iris123 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 TELL that to those who have made it through in recent years. They obviously thought it was worth it. As must all those who enter the qualifying rounds each year. The fact is it is not a closed shop. Tough to get into maybe but not impossible. Can only agree with you Philip.Some people here live in a time that has long since gone.It isn't possible any longer to get to the World Final by just or mainly riding in meetings in Britain.If we had the rather unlikely scenario that a PL or NL rider got through the old style British rounds he wouldn't be facing another round at King's Lynn,but more than likely a very costly trip to Eastern Europe,where if he did turn up he would have practicaly no chance of getting near qualifying for the next round.You'd end up with riders dropping out rather like the situation in some competitions now such as the European Championship.Last year i was at a round in Stralsund where two riders tied for a run-off but one rider found out where the next round was if he won and decided to drop out of the run-off.Some people just don't think of the cost of all this on Promoters and riders.The world has changed since the 60s + 70s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 TELL that to those who have made it through in recent years. They obviously thought it was worth it. As must all those who enter the qualifying rounds each year. The fact is it is not a closed shop. Tough to get into maybe but not impossible. There is VERY slim picking qualification wise... Whereas for those already IN the SGP series it is an absolute fact that it's easier to stay in it than to drop out.. I just think we need to accept that this is the case (rather than arguing that somehow these facts don't exist!) and then consider if that's something we want our World Championship to be.. If it is, fine.. Personally i think it makes it a far inferior product from the perspective of being a proper World Championship (as opposed to a Grand Prix Series) than not just the way it was previously but also the way it COULD be now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 And I bet there were still people moaning that not enough riders got a chance Most riders who didnt go in the world championships were the ones who were not ambitious were not bothered.Going back to some of those meetings Qualifiers alot of the unknown riders got a blast around for some of them it was the pinnacle of there career.By the way WIE JA you missed nearly all of Wiggies career out? shame on you i didnt no he started in 1989.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Most riders who didnt go in the world championships were the ones who were not ambitious were not bothered.Going back to some of those meetings Qualifiers alot of the unknown riders got a blast around for some of them it was the pinnacle of there career.By the way WIE JA you missed nearly all of Wiggies career out? shame on you i didnt no he started in 1989.? I never mentioned that Wiggies career started in 1989. My spelling was shocking in that post though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Can only agree with you Philip.Some people here live in a time that has long since gone.It isn't possible any longer to get to the World Final by just or mainly riding in meetings in Britain.If we had the rather unlikely scenario that a PL or NL rider got through the old style British rounds he wouldn't be facing another round at King's Lynn,but more than likely a very costly trip to Eastern Europe,where if he did turn up he would have practicaly no chance of getting near qualifying for the next round.You'd end up with riders dropping out rather like the situation in some competitions now such as the European Championship.Last year i was at a round in Stralsund where two riders tied for a run-off but one rider found out where the next round was if he won and decided to drop out of the run-off.Some people just don't think of the cost of all this on Promoters and riders.The world has changed since the 60s + 70s I am not living in the past, the costs have always been there that hasnt changed.In the 60s and 70s as far as i know riders still had to shell out it has never been cheap.My QUESTION to you is YES or NO? Is it easier to stay in the series for as LONG AS THE RIDER WANTS? the way the system is now my answer is YES it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I am not living in the past, the costs have always been there that hasnt changed.In the 60s and 70s as far as i know riders still had to shell out it has never been cheap.My QUESTION to you is YES or NO? Is it easier to stay in the series for as LONG AS THE RIDER WANTS? the way the system is now my answer is YES it is. You fail to understand what i said.The costs are not the same now,because a rider has to travel more.Back when you are talking about a rider could get almost to the Final just by riding in England.Now tell me the costs are the same as travelling to Latvia,Italy or Ukraine as it would be to travel to Poole or Birmingham.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I never mentioned that Wiggies career started in 1989. My spelling was shocking in that post though. sorry i misunderstood thought you mentioned 1989, Munich the point i made Wiggy was a national league rider with Weymouth who reached the 1982 british final.Was a place for the underdog then. You fail to understand what i said.The costs are not the same now,because a rider has to travel more.Back when you are talking about a rider could get almost to the Final just by riding in England.Now tell me the costs are the same as travelling to Latvia,Italy or Ukraine as it would be to travel to Poole or Birmingham.... Good point maybe that shows you how in Britain we have fell behind are league was the bees knees now its just a distraction.I think when the g.ps first come into action thats where the long term planning should of come into play.Its a shame because in my lifetime i dont see are leagues prospering and recovering who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 YOU are right Iris ... British Final, Commonwealth Final (in England every year) and Inter-Continental Final frequently here too. Not much travelling there. Even the Eastern bloc didn't go too far before competing in the Continental Final. Or the Scandinavians. And it just isn't the cost to the riders. For many years I sat through meetings of the CCP at the FIM Congress when they allocated World Championship places and venues. Each year it became harder and harder to find countries willing to fund early qualifying rounds knowing that they would lose a stack of money. Which is why the whole process became more condensed even before the SGP was introduced. And you cannot deny that it is possible to get through. Look at Antonio Lindback, he has achieved in two years ion the trot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 YOU are right Iris ... British Final, Commonwealth Final (in England every year) and Inter-Continental Final frequently here too. Not much travelling there. Even the Eastern bloc didn't go too far before competing in the Continental Final. Or the Scandinavians. And it just isn't the cost to the riders. For many years I sat through meetings of the CCP at the FIM Congress when they allocated World Championship places and venues. Each year it became harder and harder to find countries willing to fund early qualifying rounds knowing that they would lose a stack of money. Which is why the whole process became more condensed even before the SGP was introduced. And you cannot deny that it is possible to get through. Look at Antonio Lindback, he has achieved in two years ion the trot. That is what some here fail to understand.If we had this open World Championship that Parsloes dreams of as being the only true "World Championship" worth the title.What happens if Argentina(which they would have every right to, surely?) applies for a round?How does Parsloes think even decent EL standard riders could fund a trip?And what about the rising young teenager in his first year who manages to get through the British qualies only to find he has won himself a spot in South America for the next round......it doesn't work looking at other sports and saying this is how they do it,why don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 That is what some here fail to understand.If we had this open World Championship that Parsloes dreams of as being the only true "World Championship" worth the title.What happens if Argentina(which they would have every right to, surely?) applies for a round?How does Parsloes think even decent EL standard riders could fund a trip?And what about the rising young teenager in his first year who manages to get through the British qualies only to find he has won himself a spot in South America for the next round......it doesn't work looking at other sports and saying this is how they do it,why don't we? These ae NOT arguments in any way in favour of the grossly inadequate system we have now! There's no Argentina GP (nor indeed an Australian or USA GP for that matter..)! And whoever said (not I..) that they'd be such disparity in where riders had to race qualifiers... What's wrong with the GP system is the 'Rossi and Parfett' factor...: ie that it merely protects the status quo!! No young riders need to concern themselves with where they might have to travel to qualify...: coz it ain't happening is it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 WHAT has the lack of a GP in Argentina, Australia or the USA got to do with it? Fortunately scores of riders young and not so young disagree with you and set about trying to qualify. Perhaps you should tell them there is no point coz it an't happening. As I said earlier, the case of Lindback suggests otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 That is what some here fail to understand.If we had this open World Championship that Parsloes dreams of as being the only true "World Championship" worth the title.What happens if Argentina(which they would have every right to, surely?) applies for a round?How does Parsloes think even decent EL standard riders could fund a trip?And what about the rising young teenager in his first year who manages to get through the British qualies only to find he has won himself a spot in South America for the next round......it doesn't work looking at other sports and saying this is how they do it,why don't we? It looks like you said common sense when you explain it financially its impossible. The point i made was our league was the dogs b.......... s at one time now we in Britain have no real say anymore we are not a force.Sweden and Poland have better leagues.Example AUTREY And later PENHALL had to ride in Britain because our league was miles in front of everybody elses.Now we are a bit of a also ran in world speedway no real influence, have one event Cardiff thats your lot.Overall ive always maintained the GPS overall hasnt been great for british speedway overall as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 These ae NOT arguments in any way in favour of the grossly inadequate system we have now! There's no Argentina GP (nor indeed an Australian or USA GP for that matter..)! And whoever said (not I..) that they'd be such disparity in where riders had to race qualifiers... What's wrong with the GP system is the 'Rossi and Parfett' factor...: ie that it merely protects the status quo!! No young riders need to concern themselves with where they might have to travel to qualify...: coz it ain't happening is it!! It is only "grossly inadequate" in your opinion.Any rider who has a fair chance of doing anything in the GPs and plenty of others who have next to no chance of doing anything all have the chance to qualify.You seem to be asking "why aren't more riders who have no chance being let in?".Quite frankly you seem to be fighting a cause that only exists in your mind and not one that any of the riders are fighting for..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Fortunately scores of riders young and not so young disagree with you and set about trying to qualify. Perhaps you should tell them there is no point coz it an't happening. As I said earlier, the case of Lindback suggests otherwise. But the fact that Lindback Qualifies shows how bad the system is , Harris was only 2 points better over 11 GP results but gets a free entry because he's British, Harris's inclusion only shows that there's no point trying to qualify as the same old faces will get the places. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 But the fact that Lindback Qualifies shows how bad the system is , Harris was only 2 points better over 11 GP results but gets a free entry because he's British, Harris's inclusion only shows that there's no point trying to qualify as the same old faces will get the places. Great point MARK and fair play i say to Lindback, it does show the system is flawed though. I argue for it to be fairer yet all of them in it i am happy with.The only 3 who are not in the series who i want in it are WARD, LAGUTA, BATCHELOR.But would a Michael Lee like talent get a chance at 17or 18 now very unlikely as the system stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 It is only "grossly inadequate" in your opinion.Any rider who has a fair chance of doing anything in the GPs and plenty of others who have next to no chance of doing anything all have the chance to qualify.You seem to be asking "why aren't more riders who have no chance being let in?".Quite frankly you seem to be fighting a cause that only exists in your mind and not one that any of the riders are fighting for..... Hmm, well I can think of several riders in recent years who've declared their intention NOT to try and qualify. And Darcy Ward has just opted out of taking part even when given a place. So there clearly IS something wrong... But the fact that Lindback Qualifies shows how bad the system is , Harris was only 2 points better over 11 GP results but gets a free entry because he's British, Harris's inclusion only shows that there's no point trying to qualify as the same old faces will get the places. Absolutely - sums it up completely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hmm, well I can think of several riders in recent years who've declared their intention NOT to try and qualify. And Darcy Ward has just opted out of taking part even when given a place. So there clearly IS something wrong... . No-one is saying the GPs are faultless.We have been there before.But that has absolutely nothing to do with your argument.Darcy was IN the qualifying system and FAILED to get through...... So what are you arguing about?You now seem to be saying because Argentina do not have a GP they shouldn't have a round in your fantasy World Championship.I guess you want to go back to the old system where most riders are in the quali's and most rounds are held in England?Hardly a "World" Championship is it?I remember a few years ago when Ivan Mauger held a round of the Longtrack series in NZ and a few Europeans moaned,one it seems from Ivans statement about the fact that he wouldn't win his title in front of his own fans.Mauger said he never had the chance to win the title in front of his own fans.So if you want a true World Championship why shouldn't NZ,Australia and Argentina be allowed to host rounds.And by that i mean international rounds,not just national rounds of your World Championship.And how do you think these young riders will be able to pay for these trips 1,000s of miles away from home?Because it canT truly be called a World Championship can it,if all the rounds are in Europe,preferably near England to cut the costs a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 You now seem to be saying because Argentina do not have a GP they shouldn't have a round in your fantasy World Championship. Er, I was certainly NOT saying that! I mentioned Argentina because you used it as an example of a place you say (apparently) young riders might have to journey to in order to qualify for a World Championship should we still have one! Seemed a rather spurious point so I merely pointed out that in the current SGP system there is NOT an Argentina GP so I can't really buy your example as being anything other than attempting to argue a point which doesn't exist..! The lack of US and Australian GPs is more serious bearing in mind two of the last three World Champs have been from those two countries!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 NEW Zealand riders won 12 World titles between 1954 and 1979 but they never had a World Final. Bjarne Pedersen and Antonio Lindback are both in the GP this year because they went thorough the qualifying rounds and finished in the top three of the GP CHallenge. As did Lindback, Laguta and Lindgren in 2010. Zetterstrom and Holder before them and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I mentioned Argentina because you used it as an example of a place you say (apparently) young riders might have to journey to in order to qualify for a World Championship should we still have one! What did that there Hancock bloke just win then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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