon could have done it and quite possibly Mike Bast would have been right up there as well.Imposible to say though for sure.But like i have mentioned on another thread if the world championship hadn't been so based around British tracks back in the 60s and 70s and before then why couldn't he have been.It is another point that shows how it was not really fair on riders who didn't want to be based in GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well in his own words “It was cold, miserable, the food was bad and there was no money,” he said. “I was making 50 to 60 thousand a year in America living at the beach. So I never really rode British League. I kind of thought I was the world’s best at one time, but since I never competed in Europe on a regular basis, I never had a real shot at winning the world title.” He was one of if not the most talented US rider of the 70s,but didn't need British speedway to make a comfortable living.Just like Egon Müller.If either or both had really got stuck in and shown dedication to really become the best rider in the world i do think Egon could have done it and quite possibly Mike Bast would have been right up there as well.Imposible to say though for sure.But like i have mentioned on another thread if the world championship hadn't been so based around British tracks back in the 60s and 70s and before then why couldn't he have been.It is another point that shows how it was not really fair on riders who didn't want to be based in GB I often thought though i dont know if Bast could of got around Belle vue, Sheffield Swindon Exeter Halifax .Costa mesa and technical tracks were his forte really and there were not many little tracks in England then . Eastbourne were in div 2 the littlest ,great riding style talented and Briggo and Ivan rated him always wondered if he would of been lost around hyde rd Belle vue.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well he rode on very big tracks in Australia with Ivan + Briggo.Who knows?But it just wasn't for him being away from California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well he rode on very big tracks in Australia with Ivan + Briggo.Who knows?But it just wasn't for him being away from California Autrey wasnt so well known as Bast he was my favourite american you are right Bast did ok in Australia sydney and other tracks there are massive .Shame now about the usa talent dried up Bast Gerd Riss Karl Maier and american Alan Christian are riders if full time would of done well in speedway i think world wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Autrey wasnt so well known as Bast he was my favourite american you are right Bast did ok in Australia sydney and other tracks there are massive .Shame now about the usa talent dried up Bast Gerd Riss Karl Maier and american Alan Christian are riders if full time would of done well in speedway i think world wide. Bast certainly had the talent, but no he would never have made it really big time quite simply because he didn't have the hunger and desire to do it. He liked the beach lifestyle to much to give it up and spend 8 months of the year pursuing bigger and better things. It simply wasn't in his make up to do it. Had a proper World Championship existed early in his career before he became too settled in California who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your 1st paragraph was true oldace but their has been a propor world championship since 1936 so I don't understand your last paragraph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your 1st paragraph was true oldace but their has been a propor world championship since 1936 so I don't understand your last paragraph! It was a little dig at others who use the same phrase against the GP. Not to be take seriously!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your 1st paragraph was true oldace but their has been a propor world championship since 1936 so I don't understand your last paragraph! I think the phrase "proper World Championship" is in reference to the likes of Parsloe refusing to acknowledge the GP series as a"proper" WC due to their perception of it as "unfair" and not openn to all riders. Bast didn't get a proper crack at the old WC due to American riders being given no places in the old WC while he was at his peak, and only very limited sports (1 or 2 from the US final) in his later years, hence to use the same logic, the WC in this period was not a "proper" world championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Bast certainly had the talent, but no he would never have made it really big time quite simply because he didn't have the hunger and desire to do it. He liked the beach lifestyle to much to give it up and spend 8 months of the year pursuing bigger and better things. It simply wasn't in his make up to do it. Had a proper World Championship existed early in his career before he became too settled in California who knows What bigger and better things when he was earning 60,000 dollars a season in the USA? That was really big money in the 1970s. At today's rates that's £40,000 - what was it worth in real terms 40 years ago? Basically, the original world championship was designed to be a British dominated event. I remember all the kerfuffle when it was suggested that European countries could hold their own qualifying rounds rather than their riders qualify by competing in the UK. And the further row when some British riders then had to start going to European tracks for their qualifying rounds. Like it or lump it the GP system is the best - all motorsports have similar competitions - its only speedway that baulks at the system. As for Mike Bast - yes under the GP system if operating in the 1970s I believe he would have been a world champion. Edited January 17, 2012 by speedyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 name='oldace' timestamp='1326837399' post='2069618'] It was a little dig at others who use the same phrase against the GP. Not to be take seriously!!!!!!! Sorry not good at spotting sarcasm in my old age! Mike Bast certainly could have developed into a world class performer had he chose to race in England but it would never have happened by staying in the USA where he became a tiny track clone and flying to Europe for World championship meetings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I think the phrase "proper World Championship" is in reference to the likes of Parsloe refusing to acknowledge the GP series as a"proper" WC due to their perception of it as "unfair" and not openn to all riders. Bast didn't get a proper crack at the old WC due to American riders being given no places in the old WC while he was at his peak, and only very limited sports (1 or 2 from the US final) in his later years, hence to use the same logic, the WC in this period was not a "proper" world championship. What year was it that Bast would have got his first chance, 1975? not sure but as you say he was already operating at his peak by then. In truth though I dont think he was in the mind set of Penhall for instance in being prepared to give up the big bucks and nice lifestyle chasing a dream of being World Champion. The sport was very slow to latch onto the fact that a World Championship shouldnt be confined to British or British based riders. It took until well into the seventies before this happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 What year was it that Bast would have got his first chance, 1975? not sure but as you say he was already operating at his peak by then. In truth though I dont think he was in the mind set of Penhall for instance in being prepared to give up the big bucks and nice lifestyle chasing a dream of being World Champion. The sport was very slow to latch onto the fact that a World Championship shouldnt be confined to British or British based riders. It took until well into the seventies before this happened Didnt Autrey and Woods have real problems Autrey exspecially in 79 i think he was banned? and 78 and 79 he had a great chance of the w.c.Woods who was doing well at Newport upped and went back home.I never really understood why there were problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Didnt Autrey and Woods have real problems Autrey exspecially in 79 i think he was banned? and 78 and 79 he had a great chance of the w.c.Woods who was doing well at Newport upped and went back home.I never really understood why there were problems. Autrey had problems with the AMA in the late seventies, largely over how they ran their events to decide their 1 or 2 qualifiers from the American Final. Just 2 in an era that had Penhall, Autrey, Kelly Moran, Mike Bast, Bobby Schwartz etc. Prior to this though Americans had no means of qualifying for the world final unless they raced here. The World Championship up to the seventies was very much a closed shop, entry only allowed if you raced here, the BSPA took that even into the eighties denying PC entry in 1981 when he was the top BL performer the year before. Fortunately the modern GP system allows a rider the opportunity to try and qualify wherever he is from and wherever he plies his trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 As for Mike Bast - yes under the GP system if operating in the 1970s I believe he would have been a world champion. surprised to read that - hardly any evidence to suggest that wouldve been at all likely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Fortunately the modern GP system allows a rider the opportunity to try and qualify wherever he is from and wherever he plies his trade Think you remain on a wind up... But please explain this comment. There are not even BRITISH qualifiers for the SGP and certainly aren't, for example, USA ones..! The notion that there's a world-wide set of 'qualifiers' for the current World Championship SGP series is total fantasy...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Autrey had problems with the AMA in the late seventies, largely over how they ran their events to decide their 1 or 2 qualifiers from the American Final. Just 2 in an era that had Penhall, Autrey, Kelly Moran, Mike Bast, Bobby Schwartz etc. Prior to this though Americans had no means of qualifying for the world final unless they raced here. The World Championship up to the seventies was very much a closed shop, entry only allowed if you raced here, the BSPA took that even into the eighties denying PC entry in 1981 when he was the top BL performer the year before. Fortunately the modern GP system allows a rider the opportunity to try and qualify wherever he is from and wherever he plies his trade I do think Briggo was disgracefully stopped in 73 a entry ,and a few individual meetiings as well i know he missed the Silver Plume at Swindon. surprised to read that - hardly any evidence to suggest that wouldve been at all likely I am not convinced he would of conquered all of the big tracks to be a threat.At White city good aquipment [ec] looked out of his depth was talented no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Think you remain on a wind up... But please explain this comment. There are not even BRITISH qualifiers for the SGP and certainly aren't, for example, USA ones..! The notion that there's a world-wide set of 'qualifiers' for the current World Championship SGP series is total fantasy...! I think he's on a wind up to the same extent that you are when you say that the old system was fairer for all riders To clarify, I think there's two ways that riders can be unfairly excluded from participating. One is if the governing/administering body for the championship (in the old days FIM, now BSI) specifically excludes riders. So, up to the mid 70s US riders were excluded from competing, at various times Australsaian riders not riding in Britain were excluded from competing. To my knowledge, all speedway nations are allowed to enter into the GP qualifiers. Perhaps you can advise me of an excluded country if I am wrong? So, on this basis, qualifying got the GP seems fairer. Now, the other way riders can be excluded from qualifying is by their own natuional body. So, examples from the past of this include PEter Collins in 81, Autrey in 78/79, Larry Ross winning the 85 NZ championship but the sole Nz spot in the overseas final being given to (the vastly inferior) Dave Barge. Sam Nicoljesen getting the last Danish qualifying spot in 86, but Tommy Knudsen (who was struggling with injuty and missed the cut) then being seeded through at his expense. And of course, under the GP it is still up to national bodies to decide how to award their own nations spots. So, under neither system was there a completely fair and transparent qualification system for all. But, this is not the fault of either WC or GP systems (although governing bodies could perhaps dictate how countries conduct qualifying for their places), but of respective nation's governing bodies. Agree or disagree Parsloes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I disagree fundamentally that there's a qualification system suffient in scope in the CURRENT system for it to warrant being called a fair World Championship. A proper World Championship does not have guaranteed slots for an elite few. All need to qualify. You can go on for ever and a day about the old system, it's the CURRENT system which, if we care about the sport, needs to be looked at now. And it is utter fantasy to claim that riders from all over the world can easily qualify for an SGP series. Rather like those who defend the Royal Family by saying it's good for tourism, those who seek to defend the current SGP series by quoting the case of Sam Nicoljesen from 25 years ago are showing a bankrupcy in their arguments. Try DEFENDING the current system against the charge that it's based far too much on protecting those in it, rather than building a confident system where all with merit can achieve; and then those of us who are sceptical would have something to consider.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I disagree fundamentally that there's a qualification system suffient in scope in the CURRENT system for it to warrant being called a fair World Championship. A proper World Championship does not have guaranteed slots for an elite few. All need to qualify. You can go on for ever and a day about the old system, it's the CURRENT system which, if we care about the sport, needs to be looked at now. And it is utter fantasy to claim that riders from all over the world can easily qualify for an SGP series. Rather like those who defend the Royal Family by saying it's good for tourism, those who seek to defend the current SGP series by quoting the case of Sam Nicoljesen from 25 years ago are showing a bankrupcy in their arguments. Try DEFENDING the current system against the charge that it's based far too much on protecting those in it, rather than building a confident system where all with merit can achieve; and then those of us who are sceptical would have something to consider.. I dont think I or anyone suggested it is easy to qualify, in reality those pursing the qualifying competition route are chasing 3 places, that said they are in the main chasing them without the current best 16 in the world in their path. I don't fundamentally disagree with you that the SGP currently is in no way perfect, the qualification process could be improved. Where I do disagree with you is your assertion that the old system was fairer to all when it clearly wasn't. What is certain though is however the riders ended up there the SGP guarantees a worthy world champion, a rider who proved he was the best all season long, not a rider who had a one off brilliant night. The truth is probably no system will please everyone but basing Cardiff attendance against current league track averages, lets say 1500 is the league average, then currently Cardiff if attracting 25 times the average track attendence. In 1981 average attendence would be 4000? meaning Wembleys 72,000 was 18 times the national average. I suspect I have erred on the high side of current attendance and the low side of the past which seems to indicate people in general are more in favour of the SGP, it has the attention of the less partisan supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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