Phil Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Due to the some attacks on other posters this topic is being locked for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted April 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) http://www.vintagesp.../Maitland3.html This is part of what Johnnie Hoskins writes in the article. Click on the link to read it in full. “I arrived at West Maitland in the afternoon, called a sleepy cabit at the exit and with an assumed cofidence asked to be taken to a moderately good hotel. “And here the fans took a hand.Jogging along clippety clop in the cab behind an aged nag I spotted on the pavement two old friends, Percy Weedon and his partner from Darwin. “They paid the cabby, introduced me to the hotel proprietor and welcomed me like a long lost brother. They owned the local picture show. Soon I was running a big charity sports programme, boxingm street stalls, the lot, and made a huge success of it. “Next came a vacant secrtearyship for the local Show grounds and Annual Agricultural Show. “I bough a motor cycle and proposed motor cycle sports on the Show ground. “The idea was turned down flat by the Committee, but I persevered. As a last chance I risked my job by getting some twenty or more of the lads on their motor bikes to meet me for a spin one Sunday morning on the Show Ground trotting track which was used at the Annual Show. “The noise brought Committee men out of their beds and soon a crowd assembled. I raced with the lads once and once only. They went past me on my pre First War Triumph so fast, so dangerously close, I vowed never again. That is one vow I’ve kept. CARNIVAL In mid-summer of 1923 the first “Electric Light Carnival” featuring “dancing on the green and motor cycle racing was staged before a huge crowd. Soon we changed the name to “Speedway” and ran weekly. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Edited April 8, 2012 by olddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raceleader Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 http://www.vintagesp.../Maitland3.html This is part of what Johnnie Hoskins writes in the article. Click on the link to read it in full. “I arrived at West Maitland in the afternoon, called a sleepy cabit at the exit and with an assumed cofidence asked to be taken to a moderately good hotel. “And here the fans took a hand.Jogging along clippety clop in the cab behind an aged nag I spotted on the pavement two old friends, Percy Weedon and his partner from Darwin. “They paid the cabby, introduced me to the hotel proprietor and welcomed me like a long lost brother. They owned the local picture show. Soon I was running a big charity sports programme, boxingm street stalls, the lot, and made a huge success of it. “Next came a vacant secrtearyship for the local Show grounds and Annual Agricultural Show. “I bough a motor cycle and proposed motor cycle sports on the Show ground. “The idea was turned down flat by the Committee, but I persevered. As a last chance I risked my job by getting some twenty or more of the lads on their motor bikes to meet me for a spin one Sunday morning on the Show Ground trotting track which was used at the Annual Show. “The noise brought Committee men out of their beds and soon a crowd assembled. I raced with the lads once and once only. They went past me on my pre First War Triumph so fast, so dangerously close, I vowed never again. That is one vow I’ve kept. CARNIVAL In mid-summer of 1923 the first “Electric Light Carnival” featuring “dancing on the green and motor cycle racing was staged before a huge crowd. Soon we changed the name to “Speedway” and ran weekly. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Not for the first time I am confused by what the poster strives for and also by reading the article by Johnnie Hoskins. What confused me was references to mid summer as I aligned that to mean around July and August rather than the first meeting at West Maitland in December 1923. Then it clicked home that Johnnie's mention of summer was in regard to the season in Australia which coincides with our winter, so I now can see he did mean the months we regard as winter which makes December mid-summer in Australia. I also see the poster grabbed on just one line as his focal point - Hoskins claim to the use of the word speedway. But overall it was a nice entertaining writing by Johnnie, which looks as though it may have been originally used in a Long Eaton programme at some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTom Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 If my memory serves me correctly it appeared in the yearly speedway handbook in the sixties. Tiger Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennylane Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) http://www.vintagesp.../Maitland3.html This is part of what Johnnie Hoskins writes in the article. Click on the link to read it in full. “I arrived at West Maitland in the afternoon, called a sleepy cabit at the exit and with an assumed cofidence asked to be taken to a moderately good hotel. “And here the fans took a hand.Jogging along clippety clop in the cab behind an aged nag I spotted on the pavement two old friends, Percy Weedon and his partner from Darwin. “They paid the cabby, introduced me to the hotel proprietor and welcomed me like a long lost brother. They owned the local picture show. Soon I was running a big charity sports programme, boxingm street stalls, the lot, and made a huge success of it. “Next came a vacant secrtearyship for the local Show grounds and Annual Agricultural Show. “I bough a motor cycle and proposed motor cycle sports on the Show ground. “The idea was turned down flat by the Committee, but I persevered. As a last chance I risked my job by getting some twenty or more of the lads on their motor bikes to meet me for a spin one Sunday morning on the Show Ground trotting track which was used at the Annual Show. “The noise brought Committee men out of their beds and soon a crowd assembled. I raced with the lads once and once only. They went past me on my pre First War Triumph so fast, so dangerously close, I vowed never again. That is one vow I’ve kept. CARNIVAL In mid-summer of 1923 the first “Electric Light Carnival” featuring “dancing on the green and motor cycle racing was staged before a huge crowd. Soon we changed the name to “Speedway” and ran weekly. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT How nice to read Johnnie Hoskins memories of Maitland in December 1923. And we have the confidence of knowing that he was also actually there. It's what they term a primary source of reference on a subject. Edited April 12, 2012 by kennylane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyguy Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Johnnie Hoskins wrote a book (maybe a couple) in the early 1930s. Is there any reference to the Maitland meeting in December 1923? If so, what did he say? Maybe that could help to sort out this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatDave Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) How nice to read Johnnie Hoskins memories of Maitland in December 1923. And we have the confidence of knowing that he was also actually there. It's what they term a primary source of reference on a subject. Doubtless those who can find nothing better to do than denigrate the great man's achievements by bringing up spurious references to prior events which may or may not have taken place will complain about this as well; says a lot more about them than about JH. Edited April 13, 2012 by BigFatDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Doubtless those who can find nothing better to do than denigrate the great man's achievements by bringing up spurious references to prior events which may or may not have taken place will complain about this as well; says a lot more about them than about JH. No one has tried to denigrate Johnnie Hoskins' achievements, people have merely tried to explain the truth to you rather than the myth that developed, largely on the back of the great man himself. Hoskins was a wonderful showman and did more than anyone in speedway early days but his claim to have invented the sport was always just typical Hoskins showmanship. It is the ones trying to credit Hoskins with this inventing speedway nonsense that are doing the man a disservice and causing debate like this. Accept Hoskins for what he did achieve, and those achievments are monumental but dont try and give him credit for something that is 100% not true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted April 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Johnnie Hoskins wrote a book (maybe a couple) in the early 1930s. Is there any reference to the Maitland meeting in December 1923? If so, what did he say? Maybe that could help to sort out this matter? That is a good idea. Does anyone have a copy of Johnnie's 1930s book they could quote - if it mentions Maitland in 1923. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 No one has tried to denigrate Johnnie Hoskins' achievements, people have merely tried to explain the truth to you rather than the myth that developed, largely on the back of the great man himself. Hoskins was a wonderful showman and did more than anyone in speedway early days but his claim to have invented the sport was always just typical Hoskins showmanship. It is the ones trying to credit Hoskins with this inventing speedway nonsense that are doing the man a disservice and causing debate like this. Accept Hoskins for what he did achieve, and those achievments are monumental but dont try and give him credit for something that is 100% not true Well said I refer to the following from post 94 by Ross Garrigan on the now closed Maitland Speedway Anniversary thread :- “I have already mentioned that it wasn't Hoskins who "staged" the motor cycle racing which took place on the Maitland Showground on December 15, 1923. As proof, I submit this extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923, the week leading up to the said carnival. The "club" referred to is the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club: - "On Saturday next, the club will hold motor cycle races, in conjunction with other sports, under the electric light on the Maitland Showground in aid of the Maitland Orphanage and H.R.A. and H. Association. The races are open to all members of recognised motor cycle clubs.." That item appeared in the newspaper column of the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. Then followed the list of club officials who would conduct the racing”. Is anyone on here seriously doubting the veracity of the above and if so let them state the documented facts and their source which show the above to be “spurious”. Just because Johnny Hoskins claimed to have invented Speedway, as alleged by some on here, that is not proof in itself and is certainly not supported by contemporary news reports of the time. BFD have you bothered to check the Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923 or are you more concerned with trolling on here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Exactly.We have seen enough evidence to see that Hoskins didn't invent speedway,even if he might state so in his book.It might be that unlikely as it seems seeing as at least one of the riders at Maitland had ridden in similar events elsewhere,Hoskins didn't know about previous meetings at other tracks.That is being kind.Did he attach the 'speedway' name to the sport?That i guess is a possibility,but 'speedway racing' as a term was being used for motorsports held at American Speedways before Hoskins started in Maitland.Maybe he used it for this particular sport specifically,but it isn't a big deal if he just attached..a general name to a specific sport.And it didn't become the universally used name in the first years.That said,i don't see anyone who thinks Hoskins didn't play a major part in the rise of the sport internationally.Like others have said,the main problem comes from people trying to use spurious evidence or misinterpret statements to try to claim something that has been disproved.It is rather like listening to people trying to claim the earth is flat........ Edited April 13, 2012 by iris123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Exactly.We have seen enough evidence to see that Hoskins didn't invent speedway,even if he might state so in his book. This discussion is entering the realms of a religious debate, and I suspect it doesn't matter to some how much evidence is presented, However, whilst the Johnnie Hoskins article is an interesting ancedote (even if it does seem overly romanticised), it actually doesn't shed any further light on the subject. Edited April 13, 2012 by Humphrey Appleby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think everyone should agree to disagree on this one. The subject has just about been done to death on BOTH sides of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennylane Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Or you could substitute it for this Tommy Knudsen - the man who won the first ever Speedway race at Wembley Stadium in September 1981. Both true, you have merely read into the statement incorrectly Not strictly correct. That should read 'Tommy Knudsen - the man who won the first race at Wembley Stadium in September 1981.' The FIRST EVER race was won at the opening meeting at Wembley in 1928. Bill Crampton at Maitland in December 1923 looks to have won the FIRST EVER SPEEDWAY RACE both at the Australian track and in the history of speedway. Due to the some attacks on other posters this topic is being locked for the time being. Nice to be back on track with most of the 'Johnnie Hoskins On Maitland 1923' brought over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raceleader Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 For myself I would like to know what Johnnie Hoskins may have written about Maitland and what happened December 1923 in one of his books. But it appears that nobody has a book which they can quote. What were his early book titles anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted April 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Here's an interesting message I have just seen posted elsewhere: JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "WebbT" <binbooks@...> wrote: This debate on the word "Speedway" has come up many times before. The fact is that the word "speedway' relating to Maitland appeared on an adverisement for the first time late in 1924. Even then it is not clear if "speedway" refers to the speedway track or the racing that took place there. Speedway also was used to refer to trotting tracks as in Albert Park, Melbourne in 1916, also in the USA for freeways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Jack,we have been here before.I posted a link to one of,maybe the earliest reference to 'speedway racing'.Indianapolis 1909.Not specific to motorbikes,just a general term for the motorised racing at Indianapolis Speedway.So your reference to USA freeways is misleading and Melbourne is obviously quite afew years after,although at least shows that the term had travelled over to Oz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Indianapolis-motor-speedway_1909-0923.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olddon Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Jack,we have been here before.I posted a link to one of,maybe the earliest reference to 'speedway racing'.Indianapolis 1909.Not specific to motorbikes,just a general term for the motorised racing at Indianapolis Speedway.So your reference to USA freeways is misleading and Melbourne is obviously quite afew years after,although at least shows that the term had travelled over to Oz. http://en.wikipedia....y_1909-0923.jpg Thanks for stirring my memory about this and I do recall what you say. The actual quote I posted is not from my own research but is that of another historian and a site where I am also a member. I just brought it up here as I thought it contributed to the debate in progress. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Post deleted. Edited April 15, 2012 by miro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennylane Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Johnnie Hoskins wrote a book (maybe a couple) in the early 1930s. Is there any reference to the Maitland meeting in December 1923? If so, what did he say? Maybe that could help to sort out this matter? I am fairly certain that in his book 'Thrilling the Million' that Tom Stenner credits Johnny Hoskins with the start of speedway at West Maitland in December 1923. It's hard for me to be certain now because it was many, many moons ago that I read the book which was published around 1934. One thing that still stands out in my mind from the book is an amazing crash photo taken at High Beech and featuring, so I recall, Ron Johnson and Bobby Blake. Be that as it may, we still need to trace one of Johnny's early books to see if he has anything to say on this ongoing and engrossing topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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