Maitland Speedway Anniversary

[Ross Garrigan]

There is one sentence concerning Maitland in the extract from the Guinness Book of Records kennylane posted, namely "The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923."

 

There are three historically inaccurate points in that one sentence. Firstly, organised motor cycle racing on small tracks had taken place in Australia for many years pre-Maitland. Secondly, the first carnival held at Maitland which featured motor cycle racing was in December 1923, NOT November. Thirdly, mention is made that the said carnival took place at the annual show. That is nonsense, the Maitland Show was held in March. I wonder what source of reference was used for the Maitland information shown in the book.

 

Re the size of the Maitland track, five laps equalled two miles. I have filed away somewhere a wonderful aerial photo taken of the Maitland track in the 1930s.

 

In Australian speedway historical writings, the term "short/small track" is used to distinguish that type of motor cycle racing activity from that which was also taking place on the large racecourses.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[olddon]

From the Guiness Book of Records 1986:

SPEEDWAY ORIGINS: Motorcycle racing on large dirt track surfaces has been traced back to 1902 in the United States. The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923. The sport evolved in Great Britain with small diameter track racing at Droylsden, Greater Manchester on 25 June 1927 and a cinder track event at High Beech, Essex on 19 Feb 1928.

Strange.....wonder what they consider a "short track",as West Maitland in 1923 wouldn't really qualify surely?

There is one sentence concerning Maitland in the extract from the Guinness Book of Records kennylane posted, namely "The first organised ‘short track’ races were at the West Maitland (New South Wales Australia) Agricultural Show in November 1923."

 

There are three historically inaccurate points in that one sentence. Firstly, organised motor cycle racing on small tracks had taken place in Australia for many years pre-Maitland. Secondly, the first carnival held at Maitland which featured motor cycle racing was in December 1923, NOT November. Thirdly, mention is made that the said carnival took place at the annual show. That is nonsense, the Maitland Show was held in March. I wonder what source of reference was used for the Maitland information shown in the book.

 

Re the size of the Maitland track, five laps equalled two miles. I have filed away somewhere a wonderful aerial photo taken of the Maitland track in the 1930s.

 

In Australian speedway historical writings, the term "short/small track" is used to distinguish that type of motor cycle racing activity from that which was also taking place on the large racecourses.

 

I fully agree with Iris123 and Ross. The comments from the Guiness Book of Records 1986 are ridiculous. I wonder if it was ever corrected in future yearly editions? I am unsure how to find out but it must have been disputed.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[Ross Garrigan]

I fully agree with Iris123 and Ross. The comments from the Guiness Book of Records 1986 are ridiculous. I wonder if it was ever corrected in future yearly editions? I am unsure how to find out but it must have been disputed.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

Jack hits the nail on the head, what appeared in that Guinness Book of Records certainly is "ridiculous". The problem people such as myself continually encounter is that comments such as appear in the said book are still appearing today. I was accused on one discussion group a week or so ago of "attacking" writer Peter Oakes when I pointed out the errors in his recent item on Maitland which appeared in Speedway Star. It was not an attack on a person, what I was doing was correcting the mistakes.

 

I know I keep harking back to Ian Hoskins, but he keeps saying and writing things about Maitland which are historically inaccurate. When inaccuracies concerning what happened at Maitland in 1923-24 , and the period leading up to that season, keep appearing in print in books, magazines and on the Internet, the myths will just keep spreading.

 

I have enjoyed being part of this discussion and it's time for me to move on. Accept what I have written or discount it, that is up to the individual.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[raceleader]

As a new arrival to this sort of discussion I find it intriguing and enlightening in regard to what all sides put across but my consensus at the moment is to favour what Ross Garrigan gives as it is relied upon records and newspaper researches whereas BigFatDave, kennylane and Jack Keen, although doubtless sincere in what they believe, have not provided enough solid evidence to contradict Ross. For my part, I am siding with his comments and findings on the matter that Johnnie Hoskins did not start speedway at West Maitland in December 1923. This is a good sector on the site and I do enjoy reading the various viewpoints that come forward.

[Ross Garrigan]

I just want to add a few points.

 

I have shown during the discussion that just because something appears on a website it doesn't mean it is fact. My example was what appeared in a Johnnie Hoskins tribute on a Scottish website. I have provided proof of what I believe happened during the first season motor cycles raced at Maitland and the period in Australian motor cycle racing history leading up to that season.

 

The extract from the Guinness Book of Records proves that just because something appears in a book or magazine it isn't therefore fact. All I ask is that anyone who doesn't accept my argument on this thread just ask themselves what proof they have which discounts my assertions.

 

I first became interested in speedway in the early 1960s here in Brisbane. From then until about a decade or so ago I believed Johnnie Hoskins had started/invented speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923. Nobody in all those years had publically disputed the fact, and that's why everybody believed that it happened. At the time that Guinness Book of Records edition mentioned on this thread was published, what it contained on Maitland would have been accepted by the large percentage of people who read it. In my mind at that time I had this mental picture of Johnnie having once had the bright new idea of trying out motor cycles on a small track. That's why I can understand today why many still have the view that Johnnie started/invented motor cycle racing on a small track at Maitland.

 

I noticed on I think oldtimespeedway a posting saying that the rider who won the very first motor cycle race on that December 15, 1923 programme, Bill Crampton, should be credited with winning the very first speedway race staged. I wonder if the person who wrote that knows that when Bill rode on the Maitland Show Ground track that evening he was doing exactly what he had done for quite some time on show grounds and sports grounds in the Hunter Valley.

 

I have mentioned that even before motor cycles had raced on the Maitland Show Ground a big promoter was in negotiations with the Show Society to stage a series of bicycle and motor cycle carnivals at the track during 1923-24. That promotion had even tied up a deal to do so before the motor cycles first raced there. That promotion's first meeting had been advertised before motor cycles first raced there. The man who managed the carnivals for the big promoter (Bill Dart) had already served in a managerial position at a carnival on another Hunter Valley venue (the Cessnock Show/Sports Ground) which had included motor cycles on the programme.

 

Lastly, I want to provide an extract from the report published in the Maitland Daily Mercury of the December 15, 1923 carnival. It shows that riders had previously tried the track out to make sure it was suitable for motor cycle racing, but what it also says is that those riders had ridden on similar tracks previously.

 

"For the first time motor cycle racing was introduced into the programme and the innovation proved most successful. In an exhibition ride at the last sports several riders gave the track a good test and they then expressed themselves satisfied with it. They also stated that it was better than several other tracks that have been used for this kind of sport on a number of occasions...."

 

That last sentence makes a very interesting point.

 

At no time was there any mention in the Maitland Daily Mercury newspaper during the 1923-24 season that what was taking place as regards motor cycles racing on the local show ground was "speedway". People have varying views of the definition of "speedway", but does racing on grass qualify as "speedway"? That was the racing surface at the Maitland Show Ground in 1923-24.

 

Motor cycles had raced on cinders in Australia before December 15, 1923, but that type of racing surface wasn't the norm.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[BigFatDave]

If nothing else this discussion has proved that no-one 'invented' Speedway, but it also hasn't dis-proved my opinion that Johnnie Hoskins should be regarded as the Godfather of Modern Speedway.

[Ross Garrigan]

If nothing else this discussion has proved that no-one 'invented' Speedway, but it also hasn't dis-proved my opinion that Johnnie Hoskins should be regarded as the Godfather of Modern Speedway.

 

Dave, I have no doubt that what we know as speedway today "evolved" over a period of time. Young men who owned motor cycles during the early part of the 20th century not only used them as a means of transport, but they were also keen to use them as a source of recreation and sport. Racing on roads, racecourses and sporting/show grounds was a natural consequence as they looked for places to race their machines. I even have from my research wonderful stories of men playing motor cycle football on sporting grounds and show grounds. Hill climbing was another form of sporting activity which was popular all those years ago.

 

Dave, I never set out to disprove your opinion that Johnnie Hoskins was the Godfather of Modern Speedway, and you won't get an argument from me concerning your belief. What I set out to do was put a case forward to disprove that Johnnie Hoskins did start/invent speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923.

 

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[secsy1]

Everyone is entitled to their own views on this subject, but unfortunately a few have continually undermined posters on the subject.

A few have also stated it`s time to move on, but some cannot and keep on brow beating, go, go now and stop now............lets see

[cyclone]

I have really enjoyed this thread and find the level of research by Ross Garrigan, and Norman Jacobs in particular, to be very impressive.

 

I doubt anyone will ever be able to unearth incontrovertible proof of where the first pukka speedway event took place, given the mention of earlier claims from the USA, South Africa, & England also.

 

Regarding Australia, are there any reports of when bikes without brakes are first mentioned, racing anti-clockwise on cinder surfaces, etc. ?

 

In fact when where events first advertised as Motor Cycle Speedway/ Dirt Track Racing ?

 

Re John Hoskins, imo his lasting contribution was to bring the Sport to a wider audience by the large number of venues he was involved in at their birth, together with the high profile publicity he generated for Speedway.

[olddon]

As we were saying....scroll down this page and read all about dear old Johnnie Hoskins...and read what it says about Maitland in December 1923.

 

http://www.speedway-...Years%201-5.pdf

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Edited April 3, 2012 by olddon

[BigFatDave]

Couple of interesting quotes from the programme for the inaugural NZGP; naturally Johnnie Hoskins gets a guernsey since he was born in Kiwiland:

 

Here's one about him that's indisputable - "The man who arguably invented Speedway as we know it today". Couldn't agree more, since we've been arguing about it for months!

 

Here's the opinion of Bill Buckley, the man who put his money where his mouth is and brought us the show: "Speedway has the 'Kiwi Brand' stamped all over it; it was invented by Johnnie Hoskins, a New Zealand-born Promoter, who started Motorcycle Speedway promotion in Australia in 1923".

 

That's Bill's opinion, and I'm sure he's entitled to it, and I'm equally sure that our amateur historians and self-aggrandisers on here will argue against it until they're blue in the face; much good may it do them.

[kennylane]

As we were saying....scroll down this page and read all about dear old Johnnie Hoskins...and read what it says about Maitland in December 1923.

 

http://www.speedway-...Years%201-5.pdf

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Couple of interesting quotes from the programme for the inaugural NZGP; naturally Johnnie Hoskins gets a guernsey since he was born in Kiwiland:

 

Here's one about him that's indisputable - "The man who arguably invented Speedway as we know it today". Couldn't agree more, since we've been arguing about it for months!

 

Here's the opinion of Bill Buckley, the man who put his money where his mouth is and brought us the show: "Speedway has the 'Kiwi Brand' stamped all over it; it was invented by Johnnie Hoskins, a New Zealand-born Promoter, who started Motorcycle Speedway promotion in Australia in 1923".

 

That's Bill's opinion, and I'm sure he's entitled to it, and I'm equally sure that our amateur historians and self-aggrandisers on here will argue against it until they're blue in the face; much good may it do them.

 

The very latest on an an intriguing matter. And it's all back to square one in Johnnie Hoskins favour by the look of it.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Here's the opinion of Bill Buckley, the man who put his money where his mouth is and brought us the show: "Speedway has the 'Kiwi Brand' stamped all over it; it was invented by Johnnie Hoskins, a New Zealand-born Promoter, who started Motorcycle Speedway promotion in Australia in 1923".

 

With all due respect to Bill Buckley, how much research has he actually done on the subject...?

[olddon]

With all due respect to Bill Buckley, how much research has he actually done on the subject...?

 

I feel certain that Bill Buckley's programme notes were vetted by the GP organisers? Hence the references to Johnnie Hoskins would have been cleared to be printed. I would even think - purely supposition - that they also provided him with background info for his notes?

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Edited April 4, 2012 by olddon

[Humphrey Appleby]

I feel certain that Bill Buckley's programme notes were vetted by the GP organisers? Hence the references to Johnnie Hoskins would have been cleared to be printed.

 

Which leads to the question what BSI knows about speedway history having been involved in the sport for all of 12 years?

[BigFatDave]

With all due respect to Bill Buckley, how much research has he actually done on the subject...?

A very astute man, Bill Buckley, with a great knowledge of Speedway, which is as you'd expect from someone who owns his own Speedway Stadium and finances his own country's GP, whereas how many of our amateur historians on here simply rely on a collection of dubious anecdotes culled from the internet or publish fatuous commentary designed to grind their own personal axes and denigrate the real heroes of Speedway's past in order to self-aggrandise, rather than doing the on-the-ground research that's required?

Have you seen our plaque, Humphrey, or even travelled to Maitland? Oh so easy to pooh-pooh anything from the comfort of your own lounge-room.

Edited April 5, 2012 by BigFatDave

[olddon]

As we were saying....scroll down this page and read all about dear old Johnnie Hoskins...and read what it says about Maitland in December 1923.

 

http://www.speedway-...Years%201-5.pdf

 

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

For those who have not yet - are there any ? - read the comments about Johnnie Hoskins on the South African site which I linked. here's an edited clip of it:

"Johnny S. Hoskins

The history of speedway began in Australia, when the godfather of the sport, Johnny S. Hoskins, organised the first motorcycle races on a dirt oval track at West Maitland, near Sydney, in December 1923. This event has generally been accepted as the very first speedway meeting, even though it’s a proven fact, that the Americans had pioneered motorcycle races on oval tracks as early as in 1902."

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[Humphrey Appleby]

Have you seen our plaque, Humphrey, or even travelled to Maitland?

 

I have been to Maitland, but it was before the plaque was put up. Not that going there or reading a plaque proves anything historically anyway.

 

To be honest, I've never been completely in the 'speedway was invented at Maitland' camp because years ago I remember finding some old speedway books in the library that mentioned oval motorcycle racing in the early years of the 20th century, plus of course it seems fairly improbable that nobody had the idea to ride bikes around trotting ovals in the 40 years before Maitland.

 

I did assume the Maitland meeting had some characteristic elements that could be assumed to be the precursor of modern speedway, but the contemporary newspaper accounts dug out by Ross and others appear to suggest even that wasn't the case. That's not to denigrate Maitland's place in speedway history because right or wrongly, most speedway fans believe it was the birthplace of the sport, the racing is reasonably well documented, and it's the first place that the sport's most legendary promoter started promoting. That's arguably what sets it aside from other early venues, but I think it's important to try to establish the historical facts rather than believe legend. It's not because people wish to denigate Maitland or the undeniable contribution of Johnnie Hoskins in developing the modern day sport, but because it's part of the process of historical research.

[cyclone]

A very astute man, Bill Buckley, with a great knowledge of Speedway, which is as you'd expect from someone who owns his own Speedway Stadium and finances his own country's GP, whereas how many of our amateur historians on here simply rely on a collection of dubious anecdotes culled from the internet or publish fatuous commentary designed to grind their own personal axes and denigrate the real heroes of Speedway's past in order to self-aggrandise, rather than doing the on-the-ground research that's required?

Have you seen our plaque, Humphrey, or even travelled to Maitland? Oh so easy to pooh-pooh anything from the comfort of your own lounge-room.

 

As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ?

 

I would be wary of believing that a Promoter will always be infallible in recalling events.

 

For example the race that Peter Craven lost his life, Ian Hoskins, the Edinburgh Promoter later stated that Craven started off a 20 yard handicap.

 

This was incorrect as though it was intended to be the case, the crowd that evening voiced their displeasure at the proposed handicap, and all four riders started from the gate.

 

How do I know ? - well I was standing right behind the starting gate at the front of the crowd !

 

That Ian Hoskins got this wrong can be corroborated by various people that were present that evening, including Mike Hunter (current Director of Edinburgh Speedway) and Jim Henry (current Clerk of the Course, at Armadale).

 

Of course you might choose not to believe the word of "amateur" spectators

[kennylane]

As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ?

 

I would be wary of believing that a Promoter will always be infallible in recalling events.

 

For example the race that Peter Craven lost his life, Ian Hoskins, the Edinburgh Promoter later stated that Craven started off a 20 yard handicap.

 

This was incorrect as though it was intended to be the case, the crowd that evening voiced their displeasure at the proposed handicap, and all four riders started from the gate.

 

How do I know ? - well I was standing right behind the starting gate at the front of the crowd !

 

That Ian Hoskins got this wrong can be corroborated by various people that were present that evening, including Mike Hunter (current Director of Edinburgh Speedway) and Jim Henry (current Clerk of the Course, at Armadale).

 

Of course you might choose not to believe the word of "amateur" spectators

 

You're a bit off course. Edinburgh in the early 1960s when Peter Craven tragically died and Maitland in 1923 are a long way apart. I don't quite see what this has to do with the debate on the start of speedway in Australia in December 1923. A rather unusual parallel but I am sure BFD will give his response.