WIE-JA Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hmm, how can you say Darts is pointless..? How do you think they stick in the board then..??!! Good Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'll agree with that. Speedway sells and promotes itself too cheaply. There is no glamour in its promotion or making the general public believe that they must be there. Look at what has happened in darts. A more piontless and dull sport would be hard to find but it has been promoted very well over the last few years. I agree there's a lack of glamour but don't equate that with it needing to lose its working class roots. If one looks back to the sport's heyday it was attended by the masses but was served up with plenty of glamour.. Film stars invited to present trophies; much razzamataz, showbiz-style stunts etc. What happens now is promoters don't really promote nearly enough and too much time spent on rules and less on excitement.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 AM I missing something? Aren't there still qualifying rounds, starting in Australia next month. Hardly a closed shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 AM I missing something? Aren't there still qualifying rounds, starting in Australia next month. Hardly a closed shop. AM I missing something? Aren't there still qualifying rounds, starting in Australia next month. Hardly a closed shop. In the old world championships,everyone had a chance a chance like the Fa Cup to go to the final.A level playing field it isnt like that now is it.It will probably be the same top 8 again and basically 11 are guaranteed for the next year.Needs looking at i think things are going stale also Ward should of been in this years series.For the good of the sport they should of made it attractive anough for him not to miss it .Again Speedway backward in there way of thinking you wouldnt have a champions league without Barca in it would you.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 In the old world championships,everyone had a chance a chance No they didn't. There were quarter finals for the British riders to go through to the British Final which in the later years only started at semi-finals but it never gave all riders a chance to qualify for the World Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 No they didn't. There were quarter finals for the British riders to go through to the British Final which in the later years only started at semi-finals but it never gave all riders a chance to qualify for the World Final. Basically going back to my youth there were loads of just world championships rounds i see alot of them at Swindon never just started at quarter stages.I remember Phil Crump who was even a aussie[was aloud then] riding in one of them in1973 .Also even some juniors even got a go if there were injuries ect and there were gaps in the fields.What i am saying now it is a closed shop,down to finance and in affect only 5 or 6 places going for the next years series.Quite closed wouldnt you say,going back to the old system now you wouldnt get a Martin yeates Simon Wigg, Paul Thorp lower league riders mixing with the best in the later stages of the world championships would you.You think in the late 60s and early 70s there always generally between 13 to 18 teams then in the british league then alot more english riders then work the numbers out.Wasnt 1974? eric boocock won was the last year that there were not just englishman in a British Final? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Basically going back to my youth there were loads of just world championships rounds i see alot of them at Swindon never just started at quarter stages.I remember Phil Crump who was even a aussie[was aloud then] riding in one of them in1973 .Also even some juniors even got a go if there were injuries ect and there were gaps in the fields.What i am saying now it is a closed shop,down to finance and in affect only 5 or 6 places going for the next years series.Quite closed wouldnt you say,going back to the old system now you wouldnt get a Martin yeates Simon Wigg, Paul Thorp lower league riders mixing with the best in the later stages of the world championships would you.You think in the late 60s and early 70s there always generally between 13 to 18 teams then in the british league then alot more english riders then work the numbers out.Wasnt 1974? eric boocock won was the last year that there were not just englishman in a British Final? You mean the multi World Longtack Champion and bloke that finnished 2nd at Munich in 1989?. Paul Thorpe who did Englnand pround in th World Pairs Champinship.Better do a bit of research Sidney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 No they didn't. There were quarter finals for the British riders to go through to the British Final which in the later years only started at semi-finals but it never gave all riders a chance to qualify for the World Final. Clutching at strawsa now... Anyone who was of a good league-racing standard in the British Leagues did indeed get a chance to progress in the World Championships... A novice in his first year in the top division in John Louis in 1972 went all the way to 4th. spot in the overall championship... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Clutching at strawsa now... Anyone who was of a good league-racing standard in the British Leagues did indeed get a chance to progress in the World Championships... A novice in his first year in the top division in John Louis in 1972 went all the way to 4th. spot in the overall championship... Ohh! So now you've moved the goalposts from everyone to those with 'a good legue standard'. Kepp grasping Parsloes, keep grasping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 As most of us have realised, the British Leagues are slipping down the rankings in World Speedway, and yet the qualifying process for the World Championship still exists for those that want to be a part of it. The UK doesn't hold as many rounds as it used to do, but that fits with the lack of talent in the Nation. I seriously doubt that any Brit has been held back from the GP series in recent years due to the more limited qualifying rounds... Parsloes current favourite reason for dissing the SGP is the fact that Darcy Ward chose not to compete in 2012....This is the same Darcy Ward who exited the SGP qualifying system at one of the 3 semi finals in 2011 which didn't even have the best riders in the World involved, and which left him rated below such notables as Buczkowski, Golubovski, Monberg, Ruud and Hansen.... Don't get me wrong, Darcy is class and would probably have added something to the SGP series, but the fact that he failed so miserably in the qualifying system seems to be lost on Parsloes who claims this as a failing of the GP series....Would Darcy have been invited into an old style World Final? Ermmm...No! Yet he was invited into 2 of the SGP meetings in 2011 and offered a chance to be a full time member of the 2012 series..... You have to hate a system which is soooo harsh on the young guns and offers them no chances..... Of course, you could argue that Darcy would have had a better chance in 2012 with the old system (if you ignore the fact that he was offered that chance in the GP system) but even Parsloes himself seems to accept a system that uses qualifying systems from the year before if the following definition of a "true" world championship is accepted... One in which anyone with the ability to do so has a chance of competing in, in the year in question (obviously something like the FIFA World Cup, qualifying starts in the year before...); and is not kept out of it because it's a 'closed shop' or entirely dependent on money... Rather like the World Championship Speedway had for decades...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 WELL put Henry ... the FIM still allocate places in the qualifying rounds for the GP Challenge just as they did for the old style World Championship and it is up to individual countries to determine how their riders qualify for those places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 You mean the multi World Longtack Champion and bloke that finnished 2nd at Munich in 1989?. Paul Thorpe who did Englnand pround in th World Pairs Champinship.Better do a bit of research Sidney. I think you ought to go and do a bit of research WIE JA Simon Wigg [in1982] QUALIFIED for his first british final was then a national league rider at the time grasstrack and longtrack was then his main priority.Thorp i think was a double up rider at the time also Yeates has always been mainly a national league rider.The YEARS are a bit different1982 or when you said1989 only a seven year gap?Thorp went on and if anything underachieved what i am am saying is when Wigg qualified for a british final it was a hell of a achievement he had only been riding league racing for a year and a bit.There was a chance for a underdog then and well had you forgot WIE JA? that Wigg was not a star then in 1982 just starting out in his great career .1989 he didnt start at level did he? hard work and talent got him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I agree with HenryW aswell, but i also think Sidney has a point in that too many riders are guaranteed a place in the SGP. Basically top 8+ Harris and Lindgren seems to be a guaranteed a place. Imo i would reduce the permanent wildcards to one and also reduce the number of guaranteed places from 8 to 5 or 6. Then i would have the rest qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 WELL put Henry ... the FIM still allocate places in the qualifying rounds for the GP Challenge just as they did for the old style World Championship and it is up to individual countries to determine how their riders qualify for those places. You can word it up differently, but really the truth is it will nearly be the same top 8 again and the next 3 spots will be given to people like Bjerre ex],who maybe again outside of the top 8.So in truth out of hundreds of speedway riders there will be a opportunity for probably only 5 or 6 new faces to ride in a world championship.Snooker now is a great example that Speedway can look at not a closed shop the rankings change on a weekly basics and there are opportunities for EVERYONE to qualify and play in every event. I agree with HenryW aswell, but i also think Sidney has a point in that too many riders are guaranteed a place in the SGP. Basically top 8+ Harris and Lindgren seems to be a guaranteed a place. Imo i would reduce the permanent wildcards to one and also reduce the number of guaranteed places from 8 to 5 or 6. Then i would have the rest qualify. Funny thing is Ghostwalker i want those riders you named in it,i want to see the best plusWard but Parsloes point is not everyone in there career now will have a fair chance.In words the system is flawed and is a bit of a closed shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Ohh! So now you've moved the goalposts from everyone to those with 'a good legue standard'. Kepp grasping Parsloes, keep grasping. Alright let's use a specific example. This lot contested a GB qualifying round at Crayford in 1981: 1st. Barry Thomas (Crayford) 13; 2nd. Ian Gledhill (Mildenhall) 12 (after r/o); 3rd. Dave Morton (Sheffield) 12; 4th. Dave Perks (Oxford) 12; 5th. Tim Hunt (Ipswich) 11; 6th. Colin Richardson (Wimbledon) 11; 7th. Mark Courtney (Middlesborough) 8; 8th. Dave Kennett (Eastbourne) 8; 9th. Denzil Kent (Canterbury) 7; 10th. Rob Henry (Mildenhall) 7; 11th. Barney Kennett (Canterbury) 6; 12th. Alan Sage (Crayford) 5; 13th.= Richard Knight (Mildenhall) 3; 13th.= Steve Finch (Ellesmere Port) 3; 15th. = Peter Johns (Wimbledon) 1; 15th.= Ian Williams (Wimbledon) 1 Now can you see (though you're so blinkered and duplicitous I doubt it...) the massive difference between the way the championship race used to be and the virtually closed shop it's now become..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 BUT there is nothing to stop the British from staging such a qualifying round en route to the British Final and then on to the GP Challenge and qualification for the SGP itself. It is up to individual countries to determine how their riders qualify for the final stages... that much hasn't changed over the years. The fact is that such rounds have proved too costly to stage and have been binned but if the British wanted to give every licensed rider a chance to take part they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 The fact is that such rounds have proved too costly to stage and have been binned but if the British wanted to give every licensed rider a chance to take part they could. Hardly worth it for the 3 riders that might make it to the SGP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 No they didn't. There were quarter finals for the British riders to go through to the British Final which in the later years only started at semi-finals but it never gave all riders a chance to qualify for the World Final. Looked back over the years the route to the BRITISH FINAL in 1979. for example was 5- preliminary ROUNDS 18- BRITISH QUALIFYING ROUNDS. LEADING to the top 32- SCORERS going through to the 2 - BRITISH SEMI FINALS 16- GOING THROUGH TO THE BRITISH FINAL 8- GOING THROUGH TO THE COMMONWEALTH . FINAL .at white city. So as you can see there were rounds before the semi finals. I THINK 1982 was the first year the top 32 british riders were seeded through to the two semi finals.IT CERTAINLY isnt like that now is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIE-JA Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Looked back over the years the route to the BRITISH FINAL in 1979. for example was 5- preliminary ROUNDS 18- BRITISH QUALIFYING ROUNDS. LEADING to the top 32- SCORERS going through to the 2 - BRITISH SEMI FINALS 16- GOING THROUGH TO THE BRITISH FINAL 8- GOING THROUGH TO THE COMMONWEALTH . FINAL .at white city. So as you can see there were rounds before the semi finals. I THINK 1982 was the first year the top 32 british riders were seeded through to the two semi finals.IT CERTAINLY isnt like that now is it? And I bet there were still people moaning that not enough riders got a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hardly worth it for the 3 riders that might make it to the SGP. TELL that to those who have made it through in recent years. They obviously thought it was worth it. As must all those who enter the qualifying rounds each year. The fact is it is not a closed shop. Tough to get into maybe but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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