berniev123 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) The National League has long lost being pure Development League in my opinion, I have been going since 1998/99 It really should be a semi professional 3rd division that allows youngsters to come in when ready and other riders who are forgotten/seriously injured in the PL to join. An expanded Midland League or Northern League is where the new riders in the 21st Century should learn their trade and then move up. Even so, Scunny have done stearling work with the resources that they have. It is the way to go for all new tracks if the money allows.....but then we can all dream as Planning Permission, etc usually does not allow it! Edited January 16, 2012 by berniev123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 The National League has long lost being pure Development League in my opinion, I have been going since 1998/99 It really should be a semi professional 3rd division that allows youngsters to come in when ready and other riders who are forgotten/seriously injured in the PL to join .  Not sure how its lost it development tag to be honest when half the team are dual development teams  If it went semi pro,which is basically what the Pl is,a lot of these teams will pull out,due to an increase in cost  Unless you sign two 10 point men your team is very. low on averages.If a team turned up in any of the other leagues looking so weak they would be facing a fine ,so why is it allowed in the national;.  Try telling that to Max Clegg,Danny Phillips, Oliver Greenwood and the others just starting out who were there again yesterday practice,practice practice ,im sure they would disagree  Or it that now the Saints have lost the scunfield tag,you aint got nowt to moan about???  It is a bit of a turnaround from one season to the next. From having Smethills at reserve and Nielson at no.8 to having novices as second strings. Don't be too down on the lads though they need your support and if you give it i'm sure they will return the gesture and next year who knows they may even win again.  And the reason Smethills was reserve?? Talent who many had described as wobblers 12 month earlier had gone above him in the averages!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 If many of the speedway supporters who post on this thread was at Scunny to watch these youngsters progress I'm sure they would have different attitudes. Seeing is believing. Yes they may wobble at some stage. But lap after lap they soon get going and to watch how determined they are gives great pleasure. For those of you that support teams in the prem just spare a thought, check I'll bet you've got a team member who had sessions at Scunny and was wobblers for a short time. Surely this has to be the way to go. In junior leagues competing against riders of the same level won't be as good a system as the Scunny one! though I do agree it is a good start, its the competative edge of the N/L that spears the riders on. I predict both Oliver Greenwood and Dan Phillips to be Scunnies next Worralls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swift Saint Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 You must be very blinkered BW if it wasnt for the management of scunny making a point and that being give youth a chance where would the NL be . if it was a solely stand alone league then how would the new riders get into speedway ,its easy they wouldnt ,example of this is when ashley morriss rode for us at the beginning, his scores reflected his ability at the time do you realy think a Dudley or Stoke would have stood by him ,i doubt it his talent would have taken longer to surface,After watching the new crop today british speedway will be better placed this year whatching new riders progressing because thats what is all about unless you have forgotten ,yes its nice to win the league but only through progression not by pounds .So i say drop the Nl and call it the development league because win or loose ill be there.PS think stuart is going for the youngest team ever that has to be applauded   Well Montie you are misinformed as far as Stoke are concerned.  Ben Reade averaged less than 3.00 last season whilst Ashley Morris averaged over 4.5 in his first season at Scunthorpe. And look at the fuss that was made because we left him out for two matches  I do not criticise what Scunthorpe are doing there has to be room in the National League for all.  At Stoke we are changing our overall club model to try and link Training Schools, Amateur Meetings, Midland League, Second halves and our senior team or teams. We are trying to put in place a career path for young Brits because we feel acutely that the sport is ignoring them to a large extent. We are trying to do what we can within the framework available.  I understand that many years of supporting Scunthorpe United has made you cynical and embittered but point your vitriol at the those in the National League that sacked British reserves not us. There is at least one club that dispensed with the services of three such riders and they are lauded as good for developing young talent!  If you want to know more about our plans for Stoke and to put details on here please call me any time. Then you can add meaning and accuracy to your statements at least as far as we are concerned.  Malcolm Vasey . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) There will always be a conflict of interests. Â Standalone tracks have to put out a reasonably experienced side in order to attract enough of a paying crowd to make it viable! Â If my local NL side Mildenhall, put a team out containing all of the riders who rode 2nd halfs there last season and had two 2nd strings Joe Jacobs and Aaron Baseby as the top 2 riders the crowds would drop by 2/3rd's and running Mildenhall speedway wouldn't be viable! Â Stoke also fall into the same category but like Mildenhall as Malcolm points out they do try and accomodate some youngsters at the bottom end of their side and are trying to create a clear path for young riders to go down with 2nd halfs, training schools etc! Â At the end of the day their isn't presently a good enough system in British speedway to develop youngsters but also speedway is about winning a race and teams can't be expected to carry youngsters not improving forever. The riders who make it normally progress quickly. If a youngsters been knocking around 2nd halfs/NL speedway since 13-16 years old and hasn't broken into PL by the time they are 20 then its a safe bet they aren't going to get any higher than they presently are! Â Last seasons NL winners Scunny are one of the best clubs for encouraging young inexperienced riders but the side they used for most of the season was made up of quite a few PL regulars albeit messrs the Worrall twins and Birks who are still fairly new to the game! Edited January 16, 2012 by 25yearfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Â Last seasons NL winners Scunny are one of the best clubs for encouraging young inexperienced riders but the side they used for most of the season was made up of quite a few PL regulars albeit messrs the Worrall twins and Birks who are still fairly new to the game! Â But PL regulars wernt when they started the season,but they developed into them,and think that is the important point,i remember a certain plymouth fan stating he wouldnt turn up to watch an awfull weak scunny team,3 months later the team he wouldnt turn to to see beat Plymouth!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Messrs Worrals and Birks were PL regulars at the start of the season but like I said in my post the riders who do make it progress quickly and these 3 talented riders have certainly done that and look like they could indeed make it! Â I'm convinced we'd have more British professional riders if we had a system like Denmark and Poland or hardly any planning restrictions like Australia but also know that good quality riders will come through whatever the system. Like I said in my last post a rider whos been riding speedway for 4-5 years since mid teens and hasn't made PL by the age of 20 is very very unlikely to make it in the future! Edited January 16, 2012 by 25yearfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backless Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Messrs Worrals and Birks were PL regulars at the start of the season..... Â While Steve had a few meetings for Scunthorpe towards the end of 2010, both Birks and Richie saw the year out in the Saints team - Richie getting most of his gigs as a replacement for Steve. Â It's a stretch to describe Steve as a PL REGULAR at the beginning of the season, but as Richie and Birks had no PL experience whatsoever at the start of the season, perhaps I don't have a grasp of the meaning of REGULAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 What I mean is they had regular PL spots! Â I'm not begrudging them anything cause all 3 of them, the Worrals and Birks have deserved their PL spots through showing talent on track combined with the desire to make it! Â This then goes back to what I was saying earlier - you've got guys riding at NL level who've been around longer than 3 combined yet are nowhere near a PL spot which means in all probability they'll not make it at that level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) What I mean is they had regular PL spots! Â I'm not begrudging them anything cause all 3 of them, the Worrals and Birks have deserved their PL spots through showing talent on track combined with the desire to make it! Â This then goes back to what I was saying earlier - you've got guys riding at NL level who've been around longer than 3 combined yet are nowhere near a PL spot which means in all probability they'll not make it at that level! Â I think you are being a bit unfair there. Nobody denies that the aforementioned riders are good riders but they ae not the only ones in the NL of that standard, there is a long list actually, They were all given PL places last season Richie without even competing in the NL for a season. They were never dropped and were given a fair amount of support morally if not financially. I would say they are the for-runners of what can happen when a brit is supported and given the opportunities. There are some riders who have been around in the NL for too long because they haven't been given the opportunity of anything else. Â It does very much sound like teams are turning a corner with Stoke, Mildenahall Poss Scunthorpe and I assume others who are looking to breed homegrown riders. It wont happen overnight but if the riders keep coming through then the future is looking bright. Edited January 16, 2012 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Â Â It does very much sound like teams are turning a corner with Stoke, Mildenahall Poss Scunthorpe and I assume others who are looking to breed homegrown riders. It wont happen overnight but if the riders keep coming through then the future is looking bright. Â Â Whos Poss?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Whos Poss?? Â Possibly Scunthorpe. As if you didnt know. Â Well I have missed Scunthorpe's aim whether it is to provide riders to sell i.e revenue or whether it is to filter them into the Scorpions. Mildenahll and Stoke have said thet they are going to filter them through to senior teams. I imagine Stoke are going to enter the PL again at some point and Mildenhall have Ipswich. Â Thats my understanding anaywyay. I'm sure you will tell me if I am wrong. Edited January 17, 2012 by TMW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Possibly Scunthorpe. As if you didnt know. Â Well I have missed Scunthorpe's aim whether it is to provide riders to sell i.e revenue or whether it is to filter them into the Scorpions. Mildenahll and Stoke have said thet they are going to filter them through to senior teams. I imagine Stoke are going to enter the PL again at some point and Mildenhall have Ipswich. Â Thats my understanding anaywyay. I'm sure you will tell me if I am wrong. Â So you are saying,in your post that Scunny have possibly turned the corner and are now starting to breed home grown riders???? Â Would one be so kind as to tell me what Scunny have been doing for the past 4 or 5 years??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 However much a promoter wants to filter riders to his senior league, It is the rider themselves who decide where they want to ride. Don't you think Scunny would have loved to have kept Tai, Josh etc.( I know I would ) I imagine its Promoters who tempt them away from their club by offering better deals. The point is that Scunny give these lads their first opportunity to get onto the ladder and thats something which no one can deny. Other NL league teams are quick to sign our riders so as far as I see it.....Its job done! and Mr Godfrey gets his just rewards in loan fees. I say keep this going Mr Godfrey its a system which has proved to be successful .At least we have a flow of youngsters on the climb up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 So you are saying,in your post that Scunny have possibly turned the corner and are now starting to breed home grown riders???? Â Yep thought so. Maybe I didn't word it quite how I meant it. I was just pointing out the different approaches and how more teams are now focusing their approach. maybe I should have lost the 'possibly' Â Â However much a promoter wants to filter riders to his senior league, It is the rider themselves who decide where they want to ride. Don't you think Scunny would have loved to have kept Tai, Josh etc.( I know I would ) I imagine its Promoters who tempt them away from their club by offering better deals. The point is that Scunny give these lads their first opportunity to get onto the ladder and thats something which no one can deny. Other NL league teams are quick to sign our riders so as far as I see it.....Its job done! and Mr Godfrey gets his just rewards in loan fees. I say keep this going Mr Godfrey its a system which has proved to be successful .At least we have a flow of youngsters on the climb up! Â The only thing with them going off and being owned (transfered) or loaned by other teams is they can get lost in the system. Now I wouldn't like to spark a massive debate on this it is just my perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted January 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yep thought so. Maybe I didn't word it quite how I meant it. I was just pointing out the different approaches and how more teams are now focusing their approach. Â Whats the Colts up to TMW,its all very quiet on there team this year?? Are they running??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Whats the Colts up to TMW,its all very quiet on there team this year?? Are they running??? Â I know that is why I have had to hijack all the other threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Whats the Colts up to TMW,its all very quiet on there team this year?? Are they running??? Â Not running in 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Will be interesting to see Scunthorpes last 2 riders, I am very pleased we have gone with some good new talent but I am slightly worried that we will get absolutely hammered, we have 23 pts to play with for the last 2 riders, I hope rob's finances allow us to get a good number 1 to nurture & assist these young lads.  Dont get me wrong I suspect we lose money on the NL & it is run to bring on talent, I am very pleased we even have a team running this year  Who would I like as no.1? no idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Great to see Steve Worrall back as no1 for the Saints  Top signing,  http://www.scunthorp...rt_from=&ucat=7& Edited February 2, 2012 by montie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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